"Sub-$100 Wii-like console" in GamePro

[nathanallan]

Does anyone here read the magazine? On page 22 of Sep 2008's issue, Sid Shuman *speculates* that Atari is getting ready to launch another console. I quote:

 

File this one under "Pure Speculation," but I think Atari may be planning to release a new game console. Exhibit A: Next to Nintendo, Atari has the most recognizable brand in gaming.Everyone knows that "Atari" stands for simple, fun games. Exhibit B: Phil Harrison left Sony to head up Atari. Harrison knows the console business from his Playstation years, and would be a huge resource for Atari. Exhibit C: Atari has pledged to not fund any more hardcore, big budget games, pointing to some big changes in the future of the company. Releasing a sub-$100 Wii-like console-- complete with new iterations of mainstream classics such as Centipede and Missile Command-- would make perfect sense for Atari. No hard facts to report yet, but don't be surprised if this subject pops up again.

 

Well, isn't this interesting? A cameo appearance of the Flashback 3 in a mainstream mag. Nice. I hope that Sid's speculation is correct. A Wii-like console is definitely possible, given the Chintendo Vii, and the FB3 is long overdue. BTW, I typed this from the magazine, I didn't find it online anywhere, in effort to bring this to light. I have had the issue for about a week now, and noone has mentioned this. Again, interesting. Sid says not to be surprised if it comes up again. I hope it comes up lots more.

 

Nathan

[Bill Loguidice]

I don't know. It's never good when a financially strapped company tries a hardware launch. It never ever works out well. I think Atari would be best served by releasing a sub-$100 Atari 8-bit computer clone, maybe with some enhanced specs (but still compatible) as possible. Basically whatever they can do for under $100. I think it would be the most interesting angle - a casual game system that you can program yourself (in BASIC primarily, naturally).

 

At the same time, if it were just a weak game system that required an entirely new set of games, meaning games that need to be developed with no other angle going for it other than "cheap", I think it's doomed. Even at less than $100, it needs an angle, because for all intents and purposes you can get a PS2 for less than $100, and they're still making new games for the thing (and the depth and breadth of the total library is pretty much unmatched). The point is, it would REQUIRE a hook, and the hook would have to be a significant differentiating factor. That's why to me, even though it sounds a bit crazy, an easily programmable casual game system is the only way to go, and that's assuming Atari would have the financial fortitude to produce several million units and legitimately support the thing for multiple years. Perhaps unsigned code could be run on the limited spec, while only signed (licensed) code could be run on the higher spec. This way you'd have dual development without crippling the commercial possibilities.

[TwinChargers]

I wonder what they mean by "Wii-like"? Are they gonna use similar technology to what the Wii uses, or would they create a system that has a very broad appeal that will capture the casual gamer market? Would you be happy with a bunch of Atari ports with significant graphical and sound upgrade on a whole new system? I know I wouldn't mind that, but I'm not sure if everyone else here would.

[Bill Loguidice]

I wonder what they mean by "Wii-like"? Are they gonna use similar technology to what the Wii uses, or would they create a system that has a very broad appeal that will capture the casual gamer market? Would you be happy with a bunch of Atari ports with significant graphical and sound upgrade on a whole new system? I know I wouldn't mind that, but I'm not sure if everyone else here would.

 

Well, to my mind, it would be suicide to try to go the motion-controlled route, a la Wii, since every system before it that tried that failed, even cheap TV game ones, and even at <$100, it still wouldn't attract people who would rather have a Wii (kind of like Apple's iPod versus every other MP3 player). More likely, in this case, Wii-like means targeting the non-gamer or casual gamer with a system that doesn't feature state-of-the-art specs, but does feature accessible controls and less involved games.

 

Also, I'm not so sure I'd be down for Atari ports with graphical and sound upgrades. I already get that on Xbox Live Arcade and the similar setups on the PS3 and Wii, not to mention select classic compilations. There would have to be something more to it, like the simple programming aspect I mentioned or some other compelling hook. Just having the Atari name and some ports or even original code is not a compelling selling strategy outside of the $20 - $40 fixed game price range.

[TwinChargers]

I wonder what they mean by "Wii-like"? Are they gonna use similar technology to what the Wii uses, or would they create a system that has a very broad appeal that will capture the casual gamer market? Would you be happy with a bunch of Atari ports with significant graphical and sound upgrade on a whole new system? I know I wouldn't mind that, but I'm not sure if everyone else here would.

 

Well, to my mind, it would be suicide to try to go the motion-controlled route, a la Wii, since every system before it that tried that failed, even cheap TV game ones, and even at <$100, it still wouldn't attract people who would rather have a Wii (kind of like Apple's iPod versus every other MP3 player). More likely, in this case, Wii-like means targeting the non-gamer or casual gamer with a system that doesn't feature state-of-the-art specs, but does feature accessible controls and less involved games.

 

Also, I'm not so sure I'd be down for Atari ports with graphical and sound upgrades. I already get that on Xbox Live Arcade and the similar setups on the PS3 and Wii, not to mention select classic compilations. There would have to be something more to it, like the simple programming aspect I mentioned or some other compelling hook. Just having the Atari name and some ports or even original code is not a compelling selling strategy outside of the $20 - $40 fixed game price range.

 

I'm guessing it would have to be some other compelling hook then, cause other than a few hundred of us on here, I'm guessing there are very few people out there that want to program there own game/system. Programming, even in its most simplistic form, probably isn't fun and is more than likely difficult for a casual/non-gamer.

[Tickled_Pink]

I have a feeling that this is a non-starter. Atari may be one of the best known brands in gaming, but it's not a brand known for its successes - and most of today's young gamers probably don't even know that Atari ever created their own consoles, despite the Flashback consoles. So IMO the Atari brand counts for very little in today's marketplace.

 

Creating a Wii-like console wouldn't be that difficult, given that Nintendo have already created one and people now have a good idea of how it works. However, this could lead to non-stop legal battles between Atari and Nintendo since the latter are sure to complain of patent infringements. It's difficult to see how there won't be any technological crossover.

 

Would love to see Atari take the plunge and re-enter the hardware market but I don't know if the market is ready for yet another player.

[Bill Loguidice]

I'm guessing it would have to be some other compelling hook then, cause other than a few hundred of us on here, I'm guessing there are very few people out there that want to program there own game/system. Programming, even in its most simplistic form, probably isn't fun and is more than likely difficult for a casual/non-gamer.

 

Anything is possible, but the hook wouldn't be "you can program", but "you can make your own games". How that's actually accomplished, be it something BASIC or BASIC-like or something more menu-driven would be irrelevant, really.

[Bill Loguidice]

I have a feeling that this is a non-starter. Atari may be one of the best known brands in gaming, but it's not a brand known for its successes - and most of today's young gamers probably don't even know that Atari ever created their own consoles, despite the Flashback consoles. So IMO the Atari brand counts for very little in today's marketplace.

 

Agreed. The brand has been watered down over the years considerably. However, that doesn't mean that truly thoughtful use of what amounts to an IP couldn't bring it back.

 

Creating a Wii-like console wouldn't be that difficult, given that Nintendo have already created one and people now have a good idea of how it works. However, this could lead to non-stop legal battles between Atari and Nintendo since the latter are sure to complain of patent infringements. It's difficult to see how there won't be any technological crossover.

 

That's a non-issue, as there have been plenty of Wii-like consoles and devices before the Wii. The actual Wii implementation is protected, but not the use of the technology or concepts themselves. The real question is why mimick the Wii? I don't see a good reason for that, not with the stakes that Atari could never ever meet.

 

Would love to see Atari take the plunge and re-enter the hardware market but I don't know if the market is ready for yet another player.

 

I think a lot of us believe that there is a place for a new console or handheld with realistic expectations. No one can ever take on Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft unless they had deep, deep pockets and proper publisher/developer backing (and there are very few global corporations that can say that), but I think there's a niche there of at least a few million system sales and modest profit with the right approach/model as an alternative to what the big three offer.

[kroogur]

For perhaps a more successful endeavor i see a handheld unit roughly the size and shape of the PSP, It would come pre loaded with every 2600,5200 and 7800 game that would be the hook for the retro/vintage crowd. And here is the cool part...no carts or discs! The way it works is you purchase the games either as a digital download or storebought, then you connect to your computer and download the games to the system! It should be called Go! and depending on game size it will either support a full version or special versions of popular games.

[Atari5200]

Would you be happy with a bunch of Atari ports with significant graphical and sound upgrade on a whole new system?

 

not if they end up like the PSP Atari Anthology remixed or whatever it is, where most of the games are terrible.

[Tickled_Pink]

For perhaps a more successful endeavor i see a handheld unit roughly the size and shape of the PSP, It would come pre loaded with every 2600,5200 and 7800 game that would be the hook for the retro/vintage crowd. And here is the cool part...no carts or discs! The way it works is you purchase the games either as a digital download or storebought, then you connect to your computer and download the games to the system! It should be called Go! and depending on game size it will either support a full version or special versions of popular games.

Or it could be called a Nokia.

 

Seriously it needs to do something nothing else does. The only thing that's never been done right is VR, but that would cost way in excess of $100.

[Bill Loguidice]

For perhaps a more successful endeavor i see a handheld unit roughly the size and shape of the PSP, It would come pre loaded with every 2600,5200 and 7800 game that would be the hook for the retro/vintage crowd. And here is the cool part...no carts or discs! The way it works is you purchase the games either as a digital download or storebought, then you connect to your computer and download the games to the system! It should be called Go! and depending on game size it will either support a full version or special versions of popular games.

Or it could be called a Nokia.

 

Seriously it needs to do something nothing else does. The only thing that's never been done right is VR, but that would cost way in excess of $100.

 

I have to agree that a handheld is not the answer. Also, with quality color handhelds that play classic games selling for around $30 or less, the target price point would be way too high. Again, for me, it would have to revive the idea of the console computer, but I know I'm in the minority. I also know that I'm not wrong about some type of Wii knockoff being a miserable idea and a handheld being too little too late unless it came out at a very cheap price.

[Tickled_Pink]

For perhaps a more successful endeavor i see a handheld unit roughly the size and shape of the PSP, It would come pre loaded with every 2600,5200 and 7800 game that would be the hook for the retro/vintage crowd. And here is the cool part...no carts or discs! The way it works is you purchase the games either as a digital download or storebought, then you connect to your computer and download the games to the system! It should be called Go! and depending on game size it will either support a full version or special versions of popular games.

Or it could be called a Nokia.

 

Seriously it needs to do something nothing else does. The only thing that's never been done right is VR, but that would cost way in excess of $100.

 

I have to agree that a handheld is not the answer. Also, with quality color handhelds that play classic games selling for around $30 or less, the target price point would be way too high. Again, for me, it would have to revive the idea of the console computer, but I know I'm in the minority. I also know that I'm not wrong about some type of Wii knockoff being a miserable idea and a handheld being too little too late unless it came out at a very cheap price.

In the minority maybe, but certainly not alone. A console computer is pretty much the missing link these days. Been thinking for some time that it's about time we had another. A problem then is educating the buying public why they should buy this new home computer rather than a low-cost PC, or a 360 with a keyboard.

[Bill Loguidice]

In the minority maybe, but certainly not alone. A console computer is pretty much the missing link these days. Been thinking for some time that it's about time we had another. A problem then is educating the buying public why they should buy this new home computer rather than a low-cost PC, or a 360 with a keyboard.

 

Well, first and foremost, the focus would have to be purely on the simple console aspects. It plays "Missile Command", it plays "Centipede", etc. The typical, "The Fun is Back!" marketing with "Fun for the Whole Family", "Pick up and Play", etc. They may not even want to include a USB keyboard with it, but it should support the plugging in of one as well as an official one with specific hot keys. In short, it should support programmability, but only with an extra step required by the user so it's always in a default console mode. Then the secondary advertisement would be "create your own games!" and "design your own games the easy way!", etc. They could offer different programming environments, one where the creator drags and drops common objects and gives them properties right through to manual development.

 

The key difference between a low cost PC or a 360 or a PS3, would be price, simplicity and fun. You can only really program directly on a low cost PC and even then the options are varied and confusing for the unitiated. By using the closed model of a low cost console, all of those issues are eliminated. It could definitely work, but it's not likely what they're going after. Knowing Atari of any vintage, but particularly today, they probably think there's some type of even lower end Wii market, which of course most of us know is insane. There's a reason why offerings like GoGo Gamer, XaviX XaviXPort and others never took off...

[TwinChargers]

What if it was basically a 2600 that had the capabilities of Xbox Live and you could play people from around the world on any Atari or homebrew game you so desire? Maybe slight graphical updates and sound upgrades though, cause that is very important to the consumers nowadays. Perhaps this would be best suited for portability and have it work through wi-fi technology. Thoughts?

[Bill Loguidice]

What if it was basically a 2600 that had the capabilities of Xbox Live and you could play people from around the world on any Atari or homebrew game you so desire? Maybe slight graphical updates and sound upgrades though, cause that is very important to the consumers nowadays. Perhaps this would be best suited for portability and have it work through wi-fi technology. Thoughts?

 

You have to consider infrastructure costs for something like that. Also, if Xbox Live were that easy, Sony and Nintendo would already have matched it. As it is, all three offer very different solutions to the same problem. Atari is in no position to handle any of that.

 

Certainly something like a connected classic wi-fi handheld would be nifty, but does not seem in the realm of possibility to me. If something like a new sub-$100 console from Atari were in fact a possibility, we've got to think in terms of minimal cost to the company post development and release of the platform. They don't have the resources to require and sustain something tied to an online infrastructure, so it would likely have to be offline only, save for some type of digital download store if they didn't go the packaged game route and traditional retail outlets post system sale.

[Atari5200]

it can shut down it's servers for D&D online and use it for a system??

[Bill Loguidice]

it can shut down it's servers for D&D online and use it for a system??

 

Again, where is the money coming from? You can't release a cheap system targeted to a more casual market and expect them to pay some type of monthly fee. It's contradictory if you ask me. You push a cheap system, <$100, cheap games, <$20 and an interesting hook or two (simpler, fun games, maybe approachable programmability), you can't then further expect any type of subscription revenue. You'd have to bank on low production costs and low "maintenance" costs to go along with fairly low margins, particularly for an already financially unstable company. You're banking on your name as one of your great assets and being in a profitable niche that the big boys don't care about and a smaller company can relatively speaking thrive in.

[nathanallan]

Good discussion! And to think I was near asleep when I typed it up.

 

The programmable console sounds really nice to me, and to add to it having a small software package that you can load on your pc then make the games, THEN load them to the console, that would be a nice hook for me. Using templates and pre-made stuff, with the option of making your own. Um, did you say that already, Bill? I skimmed through the thread.

 

Nathan

[TwinChargers]

I'm just afraid that the desire for a programmable console is a very small niche in the console market. Of course a lot of people here on AtariAge would love such an item, but do you think that the target market, the casual/non-gamer, wants the same thing? Heck, I like Atari and its history and the memories it brings back, but I myself am not as technologically advanced as many others on here and I could see where a programmable Atari console would scare a lot of people off.

 

I'm not sure what they should do. It sounds as if they need to rely on there rich past (Centipede, Tempest, Breakout, etc.) and bring it to the modern day offering up a new experience that isn't offered by its competitors. Thats very difficult. Would it be cartridge or CD based? Would you download games online? What would be the biggest draw to get people to buy this? I know online play is difficult, or impossible, in Bills words, but I think that that would be key. What kind of market are they reaching for? Would this be seen as a toy, or would this be found in a display case in an electronics department next to the PS3's, Xbox 360's and the Wii's? Theres a lot of questions that need to be answered. I too hope this topic is kept alive and more info comes out.

[Gregory DG]

Sounds more like wishful thinking on the author's part. Trying to shoehorn the FB3/Portable into a new console. Someone thinking that they have a "scoop."

 

I don't expect to see a new "Wii-like" console for ~$100 from Atari anytime soon.

[Bill Loguidice]

I'm just afraid that the desire for a programmable console is a very small niche in the console market. Of course a lot of people here on AtariAge would love such an item, but do you think that the target market, the casual/non-gamer, wants the same thing? Heck, I like Atari and its history and the memories it brings back, but I myself am not as technologically advanced as many others on here and I could see where a programmable Atari console would scare a lot of people off.

 

See, that's the problem, I'm not talking about anything intimidating. I'm not talking about programming as usual or programming like the old days, though it would be delightful if that were an option. This could in its simplest form be a type of construction set and in its mid-tier form a BASIC-like language and in its advanced form full machine language (or C). People haven't changed, the market has just grown. There are still tons of people who want to program, but are either intimidated by the options or just don't have the time. Something simple and accessible could tap into that. In the old days, we used to love to program in BASIC, even if some of us didn't really understand the logic. The reason why that has been a lost art is that something like BASIC no longer comes with every computer. Yes, there are plenty of options now to create your own games, from click and place systems to fully programmable environments. However, there's nothing like there was in the old days. That's what I'm saying could be tapped into. Self creation is a great hook I think, particularly if it can be tiered to ANYONE, and I think that could be quite easy. Maybe have the console come with something like "Game Construction Kit", a la Pinball Construction Set of old. Something that simple. And then offer more advanced options for those really interested in it.

 

I'm not sure what they should do. It sounds as if they need to rely on there rich past (Centipede, Tempest, Breakout, etc.) and bring it to the modern day offering up a new experience that isn't offered by its competitors. Thats very difficult. Would it be cartridge or CD based? Would you download games online? What would be the biggest draw to get people to buy this? I know online play is difficult, or impossible, in Bills words, but I think that that would be key. What kind of market are they reaching for? Would this be seen as a toy, or would this be found in a display case in an electronics department next to the PS3's, Xbox 360's and the Wii's? Theres a lot of questions that need to be answered. I too hope this topic is kept alive and more info comes out.

 

Nothing is impossible, I'm just saying that the more sophisticated you get, particularly with hosting and running servers and online infrastructures, the more costs are involved and the more you're getting away from the casual audience you'd be targeting. It's also important to keep in mind that while they cost more, there are plenty of casual style and classic style games on Xbox Live, PSN and Virtual Console, not to mention every other site on the Web via a computer. The only thing that would work would have to be cheap, obviously play off of Atari nostalgia and offer a unique feature or two.

 

If I were running Atari, I would do just what I said, release something like a roughly $50 extended Atari 8-bit computer style system with an extended feature set that comes with nothing more than two two button joysticks/gamepads, play up its classic-style approachable and fun games, and play up the fact that you could create your own games. I would then offer game packs to add onto the thing. That would hit that imaginary niche between throwaway TV games and regular consoles. Of course you'd need to deal with homebrew software pushing out commercial offerings, so there would have to be something in place to deal with that, either by having an APX-type of setup or crippling the feature-set for unsigned/homebrew code.

 

EDIT: And by the way, the closer the rumor is to a $100 system or anything particularly advanced like a Wii-like clone, the less likely we should believe it. The only real way for Atari to make it going forward is to release simpler and cheaper classic-style games for all the major systems that already exist. They're already licensed for all major platforms. There's no reason to gamble on hardware of any type at this point, though it would be nice if they could.

Edited August 18, 2008 by Bill_Loguidice

[Wickeycolumbus]

I really hope this happens! I think that it would be best if it was cd bassed, if the games were built in, that would be a total turn off, as well as if you had to download the games.

[Atari5200]

here is what you have to keep in mind, especially with a portable. Don't forget the GP2X is already out and in full force, yet nobody really knows it's there. A programmable system really is only going to appeal to a small group of people. Was the GP32 successful? Not really, it really depends on who you ask, and is the GP2x successful? Again, it's all in who you ask.

 

Now Gamepark, a South Korean company, you know doesn't have the deep pockets, it did rely on some programming for their military for money, but still, they were able to release 2 systems so far, with the GP32 being officially released in Europe as well as Asia. So it's been proven you don't need gazillions of dollars, if it would have been the Atari 32 or Atari2x, instead of no name Gamepark, well, i think you get the point. With it being Atari, it should considerably help a new systems chances regardless of what they decided to do.

[TwinChargers]

I really hope this happens! I think that it would be best if it was cd bassed, if the games were built in, that would be a total turn off, as well as if you had to download the games.

 

I agree with it not having the games built-in. Not only does that leave the consumer with no other options than what is right there, but it hurts Atari for not making more revenue after the initial "console" sale. Downloadable content also has its negatives, such as the group of those without internet capabilities have no options. Disc based seems like the best option. I could see them using the smaller discs like the ones used in the Gamecube and PSP's.

 

Another question I have, would you want this to play the original versions of older games? Do you think that they would update everything? You'd almost have to. If it is indeed disc based, theres a lot of wasted disc space if your gonna put a game like Indy 500 on a mini-CD. Perhaps they could add a whole ton of new levels and options, interviews with the game developers, and of course the actual 2600 port. If it was a game that had an arcade port that could also be added to the disc.