"Sub-$100 Wii-like console" in GamePro

[Shawn]

Nobody wants a console Joe Blow can program crap games for. That was over a long ass time ago. Another flashback? Sure it will sell. A 800 with DOS? Nope, not gonna sell to Soccer Mom.

[Bill Loguidice]

Nobody wants a console Joe Blow can program crap games for. That was over a long ass time ago. Another flashback? Sure it will sell. A 800 with DOS? Nope, not gonna sell to Soccer Mom.

 

Where's the proof of that? Customization and constructing things are popular niches, particularly in regards to technology, so there's no reason to think that something with reasonable mainstream backing at a low price point couldn't tap into that. And the games don't have to be crap with access to the right libraries and reasonable creation tools. Again, there was a market for it before and the only reasons why that market stopped being served were technological complexity and being more profitable to serve the masses who preferred being users to producers.

 

Another Flashback, around $40 or less, would work too, as you say, but it would likely have to be something other than Atari 2600 games to break a million units in sales again and then you're getting into unproven territory if you don't have a recognizable library or association. Either that or of course hit that price point with a handheld, which would certainly be doable and would in all likelihood move at least as many units as the prior Flashbacks.

[Noelio]

Centipede / missile command etc.... YAWN! Tired classics that I'm almost sick of hearing about. If I hear a "Tempest 2010" release I think I might gag. don't get me wrong, the old franchises still make me smile but the past success of those titles will never be enjoyed again unless something ridiculous happens to the whole gameplay experience. However, I see potential with Missile command given the renewed cold war and the ABM controversy.

 

"Missile Command:ABM" could be a good working title. The gameplay dynamics would have to be completely overhauled and incorporated to a combination of 3d, board style (command & conquer, sims) and strategy/mmorpg. That might raise a few eyebrows but for status quo, its better left on the original systems as is.

 

It would be neat if Activision bought out Atari and used the brand in a system that they develop for. Guitar Hero sure could be ported to a new system. A nice twist would be to have MIDI ports incorporated to plug in roland midi ready vdrums and vguitar!!! Sweet stuff that would be, playing real notes on real performance instruments. I believe Gvox already attempted something like this for guitar back in the late 90's but hey.

 

I'd love to see a flashback 3 or a new XL/XE/ST based system system. Perhaps a Java console/computer or support for all the dorky java games on top of Atari offerings would fly well too.

 

I'm fantasizing again I see!

[Tickled_Pink]

Nobody wants a console Joe Blow can program crap games for. That was over a long ass time ago. Another flashback? Sure it will sell. A 800 with DOS? Nope, not gonna sell to Soccer Mom.

Already done and it's here. It's called an Xbox360.

[Bill Loguidice]

Nobody wants a console Joe Blow can program crap games for. That was over a long ass time ago. Another flashback? Sure it will sell. A 800 with DOS? Nope, not gonna sell to Soccer Mom.

Already done and it's here. It's called an Xbox360.

 

 

The 360 is a great retrogaming, programmable platform, but the barrier to entry is both price and complexity. Once you get the system, the XBLA subscription and the XNA license, you're talking about 5 times the pricing discussed in the rumor. While it's a relatively friendly programming environment, it's still not the everyman type of environment or option that was the genesis of the suggestion for the hook of the cheap Atari console.

[Reaperman]

well I'll probably buy anything that says atari on it--but I learned not to have very high hopes for them long, long ago. I don't think atari will release new hardwae though. It's a stupid idea especially since a lot of its fans (me) are getting really sick of 2600 clones. Actually the correct way to phrase it is that I never liked 2600 or its clones to begin with, and I'm getting tired of buying them for the joysticks.

 

I do see a place in the world for new low-powered hardware though. Something without fans or optical drives--something simple that just works forever. By low power, I'm still talking about a 32-bit or more machine which is happier in HighDef than on standard def. To fly, a budget system is going to have to provide an experience that the other systems do poorly--but do it with extremely thick polish to make up for the lower power.

 

As far as brands go, I'd rather see the SNK or Sammy name thrown on a budget home console. Of course 'budget' has only come into SNK's vocabulary recently, and 'Home Console' has never appeared on Sammy's radar--though they do have some nice hardware for it.

 

of course if people wanted to program (which they don't) there's always the xgamestation/hydra which start $129/$199 assembled. IIRC the last 'mainstream' console that boasted programmability was the Cybiko Extreme. That didn't do very well at all.

Edited August 22, 2008 by Reaperman

[MrBeefy]

When I think Wii like I think of the virtual console and being able to download old games on a new system, which to me would be a hook.

[Bill Loguidice]

of course if people wanted to program (which they don't) there's always the xgamestation/hydra which start $129/$199 assembled. IIRC the last 'mainstream' console that boasted programmability was the Cybiko Extreme. That didn't do very well at all.

 

I have a few of the Cybiko models as part of my collection, and, while they could be programmed, that was the farthest thing from the marketing campaign, which was essentially a teen communication device, something that became unnecessary with the rapid rise of feature-rich cell phones.

 

I'm an XGameStation supporter and have been from the beginning, but that's also not what I'm talking about here. That's for a truly hardcore niche and not really a platform that will ever receive much support. What those XGameStation products are are educational devices, nothing more. Some are designed to show you how to build the hardware, while others are designed to teach you the fundamentals of programming and beyond. That's the furthest thing from what I was suggesting, which was a reasonably mainstream game-centric platform that ANYONE would be able to program for, i.e., make their own games starting with a simple construction set and then progressing on if they so chose to one of the more advanced options. The bottom line again is the "hook", and it has to be something more than rehashing the same games at this point.

[Bill Loguidice]

When I think Wii like I think of the virtual console and being able to download old games on a new system, which to me would be a hook.

 

Again, with XBLA being the original poster child for this and the option available and similarly popular on Wii and PSN, what benefit would there to release a cheaper, less capable console that did the same thing? Price is irrelevant in this case, as all of those consoles already have plenty of mass market share, particularly when the numbers are merged. Something very different has to be offered, be it a $30 color portable or the cheap, programmable do-it-yourself console that also had those types of games.

Edited August 22, 2008 by Bill_Loguidice

[Atari5200]

and some of the Atari re-makes have been less than good in my opinion. So that's something else they would have to contend with. You want to sell me a system to play remixed atari games when the ones I can already buy are crappy???? That's a hard sale. I would think the system would need totally new games with some old ones thrown in here and there.

[Reaperman]

What those XGameStation products are are educational devices, nothing more. Some are designed to show you how to build the hardware, while others are designed to teach you the fundamentals of programming and beyond. That's the furthest thing from what I was suggesting, which was a reasonably mainstream game-centric platform that ANYONE would be able to program for, i.e., make their own games starting with a simple construction set and then progressing on if they so chose to one of the more advanced options. The bottom line again is the "hook", and it has to be something more than rehashing the same games at this point.

There should be more things like that. I used to have *so much fun* with bill budge's pinball construction set, or the text adventure maker back when I was 4-7, and there just aren't enough programs like that. Hell it's probably what got me into logo, atari basic, and eventually down the long track to becomming a .net developer.

 

it really gets people thinking--at least about logic and provides huge and quick rewards for even a little determination. Come to think of it, the user element is what keeps me liking my a8, when I could care less if every 2600 in the world explodes.

 

for modern equivalents, RPG maker is around these days, but I tried one and it was so *awful* and hard to use I'd rather just start from scratch--there's no point to something like that. The learning curve was brutal.

Edited August 22, 2008 by Reaperman

[Bill Loguidice]

There should be more things like that. I used to have *so much fun* with bill budge's pinball construction set, or the text adventure maker back when I was 4-7, and there just aren't enough programs like that. Hell it's probably what got me into logo, atari basic, and eventually down the long track to eventually becomming a .net developer.

 

it really gets people thinking--at least about logic and provides huge and quick rewards for even a little determination. Sure RPG maker is around these days, but I tried one and it was so *awful* and hard to use I'd rather just start from scratch--there's no point to something like that.

 

I do like my polished 2d gaming. I think it's a great idea.

 

I highly recommend you check out Game Maker: http://www.yoyogames.com/make and Games Factory: http://www.clickteam.com/eng/index.php

[A Sprite]

How do they make a profit? If it's mass market, it requires strong games up front. If it's an entry way for new programmers to share their ideas, that means lots of retro remakes violating copyright laws, and quality control issues...

 

I'd love to buy into the dream, but it looks like the crash.

 

What makes it a good purchase for non-programmers?

[Bill Loguidice]

How do they make a profit? If it's mass market, it requires strong games up front. If it's an entry way for new programmers to share their ideas, that means lots of retro remakes violating copyright laws, and quality control issues...

 

I'd love to buy into the dream, but it looks like the crash.

 

What makes it a good purchase for non-programmers?

 

The same way they made a profit on the two Flashback units. Treat it like a TV game and unlike Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft, consider profit from the margin on unit sales. The difference with the hypothetical "Flashback 3" is that they can sell more games for the thing to make additional money. And again, while you allow people to make their own games, you don't necessarily allow them to sell it or utilize the full system power or require a cut for each sale or what-have-you. Obviously that part would need to be worked out, but the point is there are a lot of options where you can have the best of both worlds - commercial game sales and homebrew development.

 

And it wouldn't necessarily be a good purchase for non-programmers, but you're selling partly to a niche into nostalgia anyway. The big thrust for this particular unit in the imaginary scenario would be the "construction kit" scenario. It's one area of the market that has worked in the past but has long since been abandoned.

 

Ultimately, the idea would be like the Flashback units, sell a few million systems at best and then try to continue to eek a modest, yet sustainable revenue from low volume game sales. You'd essentially be taking the TV Game concept and applying cartridge-like ability to the concept to try and keep it as something more than a disposable $20 unit. Again, keeping expectations modest and risk low, it could work, especially if the programming idea took off, creating a brand new modern niche. That could turn a few million system sales into double that if it actually took off. And yes, obviously to reach that point, you'd have to be sure you repackage yet again the go-to classics, like Pac-Man, Space Invaders, Centipede, etc., names people would just know and buy on an impulse. Certainly pricing of all this is critical as is targeted advertising.

[TwinChargers]

How do they make a profit? If it's mass market, it requires strong games up front. If it's an entry way for new programmers to share their ideas, that means lots of retro remakes violating copyright laws, and quality control issues...

 

I'd love to buy into the dream, but it looks like the crash.

 

What makes it a good purchase for non-programmers?

 

And it wouldn't necessarily be a good purchase for non-programmers, but you're selling partly to a niche into nostalgia anyway.

 

That line alone is the reason a system like this won't ever be made. If your a struggling company that is trying to make it back into the mainstream marketplace, the last thing you want to do is sell to a niche market. Its time to put this "programmable" Atari idea to rest. There is a reason that there are no simple programmable consoles around, because there are very few that actually want them. I think people want another well made Flashback. Looking at the sales of the previous FB console, they clearly are on the right track. Make it with a cartridge port or some other way to get new games at a low cost, (which will still be profit for Atari), and thats probably the best way to go.

[Wickeycolumbus]

I think that the best thing would be if it was some what like the mattel hyperscan, but with good games and 3rd party support (and of course none of those stupid cards). This should not be a flashback console, but entirely new hardware. Maybe the jaguar 2 hardware can be updated and released as this new console.

[Bill Loguidice]

I think that the best thing would be if it was some what like the mattel hyperscan, but with good games and 3rd party support (and of course none of those stupid cards). This should not be a flashback console, but entirely new hardware. Maybe the jaguar 2 hardware can be updated and released as this new console.

 

Again, where's the market or potential market for that? You don't want to compete against superios MS, Nintendo and Sony offerings, even on price (and free flash offerings on the PC?). It just won't work. Why have a sub-standard Atari-branded console when you can half the "real thing" for just a little more. Where's the hook, the justification for its existence?

[Bill Loguidice]

How do they make a profit? If it's mass market, it requires strong games up front. If it's an entry way for new programmers to share their ideas, that means lots of retro remakes violating copyright laws, and quality control issues...

 

I'd love to buy into the dream, but it looks like the crash.

 

What makes it a good purchase for non-programmers?

 

And it wouldn't necessarily be a good purchase for non-programmers, but you're selling partly to a niche into nostalgia anyway.

 

That line alone is the reason a system like this won't ever be made. If your a struggling company that is trying to make it back into the mainstream marketplace, the last thing you want to do is sell to a niche market. Its time to put this "programmable" Atari idea to rest. There is a reason that there are no simple programmable consoles around, because there are very few that actually want them. I think people want another well made Flashback. Looking at the sales of the previous FB console, they clearly are on the right track. Make it with a cartridge port or some other way to get new games at a low cost, (which will still be profit for Atari), and thats probably the best way to go.

 

A niche of several million units can still be a profitable one. You're not going against the tens of millions of the other guys. The first two Flashbacks were niche products, but successful ones. If there was a Flashback 3 with a cartridge port, the only way for it to succeed profitably would be to mimick a pre-existing architecture like a 5200 or Atari 8-bit to leverage pre-existing (meaning already developed) games, and also so you could further cash in on the same nostalgia factor from the first two Flashback systems.

[Retro Rogue]

Can't weigh in on to much discussed here for obvious reasons. But I will say that a cartridge port is not an option, as has been explained plenty of times before by Curt and my self. Media card slot, possibly. But not a cartridge slot.

[mars242]

For perhaps a more successful endeavor i see a handheld unit roughly the size and shape of the PSP, It would come pre loaded with every 2600,5200 and 7800 game that would be the hook for the retro/vintage crowd. And here is the cool part...no carts or discs! The way it works is you purchase the games either as a digital download or storebought, then you connect to your computer and download the games to the system! It should be called Go! and depending on game size it will either support a full version or special versions of popular games.

Or it could be called a Nokia.

 

Seriously it needs to do something nothing else does. The only thing that's never been done right is VR, but that would cost way in excess of $100.

 

As far as VR... who else attempted other than Nintendo with the virtual boy (more 3d than virtual) and sega (again 3d)

 

I suppose the power glove might have counted... but then the wii is VR.

 

anyhow... there's always a first for someone to do something useful with AR. (augmented reality)

and there's some heavy hitters working seriously on it for many applications ... games and other things.

I play with the tech for education using ARToolkit... and there are some really nice game apps being developed with it.

Perhaps AR will/should be the next big production hook.

 

p.s. youtube search augmented reality game to see some examples.

[+pboland]

Looks like there might be some life left for a Flashback 3 yet! Or something better.... Only time will tell. (or Curt or Marty )

Edited August 24, 2008 by pboland

[+swlovinist]

At this point, I would love atari or whoever is in charge of flashback project X to be able to actually sell their final product. Whatever it ends up being, I will be there, ready to buy hopefully. I think that Atari has a market for a console under $100. It would have to be done right, but previous attempts they have done have shown that there is enough interest. All we can do now is pray

[atwwong]

Can't weigh in on to much discussed here for obvious reasons. But I will say that a cartridge port is not an option, as has been explained plenty of times before by Curt and my self. Media card slot, possibly. But not a cartridge slot.

It's unfortunate that a disclaimer of Not guaranteed to work with 20+ year old cartridges (stuck across a brand new 2600a type cart slot) cannot be used to satisfy technical problems, i.e., wear and tear (which I find quite rare). I know this has been discussed before.

 

A media card slot would be a definite plus and make it a must buy, IMHO.

[TwinChargers]

Can't weigh in on to much discussed here for obvious reasons. But I will say that a cartridge port is not an option, as has been explained plenty of times before by Curt and my self. Media card slot, possibly. But not a cartridge slot.

It's unfortunate that a disclaimer of Not guaranteed to work with 20+ year old cartridges (stuck across a brand new 2600a type cart slot) cannot be used to satisfy technical problems, i.e., wear and tear (which I find quite rare). I know this has been discussed before.

 

A media card slot would be a definite plus and make it a must buy, IMHO.

 

Maybe they could put on both? A cartridge slot for collectors and those who appreciate Atari's history, and a media slot for those conveniences of modern life. Out of curiosity though, have a lot of people had many problems with there carts? I've had old Atari's go bad, but cartridges for the most part always seem to work.

 

You'd think that Atari (if they were to go the retro route) could sell this new system that is cart based, and make carts that could hold dozens of games on them. Make like a "Sports Pack" and "Arcade Pack". If we are dealing with newer hardware, make the arcade ports available alongside there 2600, 5200, and 7800 counterparts. This could be done now, couldn't it?

[Crazyace]

Looking at a lot of the cheap DVD players, dont they have enough grunt to run everything an Atari 8 bit ( or even an ST ) could run.

 

You get models like this in the states http://www.amazon.com/Coby-DVD-209-Ultra-C.../ref=pd_sim_e_1 which are pretty cheap...

 

I bought a DVD for about $20 in Shanghai, that had a USB port - you could supply games on DVD ( cheap ) and use a USB stick for storage... ( with a USB kb for programming )

 

The only thing it lacks as a 'PC' is the net