Lynxpro Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I ended up getting Sky Fox on my ST. Man, that PISSED ME OFF that Sky Fox never came out. Come to think of it, the 7800 box was a bit traumatic for me! I remember looking at the back of the 7800 box and being particularly grabbed by Sky Fox, Impossible Mission, Winter Games, Desert Falcon and Karateka. Sky Fox never arrived. Grrr! Desert Falcon was a bit disappointing to me, though I liked the graphics. Impossible Mission never seemed to be in stock in Atari Canada. When I got it from the US during a trip to Florida, I couldn't actually finish it. Thankfully, Art is on the case. And Karateka (which I loved on my friend's computers) was probably my biggest disappointment in gaming history when I played it on the 7800. If I knew how to code like Bob or Mark, that would be the first game I'd fix on the 7800, with Double Dragon being second. Strangely, the one 'super game' I had about zip interest in was Ballblazer. It looked goofy on the back of the box and I'd never seen it in action on another machine. When I did, my opinion did a complete 180! Karateka was responsible for the destruction of one Pro Line controller but I beat that game. That damn bird, I still detest it... Here in California, you had to cover all the bases to find 7800 carts. They were at Toys R Us, KB Toys, and Atari's own Federated. It was haphazard to say the least. Even Federated didn't get some of the titles. I'm still kicking myself for not buying Ballblazer and ROF for the 5200 in the Atari/Lucasfilm packaging during the time Atari was using Federated to clear out their warehouse inventories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Here in California, you had to cover all the bases to find 7800 carts. They were at Toys R Us, KB Toys, and Atari's own Federated. It was haphazard to say the least. Even Federated didn't get some of the titles. I'm still kicking myself for not buying Ballblazer and ROF for the 5200 in the Atari/Lucasfilm packaging during the time Atari was using Federated to clear out their warehouse inventories. I never saw an Atari Federated store but wanted to. Speaking of it, here's a Tramiel internal video 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewat Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Let's keep this somewhat on topic (sorry, that's the ford-trucks.com Super moderator in me talking) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Let's keep this somewhat on topic (sorry, that's the ford-trucks.com Super moderator in me talking) My bad. BTW: thanks for sharing all the background on IMPOSSIBLE MISSION and what it was like to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Let's keep this somewhat on topic (sorry, that's the ford-trucks.com Super moderator in me talking) I bought Impossible Mission for the 7800 at Federated so it's on-topic. I never saw an Atari Federated store but wanted to. Speaking of it, here's a Tramiel internal video Interesting. Looking back, I'd say one of the downfalls of the chain was the wasted floor space. Most of the Federated stores here in the Sacramento region had huge floor plans and you'd walk from one department - basically a station - to another and it was empty space. It reminds me of the difference between the Incredible Universe store we had here in town and what Fry's did to it after they took over. In that comparison, Incredible Universe wasted about 70% of the floor space compared to Fry's. Granted, their customer service was much better. As for Federated, one thing that differentiated them from their competition was "Fred Rated" in their crazy commercials which the Tramiels foolishly ended and replaced with boring commercials. The massively expanding Circuit City steamrolled them along with Silo and other regional consumer electronics retailer "super stores". Federated was one of the few stores where I actually saw one of the all-in-one Atari monitors with a disk drive built into it. None of the local Atari specific computer dealers around here ever had them, and I'm talking right after the 520ST was released, not after the Tramiel takeover of the chain... Does anyone else have any ideas on improving Impossible Mission for the 7800? What else can we do to help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I was unable to find the 360K floppy drives that I thought I had. Only could find the 1.2 drives. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I'll be digging out my PC from storage tomorrow, so if all goes well, I'll be ready to send one of my drives on Monday or Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewat Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 I bought Impossible Mission for the 7800 at Federated so it's on-topic. Interesting. Looking back, I'd say one of the downfalls of the chain was the wasted floor space. Most of the Federated stores here in the Sacramento region had huge floor plans and you'd walk from one department - basically a station - to another and it was empty space. It reminds me of the difference between the Incredible Universe store we had here in town and what Fry's did to it after they took over. In that comparison, Incredible Universe wasted about 70% of the floor space compared to Fry's. Granted, their customer service was much better. As for Federated, one thing that differentiated them from their competition was "Fred Rated" in their crazy commercials which the Tramiels foolishly ended and replaced with boring commercials. The massively expanding Circuit City steamrolled them along with Silo and other regional consumer electronics retailer "super stores". Federated was one of the few stores where I actually saw one of the all-in-one Atari monitors with a disk drive built into it. None of the local Atari specific computer dealers around here ever had them, and I'm talking right after the 520ST was released, not after the Tramiel takeover of the chain... Yes, that was certainly on topic Does anyone else have any ideas on improving Impossible Mission for the 7800? What else can we do to help? Do it on the WII? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Do it on the WII? I'm afraid it wouldn't look as good as the PSP version... Seriously, I have a very low opinion of the Wii; it doesn't even seem to have enough power to run most classic arcade ROMs via MAME... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Seriously, I have a very low opinion of the Wii; it doesn't even seem to have enough power to run most classic arcade ROMs via MAME... You're entitled to have a 'low opinion', but that's probably really pushing it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewat Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 I'm afraid it wouldn't look as good as the PSP version... Seriously, I have a very low opinion of the Wii; it doesn't even seem to have enough power to run most classic arcade ROMs via MAME... I would think it's all about who is writing the software. Right from the MAME faq: 'Modern MAME has relatively high CPU requirements even for games you might consider to be “simple”.' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 krewat, I was wondering how different this build of Impossible Mission is going to be from the bugged version. For example, will the sounds be different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewat Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 krewat, I was wondering how different this build of Impossible Mission is going to be from the bugged version. For example, will the sounds be different? Initially, it will only be the bug fix. I think there's more to the "classic" nature that way. Afterwards, maybe more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I'm afraid it wouldn't look as good as the PSP version... Seriously, I have a very low opinion of the Wii; it doesn't even seem to have enough power to run most classic arcade ROMs via MAME... I would think it's all about who is writing the software. Right from the MAME faq: 'Modern MAME has relatively high CPU requirements even for games you might consider to be “simple”.' An eMac from 2003 doesn't have similar problems even though it has a weaker version of the PowerPC processor in it. A 10 year old HP laptop running Linux has less issues with MAME than the Gamecube 1.5, err, excuse me, Wii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewat Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 An eMac from 2003 doesn't have similar problems even though it has a weaker version of the PowerPC processor in it. A 10 year old HP laptop running Linux has less issues with MAME than the Gamecube 1.5, err, excuse me, Wii. I still suspect that someone hasn't done the optimizations necessary on the Wii. The good old "gcc -O" is your friend, especially when gcc is able to optimize based on architecture. Not to mention, it's VERY possible they just aren't doing the video right. It's a common thing that I've found in emulation, where the video you're trying to emulate just doesn't mesh well with the video system you're doing the emulation on. And again, if someone hasn't taken the time to do the emulation correctly, the "brute force" pixel-by-pixel redraws are most likely what's killing it. All that, without ever having even looked at the Wii architecture So, take it with a grain of salt. But I digress 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 A 733MHz celeron w/ 64MB xbox runs MAME pretty damn handily... I can't believe that the Wii can't do better. It's got to be a question of optimization (read: effort), as krewat just said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 t's got to be a question of optimization (read: effort), as krewat just said. No kidding. I get so tired of seeing some of the lazier devs out there refer to Wii as "GameCube 1.5" and then trying to blame their crappy "GameCube .25 level effort" on Wii hardware limitations. The way some tell the story, you'd swear the Wii had less processing power under the hood than a Super NES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) t's got to be a question of optimization (read: effort), as krewat just said. No kidding. I get so tired of seeing some of the lazier devs out there refer to Wii as "GameCube 1.5" and then trying to blame their crappy "GameCube .25 level effort" on Wii hardware limitations. The way some tell the story, you'd swear the Wii had less processing power under the hood than a Super NES. It is still an incredibly weak system compared to the competition and yet again another classic example of Nintendo making a fortune off inferior hardware, imho. And they have no shame - or pride - in terms of milking their franchises to death's end. Say what you will about Bungie but they've voluntarily turned over the reigns to Halo. They went out on high. Edited February 9, 2011 by Lynxpro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewat Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 It is still an incredibly weak system compared to the competition and yet again another classic example of Nintendo making a fortune off inferior hardware, imho. Sounds like a capitalist's wet dream, if you ask me Let's see, a 1Mhz 6502, almost no RAM to speak of, a video chip that is simple at best, with a brand-name on it everyone equates to gaming... week hardware I'd call it for the times. Oh wait, BACK ON TOPIC! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I still suspect that someone hasn't done the optimizations necessary on the Wii. The good old "gcc -O" is your friend, especially when gcc is able to optimize based on architecture. Not to mention, it's VERY possible they just aren't doing the video right. I took a quick look at the makefile for Wii MAME and the SDL layer is built using "-O3" so it should be the fastest possible code. However, looking at the video conversion code I can see why it isn't very fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atarifever Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 It is still an incredibly weak system compared to the competition and yet again another classic example of Nintendo making a fortune off inferior hardware, imho. And they have no shame - or pride - in terms of milking their franchises to death's end. Say what you will about Bungie but they've voluntarily turned over the reigns to Halo. They went out on high. I forget, but which of the repetitive, boring, badly written Halo games was their swan song? Anyway, who cares if Bungie gave up on it. For your comparison to work Microsoft would have to give up on it. They have not. They will not. The 360 is my primary console. I have a subscription to OXM. I play the system just about every night (finished Beyond Oasis on the Genesis Collection last night). I would rather see 25 Zeldas, 6 Metroids, 100 Marios, the rest of Sonic 4 and ten sequels to Colours, Megaman 11 through 50, and a handful of Spyros again before I would like to see another Halo. Maybe I just don't like racist teenagers and repetitive firefights enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewat Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 I forget, but which of the repetitive, boring, badly written Halo games was their swan song? I actually play Halo CE almost every day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I never saw an Atari Federated store but wanted to. I know a couple of guys who worked at a Federated back in the day (I didn't know them THEN, of course) and one is a collector. He tells a story about how they were supposed to box up some unsold stuff and send it back to Sunnyvale. Years later on a trashing expedition to Sunnyvale, he found the exact same box, and it had never been opened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) It is still an incredibly weak system compared to the competition Sure. But there's also a big disconnect between what the system is capable of and what a lot of developers deliver on it. :-) and yet again another classic example of Nintendo making a fortune off inferior hardware, imho. It's the classic "technology focused vs. user focused" debate. Argument was made with GameBoy too: Technology view: it's black and white, the screen's small, it's non-backlit. User view: it came with a compelling, addictive game, it was under $90 bucks, it had great battery life and could fit in a pocket. And it was durable. Plus there's all these popular games on it. When the Wii came out, look at the industry. Game budgets exploding. Hardware costs exploding for consumers and for vendors. Lots of games losing money. Lots of consoles not differentiated. They came out with a different way to play and development costs were less for developers. A new audience of consumers bought it and voila. Seemed to work for them. And they have no shame - or pride - in terms of milking their franchises to death's end. In your personal, subjective opinion! Most reviews for Nintendo games are fantastic. And judging from the sales of most Nintendo games, consumers agree. They can milk franchises all they want if they keep doing a good job, IMO. This is more than a low opinion of the Wii. You obviously have a bias against Nintendo as a whole. I've had them in the past but after seeing get knocked down a peg during SNES and especially during GameCube era, I have more respect for 'em now. Edited February 9, 2011 by DracIsBack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 It is still an incredibly weak system compared to the competition and yet again another classic example of Nintendo making a fortune off inferior hardware, imho. Sounds like a capitalist's wet dream, if you ask me Let's see, a 1Mhz 6502, almost no RAM to speak of, a video chip that is simple at best, with a brand-name on it everyone equates to gaming... week hardware I'd call it for the times. Oh wait, BACK ON TOPIC! Not true - the 2600 was not released when the Colecovision was out, so that's not a fair comparison at all. When the 2600 was released, it was high tech. Compare the Wii to its same generation competitors and yes, the hardware is vastly inferior. That doesn't mean good games can't be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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