who, of you here have a foot in both the a8 and c64 camps

[Deteacher]

When I was growing up, I was into both Atari and C64. Quite simply put, there were some games I preferred to play on the Atari 8-bit, and there were others I preferred to play on the C64. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, so by owning both, I got the best of both worlds.

[AndyR]

[...] your delusions like you stated will go away:

[...] You aren't because you are wrong.

[...] Looks like you haven't done much programming on Atari.

 

And now I understand why I was warned off so vigorously from a "vs." discussion. Apologies, all, for trolling the ad hominems. It wasn't intentional, I promise.

[carmel_andrews]

Like me said on first post....I only want to know who uses/programs or has used/programmed both the A8 and c64

 

me is'nt interested in any atari vs cbm discussion...that has already been done to death

[Bryan]

And now I understand why I was warned off so vigorously from a "vs." discussion. Apologies, all, for trolling the ad hominems. It wasn't intentional, I promise.

My opinion of the 64 has improved over the years but the bickering in the forums doesn't change anyone's mind. Today I have a 64 and 1541 but it only gets hooked up every once in a while. I don't have an easy way of getting files to it.

[Ogma]

I was raised on Atari... My heart is with Atari... But I'm open to other systems now and I recently acquired a 128D that I'm currently restoring...

[atariksi]

[...] your delusions like you stated will go away:

[...] You aren't because you are wrong.

[...] Looks like you haven't done much programming on Atari.

 

And now I understand why I was warned off so vigorously from a "vs." discussion. Apologies, all, for trolling the ad hominems. It wasn't intentional, I promise.

 

Nothing wrong with stating something that's true to prevent biased views from misleading people.

[atariksi]

That article is kinda pointless.

 

GTIA modes are only useful in modes where Antic is passing 40 bytes of information to GTIA per scanline.

 

ie 2-5 and D-F.

 

Not to mention it contains no information of software generated modes, although to be fair, most of them probably weren't even conceived when it was written.

 

It's "Starting Out". You can build on top of any of those combinations and what to speak of mixing them. You never know which mode may come in useful to get the right color and save a few cycles.

[atariksi]

And now I understand why I was warned off so vigorously from a "vs." discussion. Apologies, all, for trolling the ad hominems. It wasn't intentional, I promise.

My opinion of the 64 has improved over the years but the bickering in the forums doesn't change anyone's mind. Today I have a 64 and 1541 but it only gets hooked up every once in a while. I don't have an easy way of getting files to it.

 

Nowadays, you can own all the systems, but even on Ebay I have observed Ataris and their peripherals selling at higher prices than C64 stuff. Similarly, Amiga stuff sells more than Atari ST stuff. Although bickering does not help, there's still an objective reality out there.

[Mirage]

And now I understand why I was warned off so vigorously from a "vs." discussion. Apologies, all, for trolling the ad hominems. It wasn't intentional, I promise.

My opinion of the 64 has improved over the years but the bickering in the forums doesn't change anyone's mind. Today I have a 64 and 1541 but it only gets hooked up every once in a while. I don't have an easy way of getting files to it.

 

Nowadays, you can own all the systems, but even on Ebay I have observed Ataris and their peripherals selling at higher prices than C64 stuff. Similarly, Amiga stuff sells more than Atari ST stuff. Although bickering does not help, there's still an objective reality out there.

 

I think C64 stuff is a lot more common. I also used to see them at thrift stores a lot more often (in the '90s, and I bought a lot of them, explaining my large collection today), furthering my strong belief that C64's were far more common that Atari 8-bit stuff in most areas of the US. Could depend on region, but I'm pretty sure that overall this is true. C64 is most-sold of any single computer model of all time, remember. I think this has a lot to do with the prices, moreso than desirability.

Edited February 19, 2009 by Mirage1972

[atariksi]

And now I understand why I was warned off so vigorously from a "vs." discussion. Apologies, all, for trolling the ad hominems. It wasn't intentional, I promise.

My opinion of the 64 has improved over the years but the bickering in the forums doesn't change anyone's mind. Today I have a 64 and 1541 but it only gets hooked up every once in a while. I don't have an easy way of getting files to it.

 

Nowadays, you can own all the systems, but even on Ebay I have observed Ataris and their peripherals selling at higher prices than C64 stuff. Similarly, Amiga stuff sells more than Atari ST stuff. Although bickering does not help, there's still an objective reality out there.

 

I think C64 stuff is a lot more common. I also used to see them at thrift stores a lot more often (in the '90s, and I bought a lot of them, explaining my large collection today), furthering my strong belief that C64's were far more common that Atari 8-bit stuff in most areas of the US. Could depend on region, but I'm pretty sure that overall this is true. C64 is most-sold of any single computer model of all time, remember. I think this has a lot to do with the prices, moreso than desirability.

 

True, I think that popularity made some people think it's superior in its hardware aspects as well.

[frogstar_robot]

I think C64 stuff is a lot more common. I also used to see them at thrift stores a lot more often (in the '90s, and I bought a lot of them, explaining my large collection today)

 

 

All I see in the thrifts now are tired 486s, Pentium Is of various speeds, 14 in. CRTs, and other such detritus from the early part of the computing era we're now in. A few months back I did see a TI99/4a and last month I saw some common A8 carts. What was a cheap hobby is becoming very expensive on E-Bay and being an Atari guy, I'd be delighted to see a slew of cheap C-64s in a thrift. Alas, the days of scoring all the toys I wanted as a kid out of thrifts seem to be over.

 

And to answer the question that started this thread, someone gave me C-64 and a data cassette recorder to go with it and a handful of games on cassette. I did load a few just see what that was like as even the Commodore guys I knew back in the day had 1541s and 1571s. It made me very glad of diskette drives. Around that time a friend of mine made a kind of home automation system controlled with the user port on one of his C-64s. Now THAT was some neat stuff. That port can easily control simple electronics and is a nice boon to an enthusiast of both computing and electronics. The equivalent on the A8 is a third-party and hard to find teaching lab set of some kind.

[+bf2k+]

That port can easily control simple electronics and is a nice boon to an enthusiast of both computing and electronics. The equivalent on the A8 is a third-party and hard to find teaching lab set of some kind.

 

I used to control a tiny 5V relay (to disconnect the phone line) from the joystick port on my 800 when I ran the BBS on a MPP 1000e. The (e) had a bug and it would not drop carrier like the old 1000c did. A couple of POKEs in basic with a delay in between them would pull the relay in and drop the carrier.

[atariksi]

That port can easily control simple electronics and is a nice boon to an enthusiast of both computing and electronics. The equivalent on the A8 is a third-party and hard to find teaching lab set of some kind.

 

I used to control a tiny 5V relay (to disconnect the phone line) from the joystick port on my 800 when I ran the BBS on a MPP 1000e. The (e) had a bug and it would not drop carrier like the old 1000c did. A couple of POKEs in basic with a delay in between them would pull the relay in and drop the carrier.

 

I was constructing a relay myself recently to control a light bulb-- perhaps you have a more optimal solution:

 

Light Bulb-------------------------/\/\/\/\/\/--------------| (joystick DB9 pin 1)

| | |

| |____<-\ |

| \ |

| |---------------------------

| /

| /

| --------/------------------------------ (joystick DB9 pin 8 - gnd)

| |_____________________________________________________ (120VAC plug)

|__________________________________________________________________

[Olds-kool gamer]

Hi all,

 

Saw this thread and thought I'd throw in my tuppence worth.

 

Keeping it 8-Bit

 

Started with Pong, then Atari VCS wanted an Atari 400 but parents would not shell-out for one so moved onto Spectrums, then the C64, which still gets the occasional hook up every so often.

 

But like your first girlfriend, I'll always have a soft spot for Atari's for me they represent the embodiment of "classic retro gaming"...

[ClausB]

At Program Design, Inc., in 1984, I wrote educational software for the Atari mostly, but also some for the Apple II and C64. I enjoyed working on the Apple but not so much on the C64. I loved the Atari and respected the Apple but, to me, the C64 was the young upstart already threatening Atari's dominance. And it saddened me that Commodore was winning via marketing instead of engineering. (Don't flame me - this is what I thought back then).

 

I had to do one project for all 3 platforms. It was a multiple-choice, SAT-prep, quiz program, IIRC. I decided to develop it on the Atari and port it to the others. But they all had different disk formats and I didn't want to retype all the text data. So I made a little transistor circuit and cable that connected the Atari SIO port to the Apple's or C64's serial input. I then transmitted the text to the other computers. Only the quiz engine differed across the platforms.

 

One thing I disliked about displaying text in the Apple's graphics mode was the color artifacting. So I transferred the Atari character set over to the Apple and used that. The characters were a little too close, because the Apple could only show 7 bits per byte in hires mode, but I though it looked nice and white. I heard later from Sales that several Apple customers were angry about the character set switch! I guess they saw the Atari as the upstart.

[+bf2k+]

I was constructing a relay myself recently to control a light bulb-- perhaps you have a more optimal solution:

 

Light Bulb-------------------------/\/\/\/\/\/--------------| (joystick DB9 pin 1)

| | |

| |____<-\ |

| \ |

| |---------------------------

| /

| /

| --------/------------------------------ (joystick DB9 pin 8 - gnd)

| |_____________________________________________________ (120VAC plug)

|__________________________________________________________________

 

I cannot make heads or tails of the above but let me back up a sec... My memory was failing me again - I used the POKEs to the cassette motor on/off mem locations to control the relay so that means it was NOT hooked to the joystick port but rather to the SIO port - My bad!

 

When I tell people I cannot remember what I did yesterday, they think I am kidding...

 

Edit: My girlfriend saw this and just asked if I could remember how to play the guitar..... I told her I'd let her know in about 5 hours.

Edited February 20, 2009 by bf2k+

[Ross PK]

Like me said on first post....I only want to know who uses/programs or has used/programmed both the A8 and c64

 

me is'nt interested in any atari vs cbm discussion...that has already been done to death

 

Yeah it's so boring, the argument will NEVER be resolved, as technically they're as good as each other, both with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Edited February 20, 2009 by Ross PK

[atariksi]

I was constructing a relay myself recently to control a light bulb-- perhaps you have a more optimal solution:

 

Light Bulb-------------------------/\/\/\/\/\/--------------| (joystick DB9 pin 1)

| | |

| |____<-\ |

| \ |

| |---------------------------

| /

| /

| --------/------------------------------ (joystick DB9 pin 8 - gnd)

| |_____________________________________________________ (120VAC plug)

|__________________________________________________________________

 

I cannot make heads or tails of the above but let me back up a sec... My memory was failing me again - I used the POKEs to the cassette motor on/off mem locations to control the relay so that means it was NOT hooked to the joystick port but rather to the SIO port - My bad!

 

When I tell people I cannot remember what I did yesterday, they think I am kidding...

 

Edit: My girlfriend saw this and just asked if I could remember how to play the guitar..... I told her I'd let her know in about 5 hours.

 

Supposed to be a FET in the middle triggerred off by signal from joystick port pin 1. I think spacing may be getting thrown off by non-fixed fonts.

 

Probably need to put some more protection between AC and DC gnd.

[atariksi]

Like me said on first post....I only want to know who uses/programs or has used/programmed both the A8 and c64

 

me is'nt interested in any atari vs cbm discussion...that has already been done to death

 

Yeah it's so boring, the argument will NEVER be resolved, as technically they're as good as each other, both with their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

Self-contradictory. If you already have concluded that they're as good as each other, then issue is resolved. If they're not as good as each other, then the reality is that one is better than the other.

 

I don't see any evidence that they are technically as good as each other. That would be pretty hard to prove-- take two systems that have different hardware and show that they both equal out. And facts indicate that this is not so. I take it you are just compromising things (because you have a foot in both camps). Using freedom of speech, I can state Atari ST vs. Amiga will NEVER be resolved; "they're as good as each other technically."

[Ross PK]

It'll never be resolved as far as everyone else arguing about it.

 

Even to myself whichever is best cannot be resolved as I think they're pretty much as good as each other.

Edited February 21, 2009 by Ross PK

[atariksi]

It'll never be resolved as far as everyone else arguing about it.

 

Even to myself whichever is best cannot be resolved as I think they're pretty much as good as each other.

 

It's hard to speak for others unless you are going to prove it objectively. You can only speak for yourself that you cannot resolve it. It's clear to me Atari is superior to C64 from the hardware perspective.

[atariksi]

At Program Design, Inc., in 1984, I wrote educational software for the Atari mostly, but also some for the Apple II and C64. I enjoyed working on the Apple but not so much on the C64. I loved the Atari and respected the Apple but, to me, the C64 was the young upstart already threatening Atari's dominance. And it saddened me that Commodore was winning via marketing instead of engineering. (Don't flame me - this is what I thought back then).

 

...

 

They did try to make it more popular by dropping prices by using cheaper parts and looks like a rush job looking at the way some things are done.

[Wrathchild]

Though firmly in the A8 camp as far as programming for the platform goes, I did have a C64 for a while around 1991 or 1992 for a while (a nice boxed cassette + small (piano) keyboard set) though really I didn't play many games on it apart from a compilation with Tetris and Elite. Never had a disk drive for it either and never saw any 'scene' stuff around that time. Being a regular reader of the UK magazines at the time, C&VG, Your Computer etc I would see the wealth of titles that were coming out on that platform and the A8 dwindling in it release rate set my heart on one day getting Elite running on the A8.

 

It was fun too to be involved in helping bring back the CC65 suite back to be able to produce output for the A8 (around 1999/2000 IIRC) seeing as it was being used to cross build for the C64!

 

These days the C64 is long gone but I retain a reasonable collection of A8 hardware to dabble with from time to time. I do have the C64 Kempston stick thing which is great for an occasional bash on Speedball! Development is done using cross-assembly on a PC with A800WinPLus and/or Atari++ and C64 emulation and debug tracing courtesy of Vice. IDAPro for reverse engineering and study of C64 code.

Edited February 21, 2009 by Wrathchild

[Heaven/TQA]

Mark, which IDApro version are you using? I just downloaded the free version but can not disass 6502 stuff? can you pm me how?

[Mirage]

Up until now, as I had previously described, I've had only one (either A8 or C64) set up at a time. Just now, I cleared a shelf space for the C64 and it's now permanently set up with it's own monitor. So, the A8 is on one side of the room, the C64 on the opposite side! I'd say that's firmly in both camps! FWIW, I still do have a preference for the C64 just because I grew up with it, but I do acknowlege that to me, as a gamer/user, the A8 does seem to be the better machine in most ways. I like the SID music a little better, but otherwise, the A8 seems the superior machine.