"New Drives" for MIO

[IndusGT]

As you guys might have heard, WareRat got the SCM PCD-50B SCSI 5-slot card reader working with the MIO.

 

The two things he did were:

 

1) Add LUN support back into the configuration menu in the firmware.

 

2) Add a SCSI Parity generator circuit to his MIO.

 

The 1.41 firmware has the LUN support.

 

Here is the Parity MOD:

 

The jumper is to enable/disable the parity at the MIO end. You really don't need this, as any device that doesn't use parity will not see the parity signal, but It's only 2 extra solder connections, so I figured "why not?"..

 

This MOD seems to substantially increase the range of device compatability. If the only reason your device won't work is "lack of parity," then this may make it work.

 

As alwayse, perform at your own risk!

 

Last night I built/installed this Parity MOD on my MIO and was able to get a 1GB SCSI IOMEGA JAZ drive working with the MIO. JAZ drives & cartridges are dirt-cheap on Ebay these days, and 1GB is a pretty useful size (up to thirty-one 65536 sector partitions per cartridge).

 

I did find that I had to low-level format each JAZ cart first, in order to avoid strange error messages (probably due to the way the data was written to the cart previously by the MAC/WINDOWS machines they had been used with, and some IOMEGA-specific features of the drive that were being employed.)

 

To format a JAZ cart:

 

First set up your first partition in the MIO firmware menu and "save config."

Second, use REALDOS's HDFMTMIO.COM and select "Seagate Embedded Drives".

Third, immediately rerun HDFMTMIO.COM and format again using the "IOMEGA ALPHA/BETA Drives" selection. This will take about half an hour. When it's done, you'll get an error message "unable to read size of drive" (or something like that). Don't worry, it formatted it just fine.

 

Now you can create as many additional partitions as you want, and use FMTDIR.COM (or HDFMTDIR.COM) to format each partition.

 

Have fun..

 

That is great, I just bought one of these card readers for my Black Box, will future MIOs come with this parity mod pre-installed? Would there be an extra charge?

also....

any word on the firmware capable of adressing a 16 Meg ram disk, I would definively jump on that! Thanks

Edited April 22, 2011 by IndusGT

[MEtalGuy66]

PARITY: If someone absolutely has to have this upgrade and can't do it themselves, I'd do it for $30.00+shipping. No I will not be manufacturing MIO boards with the parity upgrade pre-installed (unless someone specifically requests it.)

 

16-MEG: It requires more than firmware to do that. There has to be a way to physically install the extra RAM.. So original ICD MIO's will need a pretty substantial hardware modification (change the DRAM control circuit, remove the original DRAM, and add a SIMM socket). If you ship me your MIO, I can do it for $100.00+return shipping. If you want to do it yourself, check the SUPPORT page of my website for detailed build instructions. The MIOs that Warerat and I have built/sold do not need this. Firmware 16-meg support is "in the works".

 

Check the NEWS section of my website for development updates (theres none to report at the moment.)

[IndusGT]

PARITY: If someone absolutely has to have this upgrade and can't do it themselves, I'd do it for $30.00+shipping. No I will not be manufacturing MIO boards with the parity upgrade pre-installed (unless someone specifically requests it.)

 

16-MEG: It requires more than firmware to do that. There has to be a way to physically install the extra RAM.. So original ICD MIO's will need a pretty substantial hardware modification (change the DRAM control circuit, remove the original DRAM, and add a SIMM socket). If you ship me your MIO, I can do it for $100.00+return shipping. If you want to do it yourself, check the SUPPORT page of my website for detailed build instructions. The MIOs that Warerat and I have built/sold do not need this. Firmware 16-meg support is "in the works".

 

Check the NEWS section of my website for development updates (theres none to report at the moment.)

Well, the parity upgrade seems more than worth it, great to be able to add solid state storage without the need of a bridge ( another piece of hardware)

Probabaly a stupid question as I never had an MIO, but I assume that current firmware only handles up to a 1 Meg Ram disk?

If so, still nice to be ready when the new fimware comes out, tempting indeed...

[+warerat]

JAZ drives use a cartridge that is about the size of a 5200 cart, and each has 2 rigid platters in it.

 

The READ speed is the same as a hardisk. Writes are slower (I get about 7800 bytes/sec).

 

I crap on your JAZ drive.

 

I got my Sony SMO-F551 5.2GB Magneto-optical (using only 512-bytes out of the native 2048-byte sectors) to work. Too bad it makes terrible use of the sector capacity.

[MEtalGuy66]

Yeah I know.. But I cant find/afford the carts for that.. And I was just mainly passing on the info about the Parity mod anywayze.. You know, give the tinkerers something to mess with.. Maybe (hopefully) end up with a few more model numbers to stick on my drive compatability page.

 

Pisses me off that those ultra320 Sea-Crate 73 giggers still won't work.. Maybe I'll mess with them some more this weekend.

[Marius]

Even jaz drive do suffer from the infamous click of death. I really don't like the idea of that.

 

I also did abandon all my scsi zipdrives. They really s*ck bigtime. The only removable "harddrives" I trust are made by syquest... And even these have their flaws.

[Marius]

By the way I changed blackbox firmware that I saves config to scsi 0 lun 1 ... So I can use that scsi cardreader too without PCMCIA -> cf adapter. If someone is interested drop me a line.

[MEtalGuy66]

Even jaz drive do suffer from the infamous click of death. I really don't like the idea of that.

 

I also did abandon all my scsi zipdrives. They really s*ck bigtime. The only removable "harddrives" I trust are made by syquest... And even these have their flaws.

 

That's funny. I know several people who used them (JAZ) on a daily basis for extensive multimedia authoring for 4-5 years with no problems at all.. In fact, the Art Institute of Houston REQUIRED them for years as a primary means of storage for various project types that at the time there was no other suitable/economical means of removable storage of that capacity.

 

And they damn sure outperform the old syquest drives.

 

I've been using ZIP drives since the 90s, both at home and work, and Ive never even heard of "the click of death". Ive never used them as a primary means of storage, but Ive reformatted them many times, and never had a problem with reliability. I guess anything wears out eventually.. And given the track record of 1.44meg floppies, I could beleieve that if you read/write to the same ZIP disk on a daily basis, it would probably have a very limited lifespan.

[Marius]

And they damn sure outperform the old syquest drives.

 

Performance is not important to me, if the reliability is less. I was only speaking about reliability.

 

I've been using ZIP drives since the 90s, both at home and work, and Ive never even heard of "the click of death". Ive never used them as a primary means of storage, but Ive reformatted them many times, and never had a problem with reliability. I guess anything wears out eventually.. And given the track record of 1.44meg floppies, I could beleieve that if you read/write to the same ZIP disk on a daily basis, it would probably have a very limited lifespan.

 

I'm really surprised by the way you look at things. When it is about subject A, you forces almost everybody to follow your high standards and only your opinion is right. And now on this subject, where it is about Zip drives, wich are really a POOR design; and they have all kind of serious issues, you are like: hey mine is working fine, so it IS a great device?

 

I really can not follow you here. Zip drives are known for issues, which are not caused by just aging. When you look a bit further than your own device, you'll meet really a lot of people with troubles with Zip drives.

 

When I found out years ago that my BlackBox could handle Zipdrives I bought myself a few BRANDNEW ones. I wanted to have reliable storage devices. How wrong was I. Lots of issues.

 

Also in my work (I'm a professional musician, write and arrange music, do recordings and all that) I found that zipdrives and disks do really s*ck. I'm talking about the 100MB disks... first edition. After all the problems I had with those, I never bought another IOMEGA Removable product EVER. Perhaps the newer ones are better, but I don't believe it.

 

From people in my neighbourhood I understand they had same trouble with JAZ drives, like I had with my zipdrive.

 

But as I wrote above: I really don't understand how you can be so serious on some subjects, and really want everybody to agree with your opinion (I really do respect your amount of knowledge on some subjects) I can not believe you are promoting such weak and poor designed devices on the other side!

 

Greetz

M>

[MEtalGuy66]

And they damn sure outperform the old syquest drives.

 

Performance is not important to me, if the reliability is less. I was only speaking about reliability.

 

I've been using ZIP drives since the 90s, both at home and work, and Ive never even heard of "the click of death". Ive never used them as a primary means of storage, but Ive reformatted them many times, and never had a problem with reliability. I guess anything wears out eventually.. And given the track record of 1.44meg floppies, I could beleieve that if you read/write to the same ZIP disk on a daily basis, it would probably have a very limited lifespan.

 

I'm really surprised by the way you look at things. When it is about subject A, you forces almost everybody to follow your high standards and only your opinion is right. And now on this subject, where it is about Zip drives, wich are really a POOR design; and they have all kind of serious issues, you are like: hey mine is working fine, so it IS a great device?

This from the guy who doesnt even own an MIO, who continuously posts in the MIO threads, based on "experience" with a BlackBox??

 

I really can not follow you here. Zip drives are known for issues, which are not caused by just aging.

Whos aid anything about aging? What I said is that I never used them for continuous/repeated use as primary storeage devices, and therefor cant vouch for their reliability in such a role.

When you look a bit further than your own device, you'll meet really a lot of people with troubles with Zip drives.

 

When I found out years ago that my BlackBox could handle Zipdrives I bought myself a few BRANDNEW ones. I wanted to have reliable storage devices. How wrong was I. Lots of issues.

Well, that's YOUR experience.. And mine is that when used for archival/backup purposes and not used as a primary means of storage, they are very reliable. And thats based on MANY people using them where I work for MANY years. As in not a single reported failure..

 

Also in my work (I'm a professional musician, write and arrange music, do recordings and all that) I found that zipdrives and disks do really s*ck. I'm talking about the 100MB disks... first edition. After all the problems I had with those, I never bought another IOMEGA Removable product EVER. Perhaps the newer ones are better, but I don't believe it.

Hmm.. SO your oppinion isnt very biased on your own personal experience, is it?

 

From people in my neighbourhood I understand they had same trouble with JAZ drives, like I had with my zipdrive.

Which is exactly the opposite of my experience, and of those I know.. Not to mention that they are two TOTALLY different devices, based on totally different technology..

 

But as I wrote above: I really don't understand how you can be so serious on some subjects, and really want everybody to agree with your opinion (I really do respect your amount of knowledge on some subjects) I can not believe you are promoting such weak and poor designed devices on the other side!

I think you are obviosuly a very poor judge of the SERIOUSNESS of anything.. I dont really care if you use Iomega products or not. IF others want to use them, that's their choice.. Why do you care?

[Marius]

This from the guy who doesnt even own an MIO, who continuously posts in the MIO threads, based on "experience" with a BlackBox??

 

Indeed, I'm that guy. I don't believe Drives get a special behavior when they are used on a MIO. Drives are drives. A bad drive (like Zip drives definately ARE) will have the same result on a blackbox, MIO, or whatever SCSI host adapter you'll use. I used Zip Drives on different computers, and all with (eventually) the same disappointing results.

 

And by the way, the topic is called new DRIVES for mio. So discussing drives makes perfectly sense in this place. That I mention sometimes something about BlackBox... is not so strange. Those devices are comparable on a certain level, and knowledge about BlackBox can be interesting here too.

 

Well, that's YOUR experience.. And mine is that when used for archival/backup purposes and not used as a primary means of storage, they are very reliable. And thats based on MANY people using them where I work for MANY years. As in not a single reported failure..

 

Ah... that is what I did wrong. I used my Zip drive every day. Stupid me... I should have bought it, and put it in the closet, to use it once a month... or perhaps once a year? Once a decade? What kind of storage device is that?

 

Hmm.. SO your oppinion isnt very biased on your own personal experience, is it?

 

http://tinyurl.com/448wn2y

 

http://tinyurl.com/6bvnvw4

 

Whos aid anything about aging? What I said is that I never used them for continuous/repeated use as primary storeage devices, and therefor cant vouch for their reliability in such a role.

 

You wrote this: "I guess anything wears out eventually.."

 

Well aging/wearing out... it's the same for me. And that is NOT the issue with the Zip drives. It has nothing to do with "wears out" ... it has nothing to do with "aging" ... it has everything to do with a weak/poor design of the Zip Drives. Indeed: a POOR design.

 

IF others want to use them, that's their choice.. Why do you care?

 

You are actually writing that? As soon as someone states that he uses MyIDE you start even a Private Conversation to explain how stupid and a poor design MyIDE is. Why do you care, someone uses it? I really don't understand that. In several threads you keep repeating theory how things SHOULD be done on Atari. And things like: if you don't know a thing about electronics, don't even think about messing with it. And now you are going to promote braind dead devices like Jaz and Zip drives? Come on.

 

To get back on topic:

 

My advice: don't use Jaz or Zipdrives, and definately not for important data. You'll never know when it's lost!

[MEtalGuy66]

Indeed, I'm that guy. I don't believe Drives get a special behavior when they are used on a MIO.

The MIO and Black box are two very different devices where SCSI compatability is concerned. Their firmware functionality is VERY different, and even the hardware layer by which they access the SCSI bus is different.

Drives are drives. A bad drive (like Zip drives definately ARE) will have the same result on a blackbox, MIO, or whatever SCSI host adapter you'll use. I used Zip Drives on different computers, and all with (eventually) the same disappointing results.

Ever think maybe it's a problem with the nature in which you are trying to use them?

And by the way, the topic is called new DRIVES for mio. So discussing drives makes perfectly sense in this place. That I mention sometimes something about BlackBox... is not so strange. Those devices are comparable on a certain level, and knowledge about BlackBox can be interesting here too.

it can also be irrelevant and misleading to those who are not fully aware of the major differences between the two devices (yourself included).

Ah... that is what I did wrong. I used my Zip drive every day. Stupid me...

Who said you did anything wrong? I was simply offering a possible explanation as to why your apparent experience differs so greatly with that of so many other people, companies, PC vendors (who continued to include the ZIP drive as standard equipment in their models for YEARS), educational institutions, etc. etc. etc..

I should have bought it, and put it in the closet, to use it once a month... or perhaps once a year? Once a decade? What kind of storage device is that?

Do I really need to explain to you the difference between the roles of a device used for archival/backup purposes and those of a device used as a primary means of storage on a daily basis for random access data? Get a grip, man. If you can't make an intelligent argument, its better to keep your mouth shut.

 

http://tinyurl.com/448wn2y

 

http://tinyurl.com/6bvnvw4

 

THIS PROVES NOTHING

 

 

You wrote this: "I guess anything wears out eventually.."

 

Well aging/wearing out... it's the same for me.

If you think aging and wear is the same thing, then I guess that explains the nature of the rest of your arguments.. Nevermind.

 

 

You are actually writing that? As soon as someone states that he uses MyIDE you start even a Private Conversation to explain how stupid and a poor design MyIDE is.

MyIDE is not a design. Its a cheap hack that does not work AT ALL with a very large percentage of IDE devices, and is not implemented in anything resembling a system legal manner. This is fact.

Why do you care, someone uses it?

I don't. I feel that whoever spent their money on it should be entitled to the best possible functionality from it. And that's what the basis of my arguments have been.

I really don't understand that. In several threads you keep repeating theory how things SHOULD be done on Atari.

Yeah. That seems to be a predominant problem in your area of the world. You are unable to understand why just because something may work for your own specific uses and be "good enough" for you, that everyone else should not settle for half broken functionality and lack of support for preexisting standards that you may not care about. If you sell something, you have the responsibility to support it, or allow others to support it instead. And that's what's happening right now with MyIDE.

And things like: if you don't know a thing about electronics, don't even think about messing with it.

Please don;t misquote me. What I said was for YOUR OWN benefit. And what I stated was that if you don't have an understanding of the relationship involved in the problem your were dealing with in THAT SPECIFIC situation, then you were better off leaving it alone because you'd be "shooting in the dark" trying to correct it. That is the truth. I'm sorry you have a problem with the truth.

 

My advice: don't use Jaz or Zipdrives, and definately not for important data. You'll never know when it's lost!

Advice taken..

 

My Advice is that Jaz drives are most certainly no less reliable than any other hard disc Ive had experience using. I dont know anyone who has lost a single byte of data due to undesired operation, and I know quite a few people who used them quite heavily on a daily basis for many many years..

[venom4728a]

Is there any new drive updates or News on the firmware update that allows 16mb in the new MIO units?

 

Best Regards

Robert

[MEtalGuy66]

All I can say is that nothing is likely to happen any time soon. I dont have the time to mess with it, like I once did.. (I still build MIOs on a per-order basis, but that's about it.) Warerat is VERY BUSY with his job these days. If anything new happens, It will be posted on here.

[venom4728a]

All I can say is that nothing is likely to happen any time soon. I dont have the time to mess with it, like I once did.. (I still build MIOs on a per-order basis, but that's about it.) Warerat is VERY BUSY with his job these days. If anything new happens, It will be posted on here.

 

Thanks for the Update. I understand that for sure. Just quit one job and started another here myself so I have been spending of lot of time taking training classes...

 

Best regards

Robert

[+Larry]

Still working on getting MyDos to use the MIO ramdisk properly. Thanks to 1050, quite a bit of progress has been made. But I found something else -- APE's virtual printer features don't function with the MIO firmware 1.41 (latest version, I believe). As with the IDE+2, I thought it might be an ULtraSpeed SIO issue, but I checked with a stock XL/XE OS (std. SIO) and it still will not print thru. Just info, and I have not checked AspeQt yet.

 

Edit: Was not able to print with AspeQt, either.

 

-Larry

[MEtalGuy66]

Is this with the MIO's P: handler disabled?

[+Larry]

Hi Ken-

 

Oops! No, the printer port was still set at P1:. I never thought to look at the printer settings on the MIO menu. Set it to "none" and APE took right off printing.

 

Thanks!

 

-Larry