Please help with the ColecoVision Opgrade Module

[youki]

especially if it were like 1982 again, and DKA was packed in.

 

That's a really excellent idea!.

[+5-11under]

Hi Opcode,

 

I've got a DE1 also, because it was really cheap at the time, and I've wanted to try the FPGA Arcade CV for a while now. Care to share, or am I going to have to try the conversion myself?

 

Thanks,

5-11under

[opcode]

Hi Opcode,

 

I've got a DE1 also, because it was really cheap at the time, and I've wanted to try the FPGA Arcade CV for a while now. Care to share, or am I going to have to try the conversion myself?

 

Thanks,

5-11under

 

Do you want the pof file? The current implementation isn't very useful, as the ROM cartridge is placed inside the pof file, so you need to recompile the whole thing every time you want to change game. Furthermore, the way they implemented the thing limits the cartridge size to 16KB. Finally, the code I have here is a mess, so I will be doing my version from scratch... or almost..

Anyway, if you want the pof file (with DK) let me know...

BTW, good to know you also have a DE1. Perhaps you could help me in the future...

Edited August 9, 2009 by opcode

[+5-11under]

Hi Opcode,

 

I've got a DE1 also, because it was really cheap at the time, and I've wanted to try the FPGA Arcade CV for a while now. Care to share, or am I going to have to try the conversion myself?

 

Thanks,

5-11under

 

Do you want the pof file? The current implementation isn't very useful, as the ROM cartridge is placed inside the pof file, so you need to recompile the whole thing every time you want to change game. Furthermore, the way they implemented the thing limits the cartridge size to 16KB. Finally, the code I have here is a mess, so I will be doing my version from scratch... or almost..

Anyway, if you want the pof file (with DK) let me know...

BTW, good to know you also have a DE1. Perhaps you could help me in the future...

 

Hi opcode,

 

The pof file would be a start, to make sure everything is working. However, the source files as an addition would be best, or at least the files that are different from the FPGA Arcade version. I'm pretty green at vhdl, but this sounds like a good project to get my feet wet. Although it may be pretty complex, I guess if the building blocks are organized, it could be manageable.

 

edit: so yes, I'm willing to help out as I'm able.

 

Thanks,

5-11under

Edited August 9, 2009 by 5-11under

[opcode]

Ok, no problem. I just need to find a place to upload the files. Do you have one?

 

 

Hi Opcode,

 

I've got a DE1 also, because it was really cheap at the time, and I've wanted to try the FPGA Arcade CV for a while now. Care to share, or am I going to have to try the conversion myself?

 

Thanks,

5-11under

 

Do you want the pof file? The current implementation isn't very useful, as the ROM cartridge is placed inside the pof file, so you need to recompile the whole thing every time you want to change game. Furthermore, the way they implemented the thing limits the cartridge size to 16KB. Finally, the code I have here is a mess, so I will be doing my version from scratch... or almost..

Anyway, if you want the pof file (with DK) let me know...

BTW, good to know you also have a DE1. Perhaps you could help me in the future...

 

Hi opcode,

 

The pof file would be a start, to make sure everything is working. However, the source files as an addition would be best, or at least the files that are different from the FPGA Arcade version. I'm pretty green at vhdl, but this sounds like a good project to get my feet wet. Although it may be pretty complex, I guess if the building blocks are organized, it could be manageable.

 

edit: so yes, I'm willing to help out as I'm able.

 

Thanks,

5-11under

[ianoid]

I like the add on deluxe approach but I could have voted for the stand alone too. I only said that because I had my first console phail- my av CV had a contoller chip die. Since I have no technical chops, fixing it is a big deal. I suspect such issues in the future with consoles seem inevitable, I would vote up the stand alone if it has a cart slot. An sd card slot can't cost much more. The engineering would probably be the issue.

[+5-11under]

Hi opcode, PM sent.

 

Thanks,

5-11under

[128Kgames]

Eduardo-

 

I know I'm a little late to this discussion but one option you left off your poll was something you had brought up a few years back: a new motherboard for the CV that incorporated the functions of the OM module. Not to make things more complicated, but wouldn't that solve many problems here?

 

Dead of flaky Coleco consoles could be revived. All the planned OM features supported, as well as back wards compatibility with the expansion modules. No modding of your existing Coleco for AV upgrades etc. Keeping your original MB safe from harm. No need to shop around for a new case for a standalone OM or CV on a chip.

 

I could go on but you get the idea.

 

I was behind your suggestion when you first made it, and I still think its a good one. Any thoughts on this idea now?

[Pixelboy]

Eduardo-

 

I know I'm a little late to this discussion but one option you left off your poll was something you had brought up a few years back: a new motherboard for the CV that incorporated the functions of the OM module. Not to make things more complicated, but wouldn't that solve many problems here?

 

Dead of flaky Coleco consoles could be revived. All the planned OM features supported, as well as back wards compatibility with the expansion modules. No modding of your existing Coleco for AV upgrades etc. Keeping your original MB safe from harm. No need to shop around for a new case for a standalone OM or CV on a chip.

 

I could go on but you get the idea.

 

I was behind your suggestion when you first made it, and I still think its a good one. Any thoughts on this idea now?

OCCV = One-chip ColecoVision = new motherboard for CV that incorporates the OM.

 

It's the third option in the poll.

[128Kgames]

Eduardo-

 

I know I'm a little late to this discussion but one option you left off your poll was something you had brought up a few years back: a new motherboard for the CV that incorporated the functions of the OM module. Not to make things more complicated, but wouldn't that solve many problems here?

 

Dead of flaky Coleco consoles could be revived. All the planned OM features supported, as well as back wards compatibility with the expansion modules. No modding of your existing Coleco for AV upgrades etc. Keeping your original MB safe from harm. No need to shop around for a new case for a standalone OM or CV on a chip.

 

I could go on but you get the idea.

 

I was behind your suggestion when you first made it, and I still think its a good one. Any thoughts on this idea now?

OCCV = One-chip ColecoVision = new motherboard for CV that incorporates the OM.

 

It's the third option in the poll.

 

Ah, thanks Pixelboy, I thought that meant an entirely new console (think Dina-type clone). Then I vote for that option, with option # 2 (pluggable module with advanced AV)being my second choice.

[cimerians]

Well, I dont want to seem like I'm comlaining but I cant really afford to buy add-ons for a 20 year old system and then also buy a new system later on.

 

I simply would think it would be great to have a new system. The following example illustrates why (in my case):

 

All the CV systems I've gone through:

 

System #1. Original unmodded would never play many games, rust everywhere. In storage for parts.

System #2. Original and I modded this with AV but the power switch went bad. Will fix someday.

System #4. Dina.........this is an example of how not to do a new system. Crap.

System #3. Original unmodded, plays many cleaned games very well and someday I will mod this.

 

As you can see, I'm tired of messing with this stuff so I simply just want a new system and be done with it all.

If a new system is released I will buy that or wait to buy that.

[opcode]

I just built a wave table tone generator using VHDL. Very interesting stuff... Did some simulations, seems to be working as expected. Once it is done I hope to hook up the DE1 to my CV and listen to the sound. The language seems to be very powerfull, I created a single tone generator and replicated it 8 times for a 8 channels sound chip. I am using a type of wave table, 32 sampling points of 8 bits per wave. Frequency is defined exactly like the CV PSG. And it should sound like Konami's SCC, but with more channels. Next is the volume control module. The SCC doesn't offer any kind of envelope, but I will be adding that... And stereo pan control too. This thing is gonna sound pretty cool. Wolf is gonna love doing some music for it...

So far I am really having a great time with this thing....

Edited August 10, 2009 by opcode

[King_Salamon]

I thought about this for a few days and went with option 2... something that attaches to the Colecovision with upgrades such as AV.

 

Ultimately, I think playing on the Colecovision is the way to go. And it can provide a good way to get an AV mod without paying for it to get done. No offense to the modders out there as I have purchased some very well done mods but when you have to pay shipping and of course the service fee, it can add up. Other additional features are nice but not a need for me. Adding memory to the system is the goal so really option 1 or 2 are similar for me.

 

Now a standalone CV on a chip idea is a great thing but it loses some of the feel of the classic system. Now this would be viable for newcomers or people with a library of games and a dead old Coleco (which there are plenty I am sure) but does it achieve the goal of the Opgrade Module? And the 2 year minimum wait is a long time to invest time and money with the hopes that it will sell.

 

Now don't get me wrong on a complete system... new controllers and power supply and all those bells and whistles are welcome but I think to get the new games coming out, the most logical step would be an add on for the current system. Perhaps it's success can help determine if a new system would be viable. After all, Opcode makes great games and people want to play the games.

 

As for something to put into broken systems... or to remove working motherboards for the new stuff is not the way to go. You need something anybody can use. People used the expansion port for the Atari add-on so it's not difficult. Plug and play.

 

In the end I would like a new add-on to the existing and if the new titles from Opcode can give users a reason to buy the OM (not just 1 or 2 titles but several) then you are on to something and perhaps a new system will come out of it. In the meantime, something simple and effective is the route I suggest, if there a couple bells and whistles (but not so much as to price your product out of range) then all the more better.

 

Thinking of this... I remember when I first heard about the Flashback 2... Curt did some interesting things with it including having a port to expand the system to allow carts. It was a great idea but I never bothered getting it modded. I do admit that the system played great and having new controllers was a bonus too! I could envision the Colecovision OM flashback in the future... lol

 

In the end, I will buy whatever I need to play Donkey Kong Arcade but I'm not everyone.

[Spector]

I personally think Opcade's role is to provide great new games and conversions, so to also be a modder and console builder may be stretching things a bit. I like the idea of the Opgrade module add on with only the basics for this reason, and it will come around the quickest too.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Spector

[Pixelboy]

As for something to put into broken systems... or to remove working motherboards for the new stuff is not the way to go. You need something anybody can use. People used the expansion port for the Atari add-on so it's not difficult. Plug and play.

Most people who want the replacement motherboard will have to have it installed in the casing by a professional, mostly because it's not just a question of unscrewing the casing, there's also some drilling to do in the back of the casing, just like guys like doubledown do with their A/V and S-Video output mods.

 

All this to say that an external module may be plug-and-play, but I have to agree with others, our CVs are aging fast, and inserting an expansion module into a 25+-year-old unreliable console is not the best approach. The board replacement may not be as easy to perform as an expansion module, but it's a one-time job, and in the end, you get a console that's far more reliable than it ever was, with no extra space taken up.

[youki]

I would prefer to have a new case also instead of just a mother board.

 

I don't mind about the design of the case , could be a very simple square box, it would be enough.

 

Speaking about Flashback 2 . I would take the example of the C64 DTV (which in fact a one chip c64) where lot development have been done for it.

 

It is fully compatible with C64 , and we can manage to connect Disk Drive, SD Card Reader , 2nd joysticks..etc..etc..

 

And also , it enhances C64 capabilities with new screen mode , more colors , better processing etc..etc... There is some development and game that works only on the DTV.

 

Look for instance this C64 DTV video on Youtube

 

 

 

 

What you see is impossible on a C64 ; but doable on the C64 DTV.

 

It is something like that i see for the OneChipCV , except the casing...

[+Yurkie]

I just built a wave table tone generator using VHDL. Very interesting stuff... Did some simulations, seems to be working as expected. Once it is done I hope to hook up the DE1 to my CV and listen to the sound. The language seems to be very powerfull, I created a single tone generator and replicated it 8 times for a 8 channels sound chip. I am using a type of wave table, 32 sampling points of 8 bits per wave. Frequency is defined exactly like the CV PSG. And it should sound like Konami's SCC, but with more channels. Next is the volume control module. The SCC doesn't offer any kind of envelope, but I will be adding that... And stereo pan control too. This thing is gonna sound pretty cool. Wolf is gonna love doing some music for it...

So far I am really having a great time with this thing....

 

Since you are talking about a great sound improvement here, would it be possible to make a Arcade port of Bezerk? I asked a couple programmers and was told with current hardware, the robot speech would be possible but game play would pause when robot phrases where playing. Could this make for smooth continuous game play while robot phrases play? Would love Berzerk for ColecoVision. Dreaming of hearing " Chicken... Fight like a Robot!" Coming out of the TV while I am blasting Robots into scrap metal.

[opcode]

I just built a wave table tone generator using VHDL. Very interesting stuff... Did some simulations, seems to be working as expected. Once it is done I hope to hook up the DE1 to my CV and listen to the sound. The language seems to be very powerfull, I created a single tone generator and replicated it 8 times for a 8 channels sound chip. I am using a type of wave table, 32 sampling points of 8 bits per wave. Frequency is defined exactly like the CV PSG. And it should sound like Konami's SCC, but with more channels. Next is the volume control module. The SCC doesn't offer any kind of envelope, but I will be adding that... And stereo pan control too. This thing is gonna sound pretty cool. Wolf is gonna love doing some music for it...

So far I am really having a great time with this thing....

 

Since you are talking about a great sound improvement here, would it be possible to make a Arcade port of Bezerk? I asked a couple programmers and was told with current hardware, the robot speech would be possible but game play would pause when robot phrases where playing. Could this make for smooth continuous game play while robot phrases play? Would love Berzerk for ColecoVision. Dreaming of hearing " Chicken... Fight like a Robot!" Coming out of the TV while I am blasting Robots into scrap metal.

 

Yep, with the new sound "chip" it could be possible. I am calling it the "CV-82-8950". It's a reference to the AY-3-8910, which was the most popular PSG during the early 80s. -3- was supposed to indicate the # of channels, not sure about 8910, perhaps it is just a sequence of numbers (8 9 10). So for the new virtual chip, 82 means "8 wave table lite channels + 2 ADPCM channels". ADPCM is a kind of compressed PCM, very popular in the 80s. It uses actually very little memory to play back samples at reasonable sampling rates. Not exactly CD quality but still great for classic systems. Better yet, requires very little sample RAM. So the CV-82-8950 is gonna use 32KB, but it could use more if necessary. ADPCM is almost 100% CPU free, the CV-82-8950 takes care of almost everything. The program should just inform the start address of the sample, the end address, and the frequency. The CV-82-8950 will then playback it with no further CPU intervention.

[opcode]

I thought about this for a few days and went with option 2... something that attaches to the Colecovision with upgrades such as AV.

 

I decided to keep things in parallel. I am waiting for the first OM PCB to arrive from the PCB manufacturer, but at the same time I am doing some work with FPGA. Perhaps we could reach a reasonable compromise with a module using large CPLDs like the MAXII. Such module could offer all the features planned for the standalone, and PCB size would be quite small.

 

Ultimately, I think playing on the Colecovision is the way to go. And it can provide a good way to get an AV mod without paying for it to get done. No offense to the modders out there as I have purchased some very well done mods but when you have to pay shipping and of course the service fee, it can add up. Other additional features are nice but not a need for me. Adding memory to the system is the goal so really option 1 or 2 are similar for me.

 

I also agree, nothing replaces the classic hardware, though I understand why we would also need the standalone version. Offering only the standalone version just sounds like cheating to me, because you can basically expand any system using FPGA. The unique thing about the CV is its architecture and the expansion port, so I belive it would be a shame to not offer a plug-in module to use that.

 

Now a standalone CV on a chip idea is a great thing but it loses some of the feel of the classic system. Now this would be viable for newcomers or people with a library of games and a dead old Coleco (which there are plenty I am sure) but does it achieve the goal of the Opgrade Module? And the 2 year minimum wait is a long time to invest time and money with the hopes that it will sell.

 

That's the main problem right now, I don't want to wait 2 years to release my games.

 

Now don't get me wrong on a complete system... new controllers and power supply and all those bells and whistles are welcome but I think to get the new games coming out, the most logical step would be an add on for the current system. Perhaps it's success can help determine if a new system would be viable. After all, Opcode makes great games and people want to play the games.

 

That is exactly how I see things.

 

As for something to put into broken systems... or to remove working motherboards for the new stuff is not the way to go. You need something anybody can use. People used the expansion port for the Atari add-on so it's not difficult. Plug and play.

 

Exactly. Though if I go the standalone route, I would prefer to have a new case for the thing.

 

In the end I would like a new add-on to the existing and if the new titles from Opcode can give users a reason to buy the OM (not just 1 or 2 titles but several) then you are on to something and perhaps a new system will come out of it. In the meantime, something simple and effective is the route I suggest, if there a couple bells and whistles (but not so much as to price your product out of range) then all the more better.

 

Simple however with A/V outs... Contradiction maybe...

 

I am in the middle of a class, so I need to reply in parts. I will discuss how I see things now in a bit...

[128Kgames]

Most people who want the replacement motherboard will have to have it installed in the casing by a professional, mostly because it's not just a question of unscrewing the casing, there's also some drilling to do in the back of the casing, just like guys like doubledown do with their A/V and S-Video output mods.

 

Well, that's not good (drilling). NOT modding the case keeps the system as original as possible should someone want to return it to it's original condition down the road. I really hate cutting holes in those classic cases. I'm sure there is a way to have a drop in motherboard that does not require any modification AND add some modern conveniences (think custom AV/AUDIO cable of some type, like the modern consoles have).

 

It probably just takes more planning, thats all.

[opcode]

Ok, so I am slowly but steadly advancing with my CV-82-8910 design. I have now the 8 tone generators replicated, the 8 wave memories (32 x 8 bits each), and the amplitude controllers for each channel. For now the amplitude controllers offers only sustain level and pan control (for stereo). I plan to add ADSR (envelopes) at some point.

But there is still a lot to do. Noise generator, the mixer, the bus control decoder/register address latch decoder, and I/O buffer. However I am optimistic that all the work would be done until later this month. After that I still have the two ADPCM channels to deal with, but I hope that won't take long.

Once the new "sound chip" is done, I can incorporate it to the existing CV or MSX designs and do some testing. After that I could hook up my CV to the DE1 and check how the chip behaves with a real CV. Once everything is ok I can move to the video chip design. Now that is going to be a lot of fun, as I will need to perfectly emulate the TMS9928, plus add a few extra features. The video encoder will be also integrated into the FPGA, just like the OCM, offering composite video, S-video and RGB.

Finally, supposing all those things go right, I plan to create a module using a small FPGA, with few pins, so we keep costs low. If that can be done with a $20 FPGA, I believe we should be in the right track. After that we can think about a complete system.

[ten-four]

Hey Eduardo ...

Here is a Swedish CV project from 2006 that uses FPGA, maybe you can use some ideas from here.

[Greg2600]

Eduardo, I think the safest thing for you, at this point, is what you're doing. I'm bad with all the acronyms though, was your module going to have an A/V out?

[opcode]

Eduardo, I think the safest thing for you, at this point, is what you're doing. I'm bad with all the acronyms though, was your module going to have an A/V out?

 

I am trying to move things on two fronts, FPGA and off-the-shelf ICs. Today I advanced on the off-the-shelf front, I designed the turbo module. The turbo module allows us to set the CV CPU to work at twice the normal speed (7.14MHz). Clock speed can be selected by software and is set to 3.58MHz by default. But not just that...

1) Wait states that were generated to allow the CV to work with slow ROMs can now be disabled, improving the CPU processing speed by roughly 25% (that with the double clock rate can improve CPU speed by 150%!)

2) NMI generated by the VDP can now be disabled using an I/O port. So a single Z80 instruction can now enable and disable VDP NMIs.

3) The CV PSG sound can be muted thru an I/O port. Before you were required to mute all channels individually, now that can be done with a single instruction

4) Spinner INTs can be disabled thru I/O ports. Previously it wasn't impossible to disable spinner interruptions unless you used the DI instruction (which disable all INTs, not just spinners)

 

In addition to the turbo module I also have the video module done. Actually the video module was done a while ago and I have the video PCB ready to manufacturing, I am just waiting for the first PCB to arrive (with BIOS XP, expanded RAM and PSG+I/O). What is still missing: MegaRAM, IDE and super sound. Actually MegaRAM and IDE are already in schematic form, I just need to create the PCBs. Then I need to test all those sub-systems... and create all the firmware (BIOS, FAT, etc)

Edited August 14, 2009 by opcode

[Pixelboy]

Quick question: Do you intend to include some extra routines converted from the MSX BIOS into your BIOS XP? It may help to make porting certain MSX games easier...