Please help with the ColecoVision Opgrade Module

[opcode]

Guys,

 

Opgrade Module v0.1 is working!

Pictures, videos once I have the time to create some more testing material. I am using an EPROM in place of the flash memory, and of course that means a lot more work to modify and test the BIOS XP. So for now I am using the original BIOS in the first 8KB of the BIOS XP. However I have the OM version of Knightmare ready that uses expanded RAM and PSG. I will test that tomorrow morning. Right now I need some sleep...

Joy, joy...

[opcode]

First picure of the prototype assembled. Again, it has the expanded RAM, all the memory and I/O decoding, BIOS XP (for now using a regular EPROM), the BIOS mapper, the PSG sound generator and the I/O port. I/O port of course will change in the final version, probably to a DB25.

The board boots and games that requires expanded RAM are working. I haven't tested the BIOS mapper and PSG yet though.

Back in a few hours with the results of Knightmare using the PSG...

[opcode]

Just tested Knightmare OM and the PSG sound is working. Crystal clear sound, though the general volume level is a little low compared to the CV PSG. Replacing one of the resistors should solve that though.

I cannot wait to hear DKA using all the 6 PSG channels.

Next week I should start development of the BIOS XP. I am very excited about the GUI, I think it is going to be pretty cool. SO far the only bit of the BIOS I have already done is the new boot screen for Coleco made games. I think I posted it here a while ago.

[ten-four]

Wow...

 

Eduardo, it is simply amazing, and a really nice little Module that you made there.

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished result.

 

Continues to follow developments closely.

[Murph74]

My hero!

[purenergy]

Incredible!

 

Can't wait....

 

Thanks, and keep up the great work!

[frank_c]

great news!

 

i guess it's time to complete the mods i have planned for my CV...

[opcode]

Now lets exercise a what-if scenario:

The next version of the OM will include, in addition to all the features available in the current prototype, Compact Flash slot and MegaRAM (to simulate a bank-switch capable CV cartridge. So the complete list of features would be like:

- BIOS XP (128KB of flash memory), to control the advanced functions, boot, backward compatible with CV BIOS, IDE access functions, FAT16 access functions

- expanded RAM (24KB), replaces original 1KB

- Slot selector, selects between CV cartridge and MegaRAM. Divides cartridge memory space into 4 pages of 8KB, each page can map either cartridge or MegaRAM independently, very flexible

- MegaRAM, 128KB of RAM divided into banks of 8KB. MegaRAM mapper can map any bank to any of the four pages (8000h,A000h,C000h,E000h). Very powerful. Games can be downloaded from the CF to the MegaRAM and run as regular cartridges

- PSG, AY-3-8910 sound generator, similar but more powerful than the CV sound generator. Total sound capacity would be 6 simultaneous sound channels

- I/O port, 16-bits bidirectional port accessible thru a DB25 connector. Used to communication with advanced controllers, connection CV-to-CV or CV-to-PC.

- Audio output RCA jack

- Compact Flash slot, supports FAT16 (2GB max). Can be used to load or save data, like ROM images, high-scores, save games and more

 

Now the question: how many of you would be interested on getting an expansion module like that sometime next year, with Donkey Kong Arcade included, and probably at least a 2nd game available on or closer to the release date, for around 50 bucks? The standalone CV2 would then wait another year or two and include, in addition to all the OM features above, also the advanced video and audio capabilities we have been discussing (V9958, YM2151, turbo, etc).

Here are the pros and cons:

 

=== Pros

- Can ship sooner

- A lot cheaper to produce

- Don’t mess up with the CV processing, video and audio capabilities, so games still look “ColecoVision-ish”

- Several games in the pipeline don't require anything beyond the hardware above (DKA, Arkanoid, Knightmare, Goonies, Yie Ar Kung-Fu II, Gradius, Penguin Adventure...)

- The CF + MegaRAM alone is a very useful feature for all CV fans that just want to play regular CV games without using cartridges (from ROM images, just like "Cuttle Carts"

 

=== Cons

- Dependent of stock CV to work

- Doesn't include video outputs

- Doesn't include any of the more advanced features

 

As a final remark, I am about to start designing the PCB for the second version of the OM (schematics were completed this week), with all the features described above. I believe I should get the PCB for such a system around November. In case you guys think the alternative I am proposing is ok, I should expend the next half year refining the PCB, reducing the components to SMD, designing the case (actually my wife would be doing that) and of course developing the firmware and finishing DKA.

So please tell me, yes or no...

[Pixelboy]

From the posts I've seen earlier in this thread, I'd say a highly significant amount of people consider the modern A/V outputs very important to them, so if you're going to be doing the CV2 some time in the future, you might as well start working on it now. That's just my opinion, of course.

[opcode]

From the posts I've seen earlier in this thread, I'd say a highly significant amount of people consider the modern A/V outputs very important to them, so if you're going to be doing the CV2 some time in the future, you might as well start working on it now. That's just my opinion, of course.

 

But that is what you want? I thought you wanted it simple...

Anyways, I thought that we would be better served for now with something simpler, less expensive and available sooner. The standalone we have been talking about could require perhaps a couple of years of development time. Remember, I am not a company with lots of people and resources, I am a single individual (who couldn't get a single soul to help with the save game format mind you). As much as I am excited about the idea of a standalone, for me that means not more games for a couple of years, which is a very frustrating thought. By then the CV scene could well be gone, who knows. If we go with the module as proposed above, it would be halfway of the standalone, giving me time to release some games in between. I don't know, I am trying hard to make as much people happy as possible, but at the same time I want to be practical and also enjoy the whole process. Of course some could say that I should have stayed with the plain vanilla CV and saved me of all the trouble.

Ok, back to the drawing board I think…..

 

EDIT: thinking better, considering that the video part doesn't need any kind of firmware, I guess it wouldn't be a big problem to include the V9958, except price (I estimate that the video system will add around $30 to the price. The problem is, as I said, the V9958 brings a few overheads, so a Z80 turbo mode would be advised. And once we have included all this stuff we are so close to the proposed CV2 that why don't we go the extra mile and include the YM2151 too? Oh, the dilemma...

Edited September 6, 2009 by opcode

[Spector]

 

 

Now the question: how many of you would be interested on getting an expansion module like that sometime next year, with Donkey Kong Arcade included, and probably at least a 2nd game available on or closer to the release date, for around 50 bucks? The standalone CV2 would then wait another year or two and include, in addition to all the OM features above, also the advanced video and audio capabilities we have been discussing (V9958, YM2151, turbo, etc).

So please tell me, yes or no...

 

YES!

[Murph74]

Eduardo,

 

Based on what you've said about the extra RAM in the Adam, is the Opcode Module even a necessity to keep producing games? Couldn't your games come out on an Adam cartridge until the CV2 is ready for release? The Flashram multicart idea is cool too, but I think most of us who are still spending on coleco hardware probably already have the Atarimax cartridge, so it may be redundant (not to mention the Adam can also backup cartridges to tape or disk if you have an Adam). Or at the very least, make the games available for the Adam without needing to buy the OM should you continue to develop it.

 

I'm thrilled with the work you're doing, but agree with Pixelboy that the video outputs are highly desired by most (and already on the Adam). I would suggest possibly polling about the availability/ownership of Adams (is E-coleco still alive?) and maybe look at skipping the stripped down OM in favor of the CV2.

 

Just a thought... I'm 99% likely to buy whatever you produce as long as I don't have to take out a loan to do so.

[opcode]

Eduardo,

 

Based on what you've said about the extra RAM in the Adam, is the Opcode Module even a necessity to keep producing games?

 

I was hopeful that I would rely on that, but so far I have got less than 20 orders for Knightmare ADAM. That's ok to have the game released as cartridge only, but hardly justify the production costs with printed material. I would then be forced to raise the price or cut on stuff like boxes, which I really don't want to do.

The reality is, the ADAM is far from popular it seems. And I don't see people buying ADAMs just to play my games. And of course I prefer to have the games released for the CV instead of (or in addition to) the ADAM, there is the emotional factor there.

That is why I thought that a less expensive module would be a good option for now. If we can produce a module that costs less than 2 games (and considering it comes already packaged with a game), I believe it would be a pretty good deal.

 

Couldn't your games come out on an Adam cartridge until the CV2 is ready for release? The Flashram multicart idea is cool too, but I think most of us who are still spending on coleco hardware probably already have the Atarimax cartridge, so it may be redundant (not to mention the Adam can also backup cartridges to tape or disk if you have an Adam). Or at the very least, make the games available for the Adam without needing to buy the OM should you continue to develop it.

That would be ok, I really don't care about the hardware from the business point-of-view, I will be selling them at the cost. That is an option I will probably adopt, starting with Knightmare. However I would like people to play the game with the OM if possible, because of the added features, like sound and storage. The games I release for the ADAM will be modified versions of the games I release for the OM. For example, Knightmare uses the OM PSG for sound, so the ADAM version will have slightly different sounds and music...

 

I'm thrilled with the work you're doing, but agree with Pixelboy that the video outputs are highly desired by most (and already on the Adam). I would suggest possibly polling about the availability/ownership of Adams (is E-coleco still alive?) and maybe look at skipping the stripped down OM in favor of the CV2.

 

Just a thought... I'm 99% likely to buy whatever you produce as long as I don't have to take out a loan to do so.

 

e-coleco sells ADAMs for $100+. The OM should cost a fraction of that. If you prefer you would think of the OM as the pack-in hardware for DKA.

Come on, I have seen CollectorVision selling some of their games for $60. We are talking about that kind of price for the OM + DKA... (btw, I am not criticizing CollectorVision or anything. I know that J-F uses a different production approach for his games, which guarantees that he gets a lot of releases within a small period of time, and that costs money)

But don't worry about the CV2, as long as I am involved with the CV I will be pursuing it. Once the OM is released we should be halfway from the standalone...

[+5-11under]

Hi opcode,

 

I like the simple approach, and for $50, with DKA, I would definitely buy one. This is coming from someone who doesn't own a single homebrew, except my own.

 

The CF and MegaRAM are very appealing to me.

 

Thanks,

5-11under

[dano]

It's a yes for me.

[ten-four]

And of course I prefer to have the games released for the CV instead of (or in addition to) the ADAM, there is the emotional factor there.

That is why I thought that a less expensive module would be a good option for now. If we can produce a module that costs less than 2 games (and considering it comes already packaged with a game), I believe it would be a pretty good deal.

 

Hi Eduardo...

 

It is a pretty good deal, and i'm in for the version you will release.

 

Unlike Team Pixelboy, i can easily wait with the AV Out -until you made the long waiting CV2.

 

My CBS-CV has RGB Out via Scart from the factory.

 

I am one of them which have neither ADAM or the 128:1 Muliticart.

[OldAtarian]

Why not release a minimalist version and a fully loaded version? That way those with lesser budgets can try it out while those who can afford to pay more can get the version with more bling. They will both still share a lot of common components, so you'll still realize some economies of scale on those parts. I find that with a lot of these classic gaming/computing projects that they tend to go overboard one way or the other and end up alienating a lot of potential buyers by being either too minimalist or too expensive. By making two versions you can satisfy a larger segment of the market.

[Foster]

Yes to both! I would happily buy one of your current add-on boards and then a standalone unit in a couple years.

 

I personally think you've got a great plan in place. I'm looking forward to following your progress!!

 

... Steve

[youki]

About 50 Bucks for O.M and DKA ?

 

You mean DKA on cartridge with packaging. Or you mean DKA built'in in the OM ?

[cybercylon]

My vote would be to release the simpler version. With the DKA as a pack-in, $50.00 is a very good deal. I wouldn't hesitate to get one. Plus, the ability to use Rom images so I don't have to drag stuff out of the garage just because I have a hankering to play Pepper 2... another big plus.

 

But....

 

I know this won't include AV ports. I don't care about that personally since I've modded my CV anyway, so having them in the module would be redundant for me... at least I assume all of our AV mods would still work with the simple version of the module. Now how many CV owners on these board have already modded their CV?

 

Okay... so the output part of "advanced AV" I can grasp. What does (V9958, YM2151, turbo, etc) mean in plain English? In other words, are there going to be games that will only run on the CV2 and won't run on the regular CV with the expansion model? You would be dividing your market. Is that something you want to do? How much would it be to add those advanced features to the expansion module? Does that increase development time? Are those extra chips really that important? I'm sure you are asking yourself those questions already.

 

Whatever you decide, I hope enough can be made so that one is able to get one even if they miss the original order. Wish I could help you in that regard. Once you get the final design down, maybe you could get a volunteer or two to help you with production?

[opcode]

About 50 Bucks for O.M and DKA ?

 

You mean DKA on cartridge with packaging. Or you mean DKA built'in in the OM ?

 

Cartridge, manual, no box.

I am sure that the OM as described above should cost around $30 to manufacture (the electronic part of it) using mostly SMD ICs. The big question is the plastic case... And there may be another problem, which perhaps force me to go the original full module route... The CV RF seems to be very sensitive to any device connected to the expansion port that isn't shielded... And can try to minimize that in my next prototype, but I don't know...

BTW, would someone from Canada help me contacting an edge connector supplier, please? The only company I could find that still produces "90 degrees" 60 pin female edge connectors is located somewhere in Canada, and I am in need of a half dozen sample connectors for the next prototypes. Please contact me if you live in Canada and are willing to help...

[opcode]

Forget what I said about interference. I was using a bad cable. Luc, that solves the problem with the ADAM too...

[purenergy]

A big Yes to any version. A low cost version sounds great, and should be supported be many Colecovision fans!

If a high-end version is created, put me on that list also.

 

Thanks

[+retroclouds]

Hi Eduardo,

 

I've been reading about your progress on the OM with much interest. I think the OM will be a huge success,

especially with such reasonable price.

 

My question is regarding the BIOS XP: Will you consider opening the specifications for other homebrewers or will it

be closed source? will for example other homebrewers be able to access the advanced features like compact flash, etc.

 

Either way I think the OM will be a great product :-)

 

 

retroclouds

[128Kgames]

Eduardo-

 

As far a an OM vs OM light, will there be any games produced that will run on one but not the other? In other words can you foresee any games that would need the capabilities of the full module and say not be playable on the light version?