Atari 8 bit repros at Video 61

[BrianC]

I have been getting more Atari 800 stuff lately. I just got Rescue on Fractalus, Robotron, and Lode Runner for the Atari 8 bit from B&C and I'm loving them (love B&C too. The two "cart only" games, Robotron and Lode Runner came with the manuals). I heard some good things about Video 61, but I'm wondering about some of their repros. They have stuff I haven't seen on other sites like Night Mission, Dropzone, and Boulderdash. Are these made with permission from the authors? I know Xenophobe is, but I'm not sure about some of the others. They also have a translator cart I'm on the fence of getting (tried to look up translator disks, but couldn't find specific info in a search).

[Tin_Lunchbox]

I would be flabbergasted to find that business agreements had been forged with the diverse owners of the intellectual property represented in that list of cartridges. It is possible that some of the titles were somewhere at some point expressly released by the owners into the public domain.

[BrianC]

I would be flabbergasted to find that business agreements had been forged with the diverse owners of the intellectual property represented in that list of cartridges. It is possible that some of the titles were somewhere at some point expressly released by the owners into the public domain.

 

Definitely not public domain. Boulderdash is one where the owners have been touchy about people selling or making clones without permission. Previous posts here suggest Lance gets permission for some of the games, but I wanted to hear something more concrete due to the amount of games not listed elsewhere. I plan to get some of these games, but I want to be sure these are legit. Boulderdash and Dropzone are two I plan to pick up, but I don't want to get pirated versions. How much do these go for loose. I haven't seen them on ebay. With BD I have the NES and GBA versions, but I heard the 800 one is the best. Dropzone does some good stuff with the Atari 8 bit and while importing the GBC one to avoid PAL issues is a option, the 800 one is the one I rather get.

[BrianC]

I also read an post on these forums from around 2001 that said Video 61 got permission for Encounter and Mercenary on cart, but they aren't offered there. Did that deal fall through? I heard those are amoung the best on the system and I would like US cart or disk versions of both. I haven't seen the US disk ones on ebay and I don't have a cassette player for 800. A post here suggests the PAL Mercenary isn't NTSC friendly either.

Edited February 24, 2011 by BrianC

[BrianC]

I emailed First Star. A similar question asking about Video 61 repros in a different topic had no reply for three years. To make matters worse the reply after three years left the question unanswered and a complaint about someone bringing up an old topic was what happened when the unanswered question was brought back up. The replies afterward didn't provide an answer either. Pathetic for a question to be unanswered for that long (no it wasn't my post).

Edited February 25, 2011 by BrianC

[Kjmann]

I emailed First Star. A similar question asking about Video 61 repros in a different topic had no reply for three years. To make matters worse the reply after three years left the question unanswered and a complaint about someone bringing up an old topic was what happened when the unanswered question was brought back up. The replies afterward didn't provide an answer either. Pathetic for a question to be unanswered for that long (no it wasn't my post).

 

 

Lance (Video61) Has Permission For All The Games He Sells.

[+orpheuswaking]

just because they are released as repros by Video 61 doesn't mean they are "us" releases... As far as I know there were no changes made, so any PAL issues would still remain...

 

Speaking specifically for Dropzone, the author has stated several times that he wrote pretty tight code optimized for the PAL machines, there really isn't much that will fix it for NTSC machines, I've played multiple versions on NTSC hardware and it BLOWS, same running on PAL is awesome...

 

I would hazard a guess that Mercenary is the same (I have tape and disk UK versions)

[BrianC]

ok thanks. I found this site at http://www.spaceweb.us/newsletter/2002/news0204.html that said he got permission from Archer McLean. Video 61 is a US site, so I doubt they are made for PAL (and the post on Mercenary suggests that they are coded to work on US machines. One difference between Mercenary and Dropzone is that Dropzone is listed for sale and Mercenary isn't), but Dropzone does sound like one that might not optimize well. It sounds like the coding for some of these carts were done by fellow Atariage members, so maybe they could shed some light on this?

 

I know Dropzone has an official US disk release as well. Are you saying that the official US disk wasn't optimized? edit: read your high score post. ugh. I hate it when US releases aren't optimized. I guess I may be importing that GBC dropzone.

 

Would a PAL OS on a NEC JC-1215 MA monitor do the trick?

Edited February 25, 2011 by BrianC

[Shawn Jefferson]

Lance (Video61) Has Permission For All The Games He Sells.

 

Xenophobe? I seem to remember this one being bought and "released" by Fandal, but not the original authors.

 

Eye of the Beholder on the Lynx. Lode Runner on the Lynx. etc.... Those are only the ones I know about, I'm sure there are many more.

[BrianC]

I think I'll put off ordering from Video 61 until get more info. I plan get some of the repros of unreleased games like Berzerk (though that was released on 5200) and maybe Super Pac-Man from either B&C or Best Electronics. I heard Jr. Pac-Man 5200 has a bug. Is this true of the 800 one from B&C, or does it differ a bit?

Edited February 25, 2011 by BrianC

[Tin_Lunchbox]

ok thanks. I found this site at http://www.spaceweb.us/newsletter/2002/news0204.html that said he got permission from Archer McLean. [text clipped for brevity]

 

Ah, I see where it quotes a 2002 press release: "The first of the famous SCOTT ADAMS S.A.G.A. Graphics adventures is now available on cartridge for the atari 400/800/xl/xe/xegm computers. Memory requirements are 48k. This is an awesome achievement by the combined talents of three very gifted, and dedicated atari coders. Special thanks to SCOTT ADAMS for permission to release his ground breaking games on cartridge. Thanks, Lance."

 

Reconsidering it, over time surely the requisite permissions could have been amassed. An email here, an express PD release there, etc. An official U.S. copyright document also says: "For works first published on and after March 1, 1989, use of the copyright notice is optional. Before March 1, 1989, the use of the notice was mandatory on all published works. Omitting the notice on any work first published before that date could have resulted in the loss of copyright protection if corrective steps were not taken within a certain amount of time" (copyright PDF). No doubt that applies to a lot of Atari 8bit software published before March 1, 1989 that did not include any copyright notice. However I do not mean to say that is done by Video 61! Only that it is a possibility in general.

 

I think in any event it's not something you could be faulted over if you purchased some, BrianC. I mean we don't question whether Microsoft or Apple or Ubisoft or Gamestop or Walmart software is legitimate. If you buy something, please review it for us.

[Kjmann]

I think I'll put off ordering from Video 61 until get more info. I plan get some of the repros of unreleased games like Berzerk (though that was released on 5200) and maybe Super Pac-Man from either B&C or Best Electronics. I heard Jr. Pac-Man 5200 has a bug. Is this true of the 800 one from B&C, or does it differ a bit?

The Super Pac-Man and Jr. Pac-Man that Lance and I sell at our Stores are Final Releases that do NOT have the Bugs in them.

[tep392]

I emailed First Star. A similar question asking about Video 61 repros in a different topic had no reply for three years. To make matters worse the reply after three years left the question unanswered and a complaint about someone bringing up an old topic was what happened when the unanswered question was brought back up. The replies afterward didn't provide an answer either. Pathetic for a question to be unanswered for that long (no it wasn't my post).

 

 

Lance (Video61) Has Permission For All The Games He Sells.

 

I don't see the word reproduction anywhere in Lance's 400/800 cart list. How do I tell if a cart is proto, repro or original?

 

Perry

[qix_maniac]

I emailed First Star. A similar question asking about Video 61 repros in a different topic had no reply for three years. To make matters worse the reply after three years left the question unanswered and a complaint about someone bringing up an old topic was what happened when the unanswered question was brought back up. The replies afterward didn't provide an answer either. Pathetic for a question to be unanswered for that long (no it wasn't my post).

 

 

Lance (Video61) Has Permission For All The Games He Sells.

 

I don't see the word reproduction anywhere in Lance's 400/800 cart list. How do I tell if a cart is proto, repro or original?

 

Perry

 

Good point. I agree, if you are selling atari "vintage" games if the game is a reproduction then it should be flagged as such so there is no confusion. I don't want to buy a Matterhorn for $19.95 and be mad it's not original

 

as stated in previous post, reproductions that fix bugs and make cool enhancements to favorite all time games are a cool thing!

[BrianC]

I emailed First Star. A similar question asking about Video 61 repros in a different topic had no reply for three years. To make matters worse the reply after three years left the question unanswered and a complaint about someone bringing up an old topic was what happened when the unanswered question was brought back up. The replies afterward didn't provide an answer either. Pathetic for a question to be unanswered for that long (no it wasn't my post).

 

 

Lance (Video61) Has Permission For All The Games He Sells.

 

I don't see the word reproduction anywhere in Lance's 400/800 cart list. How do I tell if a cart is proto, repro or original?

 

Perry

 

A post I found by searching these forums said that the Boulderdash cart is a repro with a printed label. I think that site should make it more clear which games are repros since some originals are mixed in there.

Edited February 25, 2011 by BrianC

[+orpheuswaking]

ok thanks. I found this site at http://www.spaceweb....2/news0204.html that said he got permission from Archer McLean. Video 61 is a US site, so I doubt they are made for PAL (and the post on Mercenary suggests that they are coded to work on US machines. One difference between Mercenary and Dropzone is that Dropzone is listed for sale and Mercenary isn't), but Dropzone does sound like one that might not optimize well. It sounds like the coding for some of these carts were done by fellow Atariage members, so maybe they could shed some light on this?

 

I know Dropzone has an official US disk release as well. Are you saying that the official US disk wasn't optimized? edit: read your high score post. ugh. I hate it when US releases aren't optimized. I guess I may be importing that GBC dropzone.

 

Would a PAL OS on a NEC JC-1215 MA monitor do the trick?

 

I have both NTSC and PAL machines for just this reason (well that and I brought a couple of PAL over with me when I moved here)... If you look up the article with the Archer interview you will find he had no idea it was even released over here and was a little upset at it as he knew he coded it for PAL specifically...

 

For mercenary though I'm not sure there is anything in the game that is affected specifically with NTSC vs PAL (not that I've noticed)

[BrianC]

ok thanks. I found this site at http://www.spaceweb....2/news0204.html that said he got permission from Archer McLean. Video 61 is a US site, so I doubt they are made for PAL (and the post on Mercenary suggests that they are coded to work on US machines. One difference between Mercenary and Dropzone is that Dropzone is listed for sale and Mercenary isn't), but Dropzone does sound like one that might not optimize well. It sounds like the coding for some of these carts were done by fellow Atariage members, so maybe they could shed some light on this?

 

I know Dropzone has an official US disk release as well. Are you saying that the official US disk wasn't optimized? edit: read your high score post. ugh. I hate it when US releases aren't optimized. I guess I may be importing that GBC dropzone.

 

Would a PAL OS on a NEC JC-1215 MA monitor do the trick?

 

I have both NTSC and PAL machines for just this reason (well that and I brought a couple of PAL over with me when I moved here)... If you look up the article with the Archer interview you will find he had no idea it was even released over here and was a little upset at it as he knew he coded it for PAL specifically...

 

For mercenary though I'm not sure there is anything in the game that is affected specifically with NTSC vs PAL (not that I've noticed)

 

ok cool. Anyway, would a multi-OS mod be a good solution to playing PAL games? The NEC monitor I use has a switch that changes the color settings and vertical hold. Is that sufficent for handling PAL?

Edited February 25, 2011 by BrianC

[+orpheuswaking]

ok thanks. I found this site at http://www.spaceweb....2/news0204.html that said he got permission from Archer McLean. Video 61 is a US site, so I doubt they are made for PAL (and the post on Mercenary suggests that they are coded to work on US machines. One difference between Mercenary and Dropzone is that Dropzone is listed for sale and Mercenary isn't), but Dropzone does sound like one that might not optimize well. It sounds like the coding for some of these carts were done by fellow Atariage members, so maybe they could shed some light on this?

 

I know Dropzone has an official US disk release as well. Are you saying that the official US disk wasn't optimized? edit: read your high score post. ugh. I hate it when US releases aren't optimized. I guess I may be importing that GBC dropzone.

 

Would a PAL OS on a NEC JC-1215 MA monitor do the trick?

 

I have both NTSC and PAL machines for just this reason (well that and I brought a couple of PAL over with me when I moved here)... If you look up the article with the Archer interview you will find he had no idea it was even released over here and was a little upset at it as he knew he coded it for PAL specifically...

 

For mercenary though I'm not sure there is anything in the game that is affected specifically with NTSC vs PAL (not that I've noticed)

 

ok cool. Anyway, would a multi-OS mod be a good solution to playing PAL games? The NEC monitor I use has a switch that changes the color settings and vertical hold. Is that sufficent for handling PAL?

 

Multi OS isn't going to help, you need to replace ANTIC (if I recall correctly - There are lots of threads about it here on AA) depending on the monitor it may or may not be able to handle a pal signal.

[BrianC]

ok thanks. I found this site at http://www.spaceweb....2/news0204.html that said he got permission from Archer McLean. Video 61 is a US site, so I doubt they are made for PAL (and the post on Mercenary suggests that they are coded to work on US machines. One difference between Mercenary and Dropzone is that Dropzone is listed for sale and Mercenary isn't), but Dropzone does sound like one that might not optimize well. It sounds like the coding for some of these carts were done by fellow Atariage members, so maybe they could shed some light on this?

 

I know Dropzone has an official US disk release as well. Are you saying that the official US disk wasn't optimized? edit: read your high score post. ugh. I hate it when US releases aren't optimized. I guess I may be importing that GBC dropzone.

 

Would a PAL OS on a NEC JC-1215 MA monitor do the trick?

 

I have both NTSC and PAL machines for just this reason (well that and I brought a couple of PAL over with me when I moved here)... If you look up the article with the Archer interview you will find he had no idea it was even released over here and was a little upset at it as he knew he coded it for PAL specifically...

 

For mercenary though I'm not sure there is anything in the game that is affected specifically with NTSC vs PAL (not that I've noticed)

 

ok cool. Anyway, would a multi-OS mod be a good solution to playing PAL games? The NEC monitor I use has a switch that changes the color settings and vertical hold. Is that sufficent for handling PAL?

 

Multi OS isn't going to help, you need to replace ANTIC (if I recall correctly - There are lots of threads about it here on AA) depending on the monitor it may or may not be able to handle a pal signal.

 

ok thanks. I'll look up one of those threads later.

[video61atarisales]

I have been getting more Atari 800 stuff lately. I just got Rescue on Fractalus, Robotron, and Lode Runner for the Atari 8 bit from B&C and I'm loving them (love B&C too. The two "cart only" games, Robotron and Lode Runner came with the manuals). I heard some good things about Video 61, but I'm wondering about some of their repros. They have stuff I haven't seen on other sites like Night Mission, Dropzone, and Boulderdash. Are these made with permission from the authors? I know Xenophobe is, but I'm not sure about some of the others. They also have a translator cart I'm on the fence of getting (tried to look up translator disks, but couldn't find specific info in a search).

 

 

i received a e-mail from mr. Richard M. Spitalny of first star software, notifying me of copy right infringement. it covered every first star product that i sell(NOTICE OF: Copyright and Trademark Infringement.). i have spent many, many man hour's gathering as much firststar software that i could get to in a reasonable time in my warehouse to take pictures of them, and upload them to firststar. i work the warehouse myself, i have somewhere between 20-30,000 games left covering all atari machines that i sell for. pulling the games takes time, and lots of labor.

i then took pictures of them, spent time conversing with my lawyer about this, then conversing with mr. spitalny about this, and he looked at what i had, and agreed its all legit. and you have set me back many man hours, and hundreds of dollars of legal fees and lost man hours.

i have permission from archer mcclean to publish dropzone, as well as international world karate. i spent many years and lots of money, going back to 1983, purchasing these games, getting permission, or out right ownership of some of them, such as pandora softwares powerstar, i own it lock stock and barrel, as i do with some others.

kjman was also cleared. so what are you going to do to make this up to me? i expect a answer on a timely basis. my e-mail address is video61@tcq.net

[BrianC]

I have been getting more Atari 800 stuff lately. I just got Rescue on Fractalus, Robotron, and Lode Runner for the Atari 8 bit from B&C and I'm loving them (love B&C too. The two "cart only" games, Robotron and Lode Runner came with the manuals). I heard some good things about Video 61, but I'm wondering about some of their repros. They have stuff I haven't seen on other sites like Night Mission, Dropzone, and Boulderdash. Are these made with permission from the authors? I know Xenophobe is, but I'm not sure about some of the others. They also have a translator cart I'm on the fence of getting (tried to look up translator disks, but couldn't find specific info in a search).

 

 

i received a e-mail from mr. Richard M. Spitalny of first star software, notifying me of copy right infringement. it covered every first star product that i sell(NOTICE OF: Copyright and Trademark Infringement.). i have spent many, many man hour's gathering as much firststar software that i could get to in a reasonable time in my warehouse to take pictures of them, and upload them to firststar. i work the warehouse myself, i have somewhere between 20-30,000 games left covering all atari machines that i sell for. pulling the games takes time, and lots of labor.

i then took pictures of them, spent time conversing with my lawyer about this, then conversing with mr. spitalny about this, and he looked at what i had, and agreed its all legit. and you have set me back many man hours, and hundreds of dollars of legal fees and lost man hours.

i have permission from archer mcclean to publish dropzone, as well as international world karate. i spent many years and lots of money, going back to 1983, purchasing these games, getting permission, or out right ownership of some of them, such as pandora softwares powerstar, i own it lock stock and barrel, as i do with some others.

kjman was also cleared. so what are you going to do to make this up to me? i expect a answer on a timely basis. my e-mail address is video61@tcq.net

 

I'm sorry, I only meant to check with them since I thought for sure they would know if someone made a deal with them. I was not expecting them to be ignorant of any deals made or for them to take action before checking first. I like to be cautious before making a purchase, and I didn't intend to cause trouble. My email is brianc1825@hotmail.com.

Edited February 26, 2011 by BrianC

[classics]

Aren't the original FSS carts pretty distinctive? Custom cases with foil labels?

 

It should be pretty easy to distinguish a real one from a reproduction, unless its pretty well done.

 

Steve

Edited February 26, 2011 by classics

[BrianC]

This is where I read about Boulderdash being a repro. I don't understand this tone from a professional seller. I'm not out to hurt your business and these threats and the very idea that I owe you for asking questions that could have very well led to a sale from you is downright insulting. BTW, I find it especially insulting to be told about how you sell games cart only, as if I didn't know the difference between a repro and a cart only game (and some of the games you sell cart only aren't listed as such on your site. Not to mention that you sell cart only games for the same price as new ones). BTW, if you want people to buy your games, threats and rudeness is not the way to go about it. You lost a customer.

 

edit: I got another email from firststar. It appears you weren't being 100% honest with me. The email was aynomnous and I only mentioned that I emailed first star in this forum. I didn't mention the details. Also, you could have directly replied to my previous messages, but you chose to wait for firststar to email you instead? You want your business to do well, but you pull this crap?

Edited February 26, 2011 by BrianC

[video61atarisales]

This is where I read about Boulderdash being a repro. I don't understand this tone from a professional seller.

 

 

 

you do not understand how the copyright laws work then.

 

 

I'm not out to hurt your business and these threats and the very idea that I owe you for asking questions that could have very well led to a sale from you is downright insulting.

 

 

you cost me money and time. if i am going to buy a chevy, i do not run to g.m. and demand to know if the seller can sell the chevy. if you understood how copyright laws work, the copyright owner must challenge the person etc. that they think are infringing. this costs both parties time and money.

so i had to prove that all of my first star stuff was legit, which i did. as i told you, some stuff i got straight from atari, its why they are loose, some of these loose carts titles, i got a 100 or more of each title. first star recognized me, as soon as i mentioned one name to them from their past. i used to distribute for them.

 

 

BTW, I find it especially insulting to be told about how you sell games cart only,

 

 

gee, i did not know it was insulting to sell loose carts. every once in a while i run into people who tell me how to run my business, or think that they run my business.

 

as if I didn't know the difference between a repro and a cart only game

 

 

have you ever seen rolls of programmed e-proms in bubble static packaging? i bet not. but if you pop the e-proms into a cart, they work sometimes. i bought many rolls of them out of atari, besides the loose carts. so what you call a repro, might not be one. if it was done by a professional company like atari.

i have carts from atari that have just one letter on the shell, like a d, but if you pop it into a xe, its deflector. all i do is put a label on it. you call that a repro, but i purchased them that way out of atari.

 

 

(and some of the games you sell cart only aren't listed as such on your site. Not to mention that you sell cart only games for the same price as new ones).

 

 

and i also say if you have questions, please ask. and why can't i charge what i want, after all, i paid good money for these. i own them and i have a over head i must pay.

 

BTW, if you want people to buy your games, threats and rudeness is not the way to go about it. You lost a customer.

 

 

 

what threats. you cost both companies time and money. both companies spent most of the day, trying to rectify your ignorance. you might want to simply apologize instead of blustering try to save face. after what you did, how do you know i would ever sell to you?

[BrianC]

I think this says it all:

No problem Brian. Thank you for contacting us in the first place. We certainly didn't mean to get you involved. As it turned out Video61 did indeed have TONS of finished goods they purchased from different sources decades ago; but, they (as well as Atari Sales) do make cartridges today and that is not permitted-well it wasn't but we'll be working out a royalty structure with Atari Sales (who sells carts to Video61) so everyone benefits.

Thank you again for your kind understanding.

Have a great weekend,

Richard

------Original Message------

From: Brian Clark

To: Richard Spitalny

Subject: Re: Email about video 61

Sent: Feb 25, 2011 9:35 PM

 

ok. Thanks for the reply. Sorry about the tone in last message. It seems Video 61 wasn't honest with me and I'm sorry I was hasty.

 

On Feb 25, 2011, at 8:54 PM, rspitalny@firststarsoftware.com wrote:

 

Brian,

I'm sorry you feel you were caught in the middle. We NEVER mentioned you or anyone by name.

We did deep research before contacting them.

BOTH companies DO manufacture new copies of our games and this had to be resolved and has been to everyone's mutual satisfaction.

The inventory that Video61 has, that is original is different.

We have no idea how this somehow made its way back to you but I do apologize.

The conversation with Video61 occurred late on a Friday and Dianne had left and she wanted to contact you herself and had no idea that this couldn't wait until Monday.

Again, we're sorry,

Richard

(President, First Star Software)

------Original Message------

From: Brian Clark

To: info@firststarsoftware.com

Subject: Email about video 61

Sent: Feb 25, 2011 8:11 PM

 

Dear Firststar,

 

I had a nasty reply from video 61 due to your mistake in going straight to accusing them. I asked if they were legit with Boulderdash becuase I thought you would know for sure about this matter rather than causing a scene. I was thinking of buying from them and wanted to check to see if it was licensed from you. I'm especially disappointed that you never sent me a reply back telling me that they were legit and left me to be the scapegoat.

 

-Brian Clark

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 

Here's what Video 61 sent:

 

Brian,

 

why didn't you just ask me first? some of the carts i sell are loose carts, and i would let you know they are loose, because that is all i got from atari. i must have a 100 or more loose carts of each of these titles, pacman, ozzys orchard, abracadabra, as well as many others.

so if you only want boxed ones, please ask. its what most of my customers do. boulderdash is loose, but astrochase is boxed, etc.

i bought many many games out of atari, i also spent much time and money acquiring other games. visit scott adams of adventure international, and you will see a direct link on his site, to mine. he gave me permission to port his games to cart, and sell them. i used to pay him a license fee, but he kindly dropped that after about a decade. i do not need constant fighting over this. it will be hard to swallow the cost of this.

you could start by mentioning on atariage, that you goofed, and i have the right to sell my inventory, otherwise it will cast a pall over my business that i do not need.

 

lance

www.atarisales.com

 

 

 

 

 

On Feb 25, 2011, at 6:59 PM, Brian Clark wrote:

 

I'm sorry about firststar's response to my email to them. I asked them about your games becuase I was interested in ordering Boulderdash and I thought they would know for sure if any deals were made with them. Anyway, if you read my posts in the Atariage forum, you would know I asked becuase I was interested in some of the games in the store and I like to play it safe before I order things. I don't know what to do to make it up, but I feel Firststar is more at fault here.

 

-Brian Clark aka BrianC

 

Maybe "threats" was a bit harsh, but in this very topic you tell me I owe you over this and then you talk to me in a condesending tone telling me to make your business lookmgood. That comes across as shady to me.

Edited February 26, 2011 by BrianC