analmux Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 At my age you learn to value everyone's opinion who knows more than you.. I don't always follow them but I do listen and respect them. OK, but at the same time this doesn't justify when someone makes use of a 'negative' sounding in his words. See example: "2 + 2 = 4, NOT 5, you moron!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Yep, the cart image will be free, so you'll be able to burn your own for free if you've already got a 1MB (8Mbit) maxflash cart spare Money is a little short at the moment as there's a little Snicklin on the way, so I assume that your image will still work in an emulator? Is this so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheddy Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Yep, the cart image will be free, so you'll be able to burn your own for free if you've already got a 1MB (8Mbit) maxflash cart spare Money is a little short at the moment as there's a little Snicklin on the way, so I assume that your image will still work in an emulator? Is this so? yep, of course if you found a way to make things not work on anything but real hardware you'd be seeing a new version of Altirra pretty soon.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 yep, of course if you found a way to make things not work on anything but real hardware you'd be seeing a new version of Altirra pretty soon.. Super! That's appreciated from both you and Phaeron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariNerd Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Spiffin' work!! Playability is the main mark one should set ones sites on - the rest is fine glossing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) At my age you learn to value everyone's opinion who knows more than you.. I don't always follow them but I do listen and respect them. OK, but at the same time this doesn't justify when someone makes use of a 'negative' sounding in his words. See example: "2 + 2 = 4, NOT 5, you moron!" Don't worry, the ability to be ignorant while offering advice just degrades the writer of it, civility is key, if a person cannot harness that then they get chucked in the 'I listened but didn't agree' bin.. I have no time for over inflated ego's, they are nothing new on the internet and still as unwanted as day one when they started. There's a fine line between 'cock sure' and just being a 'cock'... Edited April 30, 2011 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelmischief Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 First, let me say that this thing is incredible. Amazing, really. When I look at things like this and the Wolfenstein port, I am just blown away. Still, I've wondered, "Why are the best new releases for the Atari XL/XE ports of things done better elsewhere?" There is no debate that as demonstrations of platform mastery and programing skill, Space Harrier on the Atari XL/XE is a colossal achievement. But as a port of the game, it is merely average. We all know that "back in the day", titles on the Atari were handcuffed by the need for publishers to make similarly featured versions on less (or at least differently) powerful platforms. It seems now we are carrying that tradition forward by porting titles from more and more powerful OTHER platforms. Why? If technical skill at this level could be coordinated with similarly excellent creative faculties, we could have amazing NEW games on the Atari XL/XE; games designed from the start to take full advantage of the Atari's strengths. Is it a matter of Atari fans being an exclusively technical lot? Is it that the collaboration required would be prohibitively difficult? Is it that I'm missing the point and the game itself isn't really the important? You may be tempted to ask me, "Why don't YOU do something about it?" It's fair. The answer is, simply, that I am not a game designer or developer. Besides that, I do not wield enough influence around here to get it done. Many of you, however, know each other a long time and have collaborated on other things. What I AM that CAN be helpful is a technical project coordination, an accomplished writer and 2D artist. In addition, I could also provide some funding and facilities (server space, VM's, etc.). What do you say? Anyone have a design? Want to start a Basecamp instance? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 ... yep, of course if you found a way to make things not work on anything but real hardware you'd be seeing a new version of Altirra pretty soon.. Sheddy, you should be a role-model to all coders on Atari computers! - except the part with how many years it takes to finish a project like that Really, what you achieved is awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin_Lunchbox Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Dazzling and astounding. It is hard to believe all this can be done by an Atari 8bit. Three-dimensional, modified first-person graphics, with convincing forward motion illusion. Huge objects flying all over the screen. The music was adaptive and very good. The voice samples add to the experience. What a great programming effort! Did Americans do this? Do we give the Poles some competition now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kool kitty89 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 (edited) The sound really has gone bad, compared to the early state. The "music" surpresses the digital sound. If you don't know there is some speech, you possibly wouldn't recognize it. Back in the early state there was the impressive speech, the action, and some "ok"ish music. The presentation was really nice... A funeral of what's got lost .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K254b2V0qAA Actually, this is a better example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmEFFp0lLzo and these: The right music and the right graphics while maintaining the proper volume levels for SFX and music. (the color scheme looks better than the "almost complete" videos too, but maybe that's an emulator issue) It's great that this project is reaching fruition, but it's rather odd that the quality seems to have degraded in some areas since the 2008/09 versions. (especially since the speech was one of the more impressive areas of the conversion) Maybe its more of an issue with the recoding of those newest clips. (the volume does seem a little excessive, so maybe that's screwing things up) Edited April 30, 2011 by kool kitty89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 when do we get a .xex of the full game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Sega might have something to say about selling unlicensed conversions of their copyrighted games so be careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Sega might have something to say about selling unlicensed conversions of their copyrighted games so be careful. Which is why they should release it in plain executable form, free, first... Then once every atari owner in the world already has a copy of it, SEGA can go "suck a nut" because there won't be any "profit potential" being gained... Then whoever wants a nice custom box, manual, cart, etc. etc. etc.. can pay for THOSE things, once the game executable is undeniably in the public domain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender II Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I'm looking forward to getting one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjmann Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) Here is a Better Quality Video. The Digital Sounds Should be Mixed a little better now. I had Altirras Audio Set to Non Linear Mixing By Accident. I also Used a Higher Bit Rate This Time. =) Space Harrier Video Link Edited May 1, 2011 by kjmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 The only real flaw is when the game ends there is no "Game Over" screen, or at least the high score screen could use a different background, or just a solid color background. The way it is now is reminiscent of the fixed background LCD games made by Tiger Electronics. In any case, i don't remember how the original Space Harrier did it, so I'll shut up now The Intro and actual gameplay look flawless EDIT: I guess it looks perfect according to the arcade version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 At my age you learn to value everyone's opinion who knows more than you.. I don't always follow them but I do listen and respect them. Ofcourse, other's opinions should be respected. But, as it seems, sometimes "Opinions" don't use to be "Opinions"..... as you don't get larger by putting a newspaper on you head: Here is a Better Quality Video. The Digital Sounds Should be Mixed a little better now. I had Altirras Audio Set to Non Linear Mixing By Accident. I also Used a Higher Bit Rate This Time. =) Space Harrier Video Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I had Altirras Audio Set to Non Linear Mixing By Accident. What's the use of this NLM feature then in this case? Does it mean the linear/non-linear volume ratio between GTIA & POKEY? Or is the Digi-sfx played by Pokey? IIRC, it was perry_m (who's working on ASAP emulator) who mentioned this NLM feature. The real pokey also has an NLM feature, having its effect on mutual volume ratios between the 4 pokey voices. I'd suggest doing a final testing round of this "DIGI vs MUSIC"-volume-ratio on the real thing! Not on any emulator! If I'm correct ALL of the vids linked to in this thread were recorded from emulator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Kjmann: If the game is won, does the hero climb onto the Luck Dragon from 'Neverending Story' and a big "The End" gets displayed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) To quote the Altirra manual re NLM "Emulates the effective mixing curve of the hardware, which causes the output of two voices to be lower than the sum of their volume levels. This is needed for some effects and also causes some compression of the output." It seems that's why its set as default and needed.. Phaeron can obviously explain this in serious depth when he see's this (if he has time) Edited May 1, 2011 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Kjmann: If the game is won, does the hero climb onto the Luck Dragon from 'Neverending Story' and a big "The End" gets displayed? Answer needs a serious spoiler as did this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheddy Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I had Altirras Audio Set to Non Linear Mixing By Accident. What's the use of this NLM feature then in this case? Does it mean the linear/non-linear volume ratio between GTIA & POKEY? Or is the Digi-sfx played by Pokey? IIRC, it was perry_m (who's working on ASAP emulator) who mentioned this NLM feature. The real pokey also has an NLM feature, having its effect on mutual volume ratios between the 4 pokey voices. I'd suggest doing a final testing round of this "DIGI vs MUSIC"-volume-ratio on the real thing! Not on any emulator! If I'm correct ALL of the vids linked to in this thread were recorded from emulator. I think you're right that Altirra Non-Linear Mixing feature makes it more accurate to real hardware, although it is not always easy to hear the difference. Most of the earlier videos didn't use stereo POKEY, which is why the Digi sounds louder than these new ones from Sal. I only have single POKEY machine but volume levels seem very similar to Altirra on that (less so on Atari800WinPlus). I will fix the stereo volume balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I'd suggest just use the "Global Volume" feature, turn the music down momentarily whenever the speech is played. For both stereo and mono, you can just do the digital stuff to the same channel on each Pokey and not need extra code. ie, "A" contains your sample so STA $D201 / STA $D211 in quick succession will set both voices on stereo, no need for different code on mono since it's just storing the same value into the same channel. I guess the second Pokey has all voices in use though, so maybe some sort of reassignment might be needed, e.g. only have symbols/drums on the same channel as the digitized voice uses. I guess you also have a mono track and the game selects the appropriate one? Or do the extra voice stores for Pokey 2 just get bypassed ? Looking good, although one thing that seems a little odd: You get the game over music that then leads back to the title screen, but there's no music on the first-run title screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I think you're right that Altirra Non-Linear Mixing feature makes it more accurate to real hardware, although it is not always easy to hear the difference. Most of the earlier videos didn't use stereo POKEY, which is why the Digi sounds louder than these new ones from Sal. I only have single POKEY machine but volume levels seem very similar to Altirra on that (less so on Atari800WinPlus). I will fix the stereo volume balance. That's why I still prefer your own music import to the game. The music did a fair work in the background and the digis/FX were clear . Now we have "drums" that sound higher than the Digis which leaves no room for any balance. If Stereo was really needed, isn't it possible to use both POKEYS with the same playback routine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akator Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Very impressive work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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