IDE Plus 2.0

[Rybags]

That's the Make Sparta File System utility.

 

I've only just been able to start using my IDE board the last few hours, it might take a while for things to slip into place.

 

I also tried the benchmarks with DMA turned narrow/off, it speeds up somewhat there too.

That bodes well for doing animations and such for VBXE - you can run with all Antic DMA off.

Although that said, a standard screen is 64K which would equate to 1 second's worth of reading.

[flashjazzcat]

I've swapped the mounting rails on this dual CF adapter so that the holes line up with those on the PCB:

 

 

 

Very sturdy. Just need a case now.

[Rybags]

I just started thinking case options today.

 

So many options. I've got 4 things that will practically always be in use that could potentially go in the one case:

 

IDE, SIOSD, SIO2PC and RGB to S-Video convertor for VBXE.

 

So I'm kinda thinking the XM301 might be out of the picture here.

 

I've got a spare +5, +12 Volt power supply off a disk enclosure that could power all that - the S-Video convertor needs the higher voltage, otherwise I could have just run everything off a USB wall-wart I bought a couple of months ago.

 

Case options - I could buy a project box, or on the other hand I've got this nice aluminium disk enclosure for 3.5 and 5.25 PC devices that no longer works, might be ideal to hold all this. Actually, it's got an inbuilt +5/+12 source too, so if it's still OK I could use that.

[Rybags]

I have an idea to take some of the pain out of trying to run ATR images - particularly games that don't use their own SIO routines (ie most of them).

 

You'd need at least 90K extended RAM, in other words a 192K system at least.

 

A command could be set up to copy an ATR to extended RAM (bye-bye RAMDisk), then create a modified RAM-based copy of the OS.

Do a fudged disk-boot coldstart (easy to do) of the modified OS, the SIO routine re-routed to translate read requests into an operation that copies the relevant data to where it's requested.

 

Since we're getting nice I/O speeds, reading an entire disk image into RAM is only going to take like 1.5-2.5 seconds anyway, so doubling the load time as might occur isn't really going to be an issue.

[drac030]

That's the Make Sparta File System utility.

 

It is only for the people who do not have access to SpartaDOS X

[Rybags]

OK.

 

I got one bit of a query/problem.

 

I found if I partitioned with a 128 byte/sec drive and gave it 1040 sectors, the size calc in the utility looks right and all, but you can only write to the first 520.

 

I did get it working by allocating using 2080 logical sector size in FDISK II Ver 2.6

[drac030]

That;s normal. FDISK2 calculates logical sizes as for IDEa, but in IDE+ sector mapping is different. That's why you have to allocate twice as much sectors as you really want, if creating a partition with 128 and 256 bytes per sector.

 

In fact, it is IDEa's design flaw (which however allowed to save some bytes of its ROM code back then).

[+bob1200xl]

What is it that you are trying to overcome? What pain is involved in running an .ATR? From where, the IDE? Can you give me an example or two? Do games commonly overwrite the OS/PBI or SIO routines?

 

(obviously a question from a non-gamer...)

 

Bob

 

 

 

I have an idea to take some of the pain out of trying to run ATR images - particularly games that don't use their own SIO routines (ie most of them).

 

You'd need at least 90K extended RAM, in other words a 192K system at least.

 

A command could be set up to copy an ATR to extended RAM (bye-bye RAMDisk), then create a modified RAM-based copy of the OS.

Do a fudged disk-boot coldstart (easy to do) of the modified OS, the SIO routine re-routed to translate read requests into an operation that copies the relevant data to where it's requested.

 

Since we're getting nice I/O speeds, reading an entire disk image into RAM is only going to take like 1.5-2.5 seconds anyway, so doubling the load time as might occur isn't really going to be an issue.

[Rybags]

You have to allocate an entire partition to hold an ATR, so obviously that won't cater for many games.

 

I also tried Spelunker (animated), for whatever reason it doesn't work - at first I thought maybe there's some protection/speed detection but I think not now, works fine in turbo SIO modes.

 

Maybe a better solution all-round would be if you could set the Boot partition/Drive 1 by user software.

Then a game menu could just copy an ATR to your reserved partition, set drive and reboot from it.

[+Larry]

Hi Gary,

 

If I understand correctly, you need either a partition designed to hold ATR's with select/boot software or many small partitions?

 

Out of curiosity, did you ever use a MyIDE with a "game partition?" If so, did it work OK for the games, and were you satisfied with that aspect of the MyIDE? (Just curious -- it's the only HD that I know of that was oriented to game partitions for ATR's.)

 

-Larry

 

You have to allocate an entire partition to hold an ATR, so obviously that won't cater for many games.

 

I also tried Spelunker (animated), for whatever reason it doesn't work - at first I thought maybe there's some protection/speed detection but I think not now, works fine in turbo SIO modes.

 

Maybe a better solution all-round would be if you could set the Boot partition/Drive 1 by user software.

Then a game menu could just copy an ATR to your reserved partition, set drive and reboot from it.

[Rybags]

Hi Larry. No, this is my first IDE device, so I'm relatively new to lots of the concepts in use here.

 

Another thought I had which in fact might be easier and I think is a good idea:

 

Just have a command that can be sent to the board "Set next boot partition". For the next boot request, the system will treat that as Drive 1.

 

Then instead of the kludge-o-matic technique of a RAM-Disk + modded RAM-based OS like I previously suggested, we could just do a menu that copies the ATR to the small work Partition and triggers a one-off boot from it.

 

Then when you're ready for the next game or whatever, just do a Coldstart and start all over with whatever your normal boot sequence is.

[+bob1200xl]

So, if you had many, many small (180K) partitions, .ATRs would be painless?

 

Where can I find this particular Spelunker?

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

 

 

You have to allocate an entire partition to hold an ATR, so obviously that won't cater for many games.

 

I also tried Spelunker (animated), for whatever reason it doesn't work - at first I thought maybe there's some protection/speed detection but I think not now, works fine in turbo SIO modes.

 

Maybe a better solution all-round would be if you could set the Boot partition/Drive 1 by user software.

Then a game menu could just copy an ATR to your reserved partition, set drive and reboot from it.

[Rybags]

Spelunker Animated Intro Version.atr

 

That's the one I used - gets partially through the loading then just hangs.

 

I don't think having many 180K partitions is an option. Given that there's probably 200+ games that only run from floppy or ATR, it'd potentially make for a cumbersome selection process.

 

IMO the best alternative might be to just have a command that can set the Boot Drive # for the next boot only.

Then it'd be a case of just having a command set up that copies the image you want to a small partition and boots from it.

[Rybags]

Another thing I meant to ask people: what games loader menu are people using for file-based games?

 

SpartaDOS native just refuses to load most things due to memory conflict, ie too low or in the cartridge region.

 

I know we've got MyPicoDOS available, but it's not SpartaDOS file system compatible, right ?

 

Is it a case of just putting MyDOS or <whatever> DOS on a dedicated partition then using that to populate a MyPicoDOS partition or are there other options ?

[+rdemming]

I know we've got MyPicoDOS available, but it's not SpartaDOS file system compatible, right ?

 

IDE+ installs a PBI device driver so it works with any file system / DOS. Just format one partition with MyDOS (read the manual because you need a switch to format the partition), install the MyPicoDos loader and make that partition the boot drive.

 

Robert

[Rybags]

My main concern is whether a similar minimalist boot menu exists that will read Sparta files.

 

If I had doco of the data structures of the file system, I might write a boot menu if none already exists.

[+bob1200xl]

I agree that selection may be more or less cumbersome, but that issue exists for both/any processes, no? If the .ATRs were already on the HDD and you could search/select, you would be good?

 

This would apply to any boot disks, wouldn't it?

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

Spelunker Animated Intro Version.atr

 

That's the one I used - gets partially through the loading then just hangs.

 

I don't think having many 180K partitions is an option. Given that there's probably 200+ games that only run from floppy or ATR, it'd potentially make for a cumbersome selection process.

 

IMO the best alternative might be to just have a command that can set the Boot Drive # for the next boot only.

Then it'd be a case of just having a command set up that copies the image you want to a small partition and boots from it.

[GoodByteXL]

My main concern is whether a similar minimalist boot menu exists that will read Sparta files.

 

If I had doco of the data structures of the file system, I might write a boot menu if none already exists.

There are several available:

 

- XDIR

- SD Load

- MicroSpartaDOS

 

SD Load seems to be the only one so far working in 512bps format.

 

And it is possible to write your own "game menu" using batch files, since most file versions (of games) run under SDX 4.4x.

 

My favorite from the old times is the "Logomenu.Sys" from ICD, which unfortunately does only "search" on SIO drives for available files. If someone could change this and make it available on 512bps format, full speed of the fabulous IDE V2 would be available.

 

As a PBI-IDE drive user for 15 years now I also used MyPicoDOS from Hias, which in fact is very flexible and comfortable. Unfortunately it sticks to the lame MyDOS-Format, which sucks a lot of the performance capacity of a PBI-IDE drive.

Edited July 1, 2011 by GoodByteXL

[Rybags]

I don't know what the plans are re how many partitions will be supported, but I've got doubts about it being some huge number.

 

I suppose we'll just have to see what happens. I suppose the easiest way at this stage would be to just setup a command that copies ATR files to a small partition, ditching the leader info. Then leave it up to the user to set the boot override in the BIOS menu.

[+bob1200xl]

I sector-copied the Spelunker file to a HD partition - booted just fine. The loader in the program must step on something from the HDD code.

 

Bob

 

 

 

Spelunker Animated Intro Version.atr

 

That's the one I used - gets partially through the loading then just hangs.

 

I don't think having many 180K partitions is an option. Given that there's probably 200+ games that only run from floppy or ATR, it'd potentially make for a cumbersome selection process.

 

IMO the best alternative might be to just have a command that can set the Boot Drive # for the next boot only.

Then it'd be a case of just having a command set up that copies the image you want to a small partition and boots from it.

[Rybags]

What IDE interface are you using, Bob ?

[+bob1200xl]

I use an interface that I made. Larry calls it the WIDE. It's just a plain-vanilla internal PBI attachment that uses $D700-FF for the partition table and $D800-$DFFF for the HDD code. CF card, internal ASM/ED cart in a 1200XL. Plugs into the CPU socket.

 

I've had it a long time - time for an update, which is why I'm asking all these questions.

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

What IDE interface are you using, Bob ?

[Rybags]

There is the possibility that I screwed something up along the line with the Spelunker thing.

 

Initially I'd allocated the partition too small, by the time I realised that it was getting real late, so maybe I overlooked something.

 

I also don't have the header for the XL hooked up, although so long as the internal SDX is disabled I don't think it'd matter.

 

I might give it another go.

[GoodByteXL]

If I had doco of the data structures of the file system, ...

Please have a look at the SDCS manual and the SDX manual. It's in there.

[Rybags]

Something going on... none of the Spelunkers I have will work.

 

The one with the title screen + crappy music - gets to that and as soon as you start, it accesses the HDD and locks up, stuck on whatever note it's on.

 

Could be it's trashing something. Sounds like a job for Altirra to work it out.