NeoGeo64 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Hey everyone, next question: Goldeneye 007 or AvP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Hey everyone, next question: Goldeneye 007 or AvP? Seriously? AVP was nice, but GoldenEye 007 set a pretty darn high standard. The varied environments, activities, and bodypart-specific damage alone set it apart from AVP and most other FPS games of the time. A better comparison is probably the respective Doom ports, though again, it's fair to say that the Jaguar version could have been further optimized and enhanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeo64 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I often wonder if the Jaguar, with experienced programmers, lots of time and effort and $ to throw at the project could handle 007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I often wonder if the Jaguar, with experienced programmers, lots of time and effort and $ to throw at the project could handle 007. Based on the 3D engines that we've seen to date, I don't think so. However, perhaps if enemies and objects remained 3D and the environments were turned into pseudo-3D a la Doom, then perhaps, though I suspect that a few concessions would have to be made in interactivity. It's tough to imagine a 2D-centric system like the Jaguar matching a 3D-centric system like the N64 in a 3D game like that. It's not really a fitting comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I often wonder if the Jaguar, with experienced programmers, lots of time and effort and $ to throw at the project could handle 007. 007 fps? Potentially... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 007 fps? Potentially... Goody! A guessing game. Where should I put the decimal point? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Goody! A guessing game. Where should I put the decimal point? I'm not CJ, I don't put leading zeroes just for the sake of it... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto1980 Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I think a game like PO'ed would be realistic on jaguar.. maybe better than 3do by using cry colormode a good coder that can split all the gamecode on the processors could do it maybe me.. in next life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) .007 fps? Potentially... Fixed. On the bright side, that's 25.2 fph, or frames per hour! Edited October 30, 2013 by stardust4ever 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) I often wonder if the Jaguar, with experienced programmers, lots of time and effort and $ to throw at the project could handle 007. Of course, no doubt about that. Look at the few really good N64 titles, most third party games were of sub standard eg like Superman. Programmers for the SNES sucked too, as Miyamoto mentioned here (The Japanese couldn't code 16-bit, they didn't have the advantage of owning STs or Amiga computers during the 80s): It takes quite some time to learn the hardware (and software), and the Jaguar ran out of time, plain and simple. Edited October 30, 2013 by high voltage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Plenny of good 3rd party games on the N64. There's no way the Jaguar could do Goldeneye 007 as it appeared on the N64. Maybe a re-skinned Doom, but it's not really the same thing is it? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Goody! A guessing game. Where should I put the decimal point? I'm thinking... Here -> .0000007. Oh, wait, how did all those other zeros get there? Of course, no doubt about that. Look at the few really good N64 titles, most third party games were of sub standard eg like Superman. No offense or anything, but that's a pretty ignorant statement. While the N64 had the same amount of average to mediocre games you would find on any popular system, Superman was the exception to the rule. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomaios Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Programmers for the SNES sucked too, as Miyamoto mentioned here (The Japanese couldn't code 16-bit, they didn't have the advantage of owning STs or Amiga computers during the 80s): It takes quite some time to learn the hardware (and software), and the Jaguar ran out of time, plain and simple. While true that it does take time to fully learn the hardware, I don't think Miyamoto was saying that SMW or programmers sucked, but rather that the SNES' full potential hadn't yet been unlocked. The author, not Miyamoto, said that they sucked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) Plenny of good 3rd party games on the N64. There's no way the Jaguar could do Goldeneye 007 as it appeared on the N64. Maybe a re-skinned Doom, but it's not really the same thing is it? The Jag could do Goldeneye IF it was just plain-shaded polygons, maybe with some light-sourcing and forego most or all texturing. More texturing in smaller areas and less in larger, etc. if used at all. The Jaguar is quite good with plain or shaded-only light-sourced polygons, it's when you start adding texturing that performance drops drastically. Even though hobby developers know how to program the Jag much better these days and have much better tools, and know how to get around hardware "bugs" it still comes down to good team of programmers with proper funding and time to get something similiar to Goldeneye on the Jag, and the chance of that happening is probably less than getting struck by lighting or winning a lottery, etc. Edited October 30, 2013 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeo64 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I would love to see a game like Pilotwings (super nes version or N64 version). I think the Super NES version would make a good port to the Atari Jaguar with the right amount of effort, since the Jaguar was a 2D powerhouse. Perhaps also throw in some tasteful 3D effects here and there, possible on the more powerful hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Given the same resources N64 would still win purely on memory size and memory speed. What makes the Jag shine so bright now in comparison is the homebrew scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lentzquest Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Hey everyone, next question: Goldeneye 007 or AvP? Neither of these have aged well IMO. I used to love them both but these days they both hold up terribly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeo64 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Imagine if Nintendo would have releases the SNES with the Jaguar's specs back in 1991. Even without the use of 3D, imagine how Nintendo would have taken advantage of it's superior 2D technical abilities. Imagine Secret of Mana, Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario RPG and all the other great 2D games release on and taking advantage of the Jag's hardware. Super Mario World programmed for and optimized for the Jag would be a sight to see. How about Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat on the Jag?? </dream> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Super Mario World programmed for and optimized for the Jag would be a sight to see. </dream> So somebody port it already, but give it entirely new levels. Also best to change the graphics and audio so that Nintendo is not offended by it like they were with Princess Rescue. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeo64 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Link and or video to the port, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Somebody needs to port this, but give it entirely new levels. Fixed. Link and or video to the port, please? It not exist to my knowledge; I was suggesting that someone should port it over. Sorry for the mixup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) The Jag could do Goldeneye IF it was just plain-shaded polygons, maybe with some light-sourcing and forego most or all texturing. More texturing in smaller areas and less in larger, etc. if used at all. The Jaguar is quite good with plain or shaded-only light-sourced polygons, it's when you start adding texturing that performance drops drastically. Even though hobby developers know how to program the Jag much better these days and have much better tools, and know how to get around hardware "bugs" it still comes down to good team of programmers with proper funding and time to get something similiar to Goldeneye on the Jag, and the chance of that happening is probably less than getting struck by lighting or winning a lottery, etc. Can the Jaguar handle as many polygons as the N64 on screen at the same time though, even with no textures? Look carefully at Goldeneye, and you'll see a LOT going on. For instance, even in the very first level we see wall switches and padlocks that are not just polygonal (ie, not just a texture) but are also destroyable. There's so much happening that Rare decided to make a lot of the environment black and white to whittle down the processing! I like both consoles, but the Jaguar is almost a different generation, performance-wise. What I say is, unless you can have EVERYTHING that appears in the original (with concession to textures) on a Jaguar version, it's not really Goldeneye. It's a game that really works with all the things that are in it. Nothing feels superfluous... Edited October 31, 2013 by danny_galaga 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youki Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'd said the N64 is better! .... but i prefer 100 times my Jaguar!. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Can the Jaguar handle as many polygons as the N64 on screen at the same time though, even with no textures? Look carefully at Goldeneye, and you'll see a LOT going on. For instance, even in the very first level we see wall switches and padlocks that are not just polygonal (ie, not just a texture) but are also destroyable. There's so much happening that Rare decided to make a lot of the environment black and white to whittle down the processing! I like both consoles, but the Jaguar is almost a different generation, performance-wise. What I say is, unless you can have EVERYTHING that appears in the original (with concession to textures) on a Jaguar version, it's not really Goldeneye. It's a game that really works with all the things that are in it. Nothing feels superfluous... Goldeneye in it's entirety is superfluous in my opinion. Oh, no! The Jag version is missing a couple polygons! It's not really Goldeneye! ...Get a grip. Edited October 31, 2013 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Goldeneye in it's entirety is superfluous in my opinion. Oh, no! The Jag version is missing a couple polygons! It's not really Goldeneye! ...Get a grip. There's no shame in the Jaguar not being able to reproduce a game or games on a system that came out just over 2 and a half years later. So no, it wouldn't be GoldenEye if significant omissions had to be made, which they would. The Jaguar could do well with a Doom- or Duke Nukem 3D-class FPS, but to ask it to reproduce a polygon heavy FPS is not realistic. A fairer comparison as always is the Jaguar versus 3DO. Even there the Jaguar tends to come up a bit short, if only because we're talking over 200 fewer games released for the Jaguar (and the 3DO had over 60 fewer releases than the N64), so there was less of a chance to push the system's capabilities regularly. That disparity is not surprising since the Jaguar also sold significantly fewer consoles than either the 3DO or N64. Again, nothing disparaging there, just the reality. Will we ever see the Jaguar pushed to its potential? Maybe, but for now we can only go by what's been shown to us to date, and that means nothing like GoldenEye. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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