Atari Flashback 4 Review

[Bill Loguidice]

Nice review. Just a couple questions. Does the console look the exact same as the FB3 or is there a different look for the infrared? and do you foresee a different version in the near future with an SD slot? Thanks for doing these.

 

It has a slightly different look, yes. Nothing major, though. It's a tough call about an SD version. Now that they have the emulation under control, it's certainly possible, but it all comes down to Atari. I did a similar review for AtGames' Sega products (http://www.armchairarcade.com/neo/node/4904), and Sega DOES allow use of an SD slot in their handheld, so there's certainly precedent there. With that said, I have a feeling Atari WON'T allow it in the future. That's just a guess, though...

[Bill Loguidice]

Thanks Bill, just watched the review. Great job.

 

I will admit though that I am on the fence. I've always liked the Flashback, or perhaps its more accurate to say that I like the "idea" of the flashback - great for the average person looking to relive their youth and play some simple, easy to play games. As a long time collector and Atari fan, I don't see much for me personally, as somone who has access to the real thing, and as others have mentioned, with a harmony cart and a real 2600, its the best option.

 

I'm not bashing the system as it looks like a quality product but for $50 (maybe higher in Canada?) I don't know that I could justify it. I may be tempted to buy one, were I to come across one here but I'm not completely sold on it yet.

 

This is true. If you already have a Flashback (save for the awful Flashback 1), then there's probably not enough reason here to get this one. If you don't have one, the case becomes a bit more compelling, though that too depends upon the state of your real Atari 2600 collection. The Flashbacks are nice-to-haves, but NOT necessities by any means. They're ALL targeted to the mainstream consumer who really doesn't want the original stuff...

[onmode-ky]

Of course I would find out about Bill's overview of AtGames' upcoming Sega emulator systems only the day after I published the latest update of my comprehensive plug-n-play games list to my website (and to the related thread here at AtariAge). That's just the way it goes.

 

Bill, are the games lists for AtGames' FB4 and Sega systems finalized for the end product to be sold in stores, or could those still get changed? I'll need to add them to my site's Retro Contents page (that lists what retro games appear in plug-n-play systems). Then again, AtGames made so many Sega models in the past and tinkered with the games lists so often between (within?) models that I gave up trying to track what games were in which of their systems a long time ago.

 

Speaking of the games lists, I find it odd that 2 of the 3 Capcom games in the portable are Street Fighter II variants. It's odd because, of the two AtGames systems on offer, they're on the one that does not support head-to-head play. Or does it? I can't recall you mentioning that.

 

Also, your Sega review demonstrated a few games, and I'm pretty sure the emulator's sound problems are still there. I'm not intimately familiar with either Comix Zone or Street Fighter II, but the music in your footage of those two games sounded quite wrong. Instruments were out of tune with each other, and melodies sounded nonsensical, almost like just random strings of notes. Looking up footage of those two games on YouTube, I found them not sounding like that. I don't think these are issues stemming from your video capture setup; do the comparison yourself, and I think you'll see (hear) what I'm talking about.

 

onmode-ky

 

Edit: I forgot to mention this: in addition to the FB4, Amazon.com also has AtGames' Sega emulator systems, the Atari paddles pair set, and a set of 5 Atari posters up for preorder (from Amazon.com, not a Marketplace seller). The latter 2 products are $24.99, while the plug-n-play systems are all $59.99.

Edited September 9, 2012 by onmode-ky

[Bill Loguidice]

The games lists are finalized for all three systems. I have and show the final products. One retailer will have an extra game on the Atari Flashback 4, but I unfortunately am not allowed to reveal the details.

 

Watch part two of the Sega review (http://www.armchairarcade.com/neo/node/4904), which was posted shortly after part two of the Atari review, for live sound. Again, not perfect in a 1:1 sense, but it certainly sounds pretty close and much better than what that wonky capture setup demonstrated.

 

You're correct, it is odd that Capcom would only license their games for the handheld and not the console, and a few two player games at that. The handheld is strictly single player. Like all companies, AtGames is at the whim of the lincesor, which is why you have that odd situation with Space Invaders on the Flashback 4.

[onmode-ky]

I watched Part 2 of your AtGames Sega preview, and the emulator definitely is still yielding screwy sound. The quality of the sound seems okay, but pitches are off, and not consistently even within the same instrument/channel. A specific example: in Streets of Rage 2, YouTube footage shows that the chord in the intro when the pair of large hands appears over the city is supposed to be a minor chord. In your footage, it ends up sounding like an augmented chord instead. Also bizarre, different instruments seem to suffer the effects differently, while also being amplified to different degrees (Comix Zone showing this well), such that what is supposed to be a melody comes out as cacophony.

 

If you're the type of player who doesn't pay any attention to the music when playing, then this may be okay, but if I were in the market for this product, it would be a dealbreaker. I can't imagine sitting through a game where the entire soundtrack sounds like members of an orchestra or band playing different music simultaneously, and I'm not a purist when it comes to this type of product. The sound being a little different from the original, I can deal with that (I probably wouldn't even notice, for the Genesis library); the sound being discordant all the time, not so much.

 

One retailer will have an extra game on the Atari Flashback 4, but I unfortunately am not allowed to reveal the details.

 

I would be amused if that game turned out to be the original 2600 Space Invaders.

 

Like all companies, AtGames is at the whim of the lincesor, which is why you have that odd situation with Space Invaders on the Flashback 4.

 

Heh, "whim of the licensor" is presumably the same reason why, in 2004, Majesco released a Frogger-only plug-n-play system alongside a 6-in-1 Konami plug-n-play system--which included Frogger--for the same exact price. It otherwise makes no sense, unless you believe there are two markets being served: 1. Frogger superfan-type collectors out there who would ignore the fact that the system only has one game for the same cost; 2. sensible consumers looking for more games for their buck. It was a very strange product lineup indeed.

 

onmode-ky

[PFL]

I wish they would make a 'Flashback' in the style of Hyperkin's SupaBoy. I mean, we have already had 4 Flashbacks, th 10 in 1 plus the paddle games unit. Is it so much hassle for Atari to create a Flashback with a built in screen an TV out?

[garyd97]

Any idea why Casino would be left off? It seems like a good way to add another game for paddle use.

[Bill Loguidice]

I wish they would make a 'Flashback' in the style of Hyperkin's SupaBoy. I mean, we have already had 4 Flashbacks, th 10 in 1 plus the paddle games unit. Is it so much hassle for Atari to create a Flashback with a built in screen an TV out?

 

Considering how nice (and inexpensive - $40 list) the latest portable Sega Genesis/Mega Drive-based handheld from AtGames is, I think it's a no-brainer. It's only speculation, but perhaps there is some mentality high up at Atari that such a device requires a joystick or something else to appeal to the masses. Who knows, but certainly the model is already there!

[Bill Loguidice]

Any idea why Casino would be left off? It seems like a good way to add another game for paddle use.

 

No idea and I don't think there's much point in asking, because it will probably necessarily be a stock answer. It's not like quality was necessarily the reason either, as there are some pretty low tech/low quality early games on there already. I'm not sure the goal was necessarily catering to the paddle crowd, either, though, as I don't think they expect to sell many extra paddles and even wired joysticks, hence only selling them at the AtGames Website and Amazon (probably most, if not all, mass merchants weren't interested in stocking them).

Edited September 10, 2012 by Bill_Loguidice

[TrekkiELO]

Part 2 of my video review for the Atari Flashback 4 is now up: http://www.armchaira...m/neo/node/4902

 

Bill,

 

Was there any particular reason why you said 80 games in your review, are there more secret or hidden games not already mentioned?

 

Rick

Edited September 11, 2012 by TrekkiELO

[Bill Loguidice]

Bill,

 

Was there any particular reason why you said 80 games in your review, are there more secret or hidden games not already mentioned?

 

Rick

 

Nope, just another flub. I did the Sega review right after and had that on the brain. The Sega console and handheld each have 80 games.

[LYNXGUY]

I don't know if this has been asked but can we use actual atari joysticks with Flashback 3 or 4 ???

[Bill Loguidice]

I don't know if this has been asked but can we use actual atari joysticks with Flashback 3 or 4 ???

 

Yes, both original joysticks and paddles will work with the Flashback 3 or 4. The upcoming release of the wired joystick and paddles will in turn work on original consoles.

 

Someone on my Website reported that certain trackballs don't directly work on the Flashback 3 since they expect power from a certain output pin that the console doesn't provide. Obviously, that's a very specialized situation, and that would be true of even classic systems that don't output power from that pin.

[Atariboy]

I didn't check your latest video to confirm it when I thought about this last night, but it seems like I recall when I watched it several days ago that you said the seperate joysticks would be sold for $20?

 

Is that a pair of them I hope? Anyone can walk into a Wal-Mart today and get a Flashback 3 with two of the same sticks for $29.99. If they're planning on selling them individually for $20 a stick, I can't imagine they're going to get many takers.

[PFL]

Are the sticks with the FB 3 the same as the FB 2 ones? I just presumed they were different. If so, I might just pick one up...

[Bill Loguidice]

The Flashback 3 joysticks are different than the Flashback 2 joysticks, yes. The Flashback 3 joysticks and both the wired and wireless for the Flashback 4, are more or less the same, with a looser stick than your classic-style Atari joystick. Some don't like that, but I find it comfortable and responsive. The button action is also nice.

 

Yes, the retail price for the new wired joysticks - 1 joystick - is $19.97, which is the same price as the pair of paddles (two paddles to the one connector). They will likely only be available from Amazon or the AtGames Website. So, yes, even if you don't want a Flashback 3, if you can find it for $30, it's a better value getting that just for the two wired joysticks than buying them separately now. The Flashback 4 only comes with two wireless infrared joysticks, with the player one joystick mimicking the console's control panel buttons.

[AtariLeaf]

Hey Bill, on another note I was just watching this video on youtube with Boisy Pitre and he name dropped that you and he are working on a book about the Tandy Coco? I would love something like that. Can you speak a little more on it?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iniXuUNOQ9A&feature=g-u-u

[Bill Loguidice]

Hey Bill, on another note I was just watching this video on youtube with Boisy Pitre and he name dropped that you and he are working on a book about the Tandy Coco? I would love something like that. Can you speak a little more on it?

 

There's not much to say yet, really. We're working on a comprehensive Color Computer history book. We probably won't finish working on it until the end of the year. Publisher, etc., are all up in the air at the moment, since it's very early in the process. I'm trying to finish up the edits on the PlayStation Vita book at the moment, but I'll get back into the CoCo book next week.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Bill_Loguidice

[AtariLeaf]

Awesome Bill thanks, and if it wouldn't be too much trouble, could you post updates here? Or perhaps on the Coco mailing list.

[Bill Loguidice]

Awesome Bill thanks, and if it wouldn't be too much trouble, could you post updates here? Or perhaps on the Coco mailing list.

 

Yeah, I'll post updates on Armchair Arcade and everywhere else, including the CoCo list. I'll post more once there's something to talk about...

[BassGuitari]

Just did a testing with a room full of retro gamers at a Labor Day party yesterday. I'll be writing up a full review based on their responses (I took myself out of the review process because of my background with the Flasbhack 2 and 2+ and just let them state their unbiased and uncoached opinions.) The consensus was the controllers are horrible. Very cheap feeling with most being afraid it would shatter if dropped. And the control and response felt nothing like the originals (they were unanimous in dislike for the looser shaft and "clicky" feeling of the sticks.)

 

As for the console, just about everyone pointed out emulation problems in the games they played from missing elements to wrong colors to the sound being too high pitched to speed being off. They were also universally disapointed in the version of Space Invaders not being the original and obviously not even just a "new" 2600 based one.

 

Just to chime in here, I was one of the people at the aforementioned Labor Day party that had an opportunity to put the Flashback 4 through its paces. My short take on it is, for the the money it costs, you could get a real 2600 and most of the games included in the FB4. I highly recommend you go that route instead.

 

My first impression was of the controller, which, as Marty indicated, was awful:

 

-The plastic felt flimsy and brittle, and there was a spot on the joystick that I believe was slopped paint from when they did the ring around the stick.

 

-The stick itself retained the FB2's and FB3's so-close-and-yet-so-far octagonal shaft instead of the CX40's hexagonal design, and the action had a el cheapo feel. The action wasn't that terrible in and of itself, but it is very different from a real Atari joystick, and not very sturdy-feeling; I'm guessing it has rubber pads on the board, like those found in a Genesis or NES controller.

 

-The paint on the ring appeared thin, inconsistent, and not well-finished.

 

-The wireless RF was one of the worst things about the controllers, or maybe the console, or both (the worst part about the whole package was the input lag, which I'll get to in a moment). The joysticks must be pointed DIRECTLY at the console in order for their input to register; even slight movements from the console's "line of sight" will interrupt the joystick's signal. In a heated high score effort, this could prove maddening, but on the plus side, you won't be playing this piece of junk long enough for any game to qualify as a "high score effort."

 

The console itself looks identical to the FB3. That is, a bastardized version of the FB2 with rounded corners on the top of the button panel and controller ports moved to the front of the thing. I don't like the look myself, but okay, fine. I didn't handle the console itself so I can't comment in respect to its build quality. But, I don't imagine it being any better than the dreadful controllers. On to the software:

 

-The menu screens were shockingly low-res. They look to be of Sega Genesis quality. Even the Atari logo was barely legible.

 

-Some of the colors on the games I tested (Combat, Star Ship, Missile Command, Space Invaders) were conspicuously incorrect. The first few Tank games in Combat were bonafide eyesores.

 

-Audio is thin and tinny, par for the course with emulated games.

 

-At least one game, Star Ship, was very poorly ported. The 3-point Robots do not appear in at least the first game variation, affecting the entire gameplay dynamic. Colors are wrong, here, too; for example, the background stars are now blue and orange instead of white. Sounds, again, are wrong. My guess is that with a game so obscure, they were banking that nobody would know the difference or care.

 

-There is noticeable lag with the controller input. All of the system's other faults could be forgiven (I guess), but this is simply unacceptable. I will say, though, that I get not get a chance to try out a wired controller with the FB4. The lag could be an issue with the wireless RF system. Whether it exists with wired controller input, I cannot say.

 

-Space Invaders, as has been noted, is nothing resembling the 2600 version. Rather, it is an interpretation of the arcade version. It's actually a rather nice game, apart from the ever-present lag, but it isn't the 2600 version.

 

-We noticed some game speed issues with Missile Command (it was really, really slow), which turned out merely to be the difficulty switch set in the wrong position. Our bad. At the normal difficulty (B), it seemed normal. Marty thought it was too fast, but it seemed correct to me. The truth must be in the middle.

 

Overall, I'd advise buyers to not bother with the Flashback 4. The entire package is a flimsy and sloppily-made affair. I don't want to speak for Marty and the other guys who tested it, but their reactions and feedback led me to believe that they agree with me. If, somehow, you don't have a real 2600 by now (or a 7800, or some other way of running 2600 cartridges), get one of those instead. Or at least a Flashback 2. Even the Stella emulator is a step up.

Edited September 13, 2012 by BassGuitari

[Greg2600]

Video game critic seemed to like it....

 

http://videogamecritic.net/vgc_fb4.htm

 

Also liked the Genesis console.

 

http://videogamecritic.net/vgc_genclassic.htm

[Bill Loguidice]

Yeah, I saw the Video Game Critic's reactions yesterday too. More or less in line with my own thoughts and impressions. I'm frankly a bit surprised at Don and Marty's impressions (and their group of friends) being as severe as they were, but to each their own. Again, the closer to perfection you want these things, the more you'll be disappointed. My opinion, any issues are minor enough in all three systems to be a non-issue for the vast majority of gamers. If you want the real thing, only the real thing will suffice, or, if you want tweakable accuracy, do emulation on a good computer (there are some awesome official console and PC options too), preferably with a USB-to-original controller adapter. There is a certain group that will never be satisfied, though, and these modern day products are not for them. Honestly, I don't think that's who they're trying to target with these either, because that's such a small percentage of their buying population that it's more cost effective just to do the best you can, rather than perfection. Perfection would cut into profit margins and not pay off in notably more sales. Right or wrong, every business is in it to make money in the end.

[BassGuitari]

I'm frankly a bit surprised at Don and Marty's impressions (and their group of friends) being as severe as they were, but to each their own.

 

My name isn't Don.

 

I'm a bit surprised that other hardcore classic gamers view this product so favorably.

 

Again, the closer to perfection you want these things, the more you'll be disappointed.

 

True enough, but that doesn't excuse a half-assed effort. It doesn't need to be perfect. I'm not naive enough to think "perfect" -whatever that means- is even possible. Even the Flashback 2 wasn't perfect. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that it isn't sloppy. A great many things about the FB4 say "sloppy" to me.

 

My opinion, any issues are minor enough in all three systems to be a non-issue for the vast majority of gamers. If you want the real thing, only the real thing will suffice, or, if you want tweakable accuracy, do emulation on a good computer (there are some awesome official console and PC options too), preferably with a USB-to-original controller adapter.

 

Agreed on all points, except for the issue of controller lag. That's a deal-breaker.

 

There is a certain group that will never be satisfied, though, and these modern day products are not for them.

 

Agreed, at least on the last part. I was highly satisfied with the Flashback 2. It was the perfect mix of what AtGames is trying to do with the FB4, with a nod to we "true believers" in that it used real 2600 hardware and thus the games weren't fake emulated things. It was what the FB3 and FB4 try to be, only done right.

 

Honestly, I don't think that's who they're trying to target with these either, because that's such a small percentage of their buying population that it's more cost effective just to do the best you can, rather than perfection.

 

For AtGames' sake, I hope so.

 

Perfection would cut into profit margins and not pay off in notably more sales.

 

Again, it doesn't need to be perfect, but should be reasonably well done. The Jakks Pacific Atari Paddle unit, for instance, was obviously not quite the same as the real thing, but it proved to be a very enjoyable unit. Ditto for the FB2, which came a lot closer since it was real 2600 hardware.

 

I don't know how much money Atari actually made on the FB2 venture, but I understand the unit sold well. And if I recall correctly, the FB2 retailed at or below the FB4's price point. And it was a product superior to the FB4 in every way (except maybe game selection). But, you could be right about the margins not being high enough on it. I don't have that information.

 

What information I do have, is that personally I'd rather pay more and get a quality product than settle for a cheap, skimped-down alternative, as long as the numbers make sense. That isn't limited to video games.

 

The FB4 is better than nothing, I guess, but I'm still of the opinion that if you want to play 2600 games, there are better ways to do it, even apart from the real thing.

Edited September 15, 2012 by BassGuitari

[+stephena]

Overall, I'd advise buyers to not bother with the Flashback 4. The entire package is a flimsy and sloppily-made affair. I don't want to speak for Marty and the other guys who tested it, but their reactions and feedback led me to believe that they agree with me. If, somehow, you don't have a real 2600 by now (or a 7800, or some other way of running 2600 cartridges), get one of those instead. Or at least a Flashback 2. Even the Stella emulator is a step up.

 

Talk about damning with faint praise