ABBUC Software Contest 2012 - Status

[Heaven/TQA]

Actually, although i believe the term was coined by Zzap! 64 magazine (as a contraction of "shoot 'em up"), "shmup" it has been in general use since the 1980s amongst gamers to refer to 2D shooters generally; the majority of use now is nothing to do with the C64 and personally i dislike the term and detest the derogatory "Euroshmup" even more.

 

That said, i quite like the idea of "shmuppet" as a word for someone who plays shoot 'em ups so what do i know... =-)

 

haha... shmuppet rules... then I am a shmuppet...

[Creature XL]

(snip)

 

Err well,

maybe you don`t know, I am not a programmer and I have never really programmed anything (just ripped some routines or basic lines here and there). So the assembler source you are giving me is the same as chinese to me, I do not understand anything... surely others do, I don`t. And err, it was not my job to inspect any programs source-code, I just had to collect all programs for the ASC 2012 and put them on as few disks as possible (thats why I packed some of them) and also make sure or better test, that they load and run fine...

 

If you look at the Abbuc disk or disk-image, you will see, that HAR`em has been packed by me (with Flashpacker 2.1 and Code3-Cruncher if I remember correctly), so your Basic-off routine is "inside" the packed data. However, the packed data itself requires Basic-off and thats why I had to add another Basic-off routine - its from Bill Wilkinson (he partially worked on Atari Basic and wrote the book Inside Atari Basic) and it was published in Compute! magazine in the early 80s and has an enormous length of 45 or 55 bytes...

 

And while I added these "many" bytes to your program, I packed it and therefore made it some kilobytes shorter on the disk... -Andreas Koch.

 

Yeah, I know that you are no programmer and I know that you have packed the disks

Guess I got your post wrong then. I was of the opinion that you meant you had to add a BASIC-off to make it work or so. For that reason I posted the first few lines of the source code where can been seen that I disable BASIC in PORTB.

 

And yeah, many bytes to pack. Had no time to pack it myself. I guess you haven't saved many bytes with MJO last year, right?

BTW, when I do the packing myself i use the "inflate 6502". Not sure if it is the best packer, but it fits nicely in my toolchain, as I can simply use gzip to pack it

 

 

@Mathy:

Ohh took me some moments to understand your post. Then i realised I had a mistake in my post

I meant to say "6 weeks a 40h"

FYI, there is not much time (efficient) coding on parties. When I go to a party I want to talk to people. At Outline and Error Line I guess I was 6h effectively on the computer.

That's BTW the reason I am contemplating going to the Abbuc meeting. Time is better used sitting here and hitting the keys. On the other side it would be a good possibility to let others beta test it there. BUT, coming slightly back to topic, might not be a wise idea, as it COULD manipulate the votes for the entry-version.

[Yautja]

Intriguing: What does "HAR`em" mean?

[Mathy]

Hello CreatureXL

 

The Nutella thing was an insider joke, but you might get an idea what I am talking about if you read the article about the HATZ in ABBUC Magazine number 110. And read the article by Erhard too. He mentions how much he gets done on such meetings. At such meetings, most nights are shorter and most days are longer then usual. I can only recommend them.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

[Creature XL]

Intriguing: What does "HAR`em" mean?

 

Was the best name we could come up with.

The game was developed by a subset of members of HAR (Hannover ABBUC Regionalgruppe) and it is a shoot'em up. Easy as that

 

Further, there are rumours that a high percentage of member sof said sub-group like the idea of having many women

 

 

@Mathy:

I like to drink and talk to other people on such parties. As said, its not that I never were on a demoscene event.

Back at the "Error in Line 3" the main coder of our group ".tSCc." spend all three days finishing the dem "Beams" for the Falcon030.

He talked to no one. That was really sad, as he said himself.

 

Another problem would be that I need Linux AND Windows 7 to develop for the A8. Linux for all the coding and quick testing (atari800) and Altirra for the debugging.

My Desktop-PC, running Linux, can easily handle a big Win7 VM. The old laptop I use for coding when not at home, just runs Linux. And dual booting slows down debugging a lot.

Did this while coding MJO as I was mainly woring in a different city last year.

 

Such meetings are nice to code some fun stuff. For example experimenting with the 16col-Mode.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Creature XL

[Heaven/TQA]

Creature... what do you have in common with TSCC? I know the guys and they were based near Karlsruhe so I met them back in 1997 Just curious... and Stefan (msx) I knew, too.

[MaPa]

Another problem would be that I need Linux AND Windows 7 to develop for the A8. Linux for all the coding and quick testing (atari800) and Altirra for the debugging.

What about coding under Win7?

[Creature XL]

Creature... what do you have in common with TSCC? I know the guys and they were based near Karlsruhe so I met them back in 1997 Just curious... and Stefan (msx) I knew, too.

I am a member since 1999 or so.

I did 10 month of my military service in Strasbourg. And Germersheim (TSCC-Base) was near by. Mad Butcher (T.Butschke) introduced me.

 

 

@MaPa:

 

My toolchain (gVIM, make, sed, grep, gzip, git ...) is Unix-based and I do not want to fiddle with cygwin or other stuff.

And as my desktop runs Linux anyway I do not see the point in coding on Win7.

[HiassofT]

My toolchain (gVIM, make, sed, grep, gzip, git ...) is Unix-based and I do not want to fiddle with cygwin or other stuff.

And as my desktop runs Linux anyway I do not see the point in coding on Win7.

Last time I checked Altirra worked pretty well with Wine, so no need for a full-blown Windows VM :-). If you only see a black screen try switching the video output method (/opengl, /gdi or /ddraw IIRC).

 

so long,

 

Hias

[Creature XL]

Last time I checked Altirra worked pretty well with Wine, so no need for a full-blown Windows VM :-). If you only see a black screen try switching the video output method (/opengl, /gdi or /ddraw IIRC).

 

so long,

 

Hias

 

Honestly, I never dared trying it

Will do this evening.

[Heaven/TQA]

I used Wine, too for some Altirra testing.

[Heaven/TQA]

on OSX.

[Creature XL]

Honestly, I never dared trying it

Will do this evening.

 

Not able to EDIT as it seems.

Just wanted to add, that Altirra works using Wine for me as well.

Next debugging session will show if it is "really" working

[+therealbountybob]

...It's got an ending with a score bonus. Increasing the difficulty is pretty much impossible because the sprite engine is either close to or totally maxed out a lot of the time so there's no free object slots for another nasty.

Just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying playing Callisto, just made stage 4 for the 1st time

Fantastic control, just the right amount of fire button mashing. I'm not really wanting to beat it just yet but I guess potentially there is a maximum possible score to aim for. I'm so glad this isn't another 'looks great' but 'incredibly poor gameplay' H-scroller (Mirax Force etc etc) If there's no RAM left hope you can release a part II with some more levels one day

Might this be the best shooter in abbuc history

31,860 (3)

32,885

33,630

36,315

36,560

36,930

59,030 (4)

[+skr]

 

 

Strange.

So, everytime a member receives the ABBUC magazin he can make an atr of the attached disk (or simply go to ABBUC reserved download area for members and download it) and publish it?

 

I´ve just found the time to read here again and I must say I am a little bit surprised.

 

First of all: Not "an ABBUC member" released the disks, it was the Head of software ressort (me) who released the disk image. As head of Software Ressort I am arrogant enough to say that I think it was ok. In my reading the contest ends after all contributions arrived. That point is clearly defined by the Deadline. So I don´t feel wrong here.

 

But I think, made some mistakes:

 

- I should have had checked up with the president, to make sure he agrees with me. I was so sure not to make a mistake that I didn´t ask him.

- Obviously the rules are not clear enough. As cas mentioned, that will be discussed.

- I released the image after the disks arrived at German ABBUC members. That wasn´t clever, I should have wait until international members got their disks too.

 

On the other hand, there was no talking with me before posting here. I don´t blame anyone too. I just say:

There were SEVERAL requests by email to release the games as soon as possible. There was exactly ONE email that I know of where an ABBUC member told me, that he didn´t like it that the games of the software contest were released. If there are more, then I have to wonder why they were not sent to me.

 

But that one email seems to be enough to start postings in several forums talking about a problem which actually is not a problem at all. What the heck? But ok, I am old enough, I can take it. See: I assisted the president with copying the real disks. I only made 275 disks, that are 550 copies on my 1050 with SuperSpeedy. Wolfgang Burger did all the rest. So the first persons to have a problem with disk images released should be Wolfgang and me, because we invest a lot of time in copying. I know that there are not many people left using the real hardware only. But testing that the disks run fine on unmodified hardware alone took us one full day with several people. Even if I knew that there is only one single person left using the real hardware only, I would do it that way. It´s not about being economical or so. Bullshit. This is why I call myself to be RETRO. Anyway.

 

As mentioned above, there will be a discussion. Actually, there is a discussion every year. This is what the ABBUC is about. It´s living. And everybody can influence the actions of the club.

 

So I ask you guys here on Atari Age, what do you should be changed at the software contest. If you have some input, please don´t forget to tell me if you are an ABBUC member or not.

Edited October 22, 2012 by skr

[Heaven/TQA]

I am ABBUC member and I am here since more than 10 years (JESUS... and that's internet where sites disappear or going public ) and for me the software contest was kind of promotion and some competition to gain some fame. and as a coder it would never been the price. and as ABBUC member it is fine for me to spend some of my money to give it away as pricing for the competition. why not? it does not matter to have a kind of exclusivity time frame (2 weeks? come on...) but as a coder who takes part... it would be more kind of pain to have the contribution locked up in the contest for ABBUC members only AFTER the deadline... for me the hard pain is that you can not promote the game/software prior competition ends.

[+therealbountybob]

my thoughts:

 

Games should be kept exclusive for abuuc subscribers for the period up to the vote.

The period between the end of the contest and the vote should be (1) long enough to play all of the games (try utilities) to make a realistic rating and (2) not too long so authors games are tied up. Perhaps 3-4 weeks

 

Abbuc should promote this contest as a great reason to subscribe. If you just give them away immediately you are missing a trick.

Non German speaking Atari users should consider subscribing as the annual 30+Euros price is very reasonable for these games alone. More importantly this goes towards the prize money which supports and encourages more and perhaps better games.

 

It would be nice to hear from programmers (past and present years) what incentive the 500? Euros made to their entries in terms of starting or completing a project, extra efforts features etc ... apart from the fame and honor of winning the contest of course

 

From an abbuc point of view would having more subscribers mean increased prize money? If so this would encourage more entries and we all benefit.

 

Long Live Atari

[TMR]

It would be nice to hear from programmers (past and present years) what incentive the 500? Euros made to the their entries in terms of starting or completing a project, extra efforts features etc ... apart from the fame and honor of winning the contest of course

 

i can answer that one from my perspective at least; the prize money would be nice an' everything, but i wanted to take part because it's something of an institution (i've told myself for a few years that i'd contribute and run out of free time so was fairly determined not to let it pass this year) and because i work better with a deadline and wanted Callisto done, out there and being played by people.

[Creature XL]

Basically what TMR said.

The money is nice to have, but not the main incentive for me, although it is maybe the tiny bit extra motivation which helps you pulling it through.

Entering the contest is a good way to "promote" a game/program. Every other release (maybe except "Space Harrier") get not much recognition.

 

I totally understand why the deadline is how it is (close to the JHV and so on). The drawback is that its so close to the summer. Beleive it or not, even coders like beeing outside when the sun is shining.

And this year, I spent a quarter of my summer holliday in the hotel room coding.

[Mclaneinc]

 

Might this be the best shooter in abbuc history

 

 

Oops, now he will start stalking you....

 

If you look out of the window and see a large bloke in a full length coat holding what looks like a banana while smiling at you then be afraid!!

[+Philsan]

Strange.

So, everytime a member receives the ABBUC magazin he can make an atr of the attached disk (or simply go to ABBUC reserved download area for members and download it) and publish it?

I´ve just found the time to read here again and I must say I am a little bit surprised.

First of all: Not "an ABBUC member" released the disks, it was the Head of software ressort (me) who released the disk image. As head of Software Ressort I am arrogant enough to say that I think it was ok. In my reading the contest ends after all contributions arrived. That point is clearly defined by the Deadline. So I don´t feel wrong here.

@skr

I was replying to Bunsen regarding the fact that he wrote that no rules exists which forbids ABBUC members to publish the disks attached to magazine (normal disks, not ABBUC Contest disk). So why those disks are in members download area and not in public area?

 

Regarding ABBUC Contest disk, I completely agree with Jason (ABBUC's member like me):

Games should be kept exclusive for abuuc subscribers for the period up to the vote.

The period between the end of the contest and the vote should be (1) long enough to play all of the games (try utilities) to make a realistic rating and (2) not too long so authors games are tied up. Perhaps 3-4 weeks

 

Abbuc should promote this contest as a great reason to subscribe. If you just give them away immediately you are missing a trick.

Non German speaking Atari users should consider subscribing as the annual 30+Euros price is very reasonable for these games alone. More importantly this goes towards the prize money which supports and encourages more and perhaps better games.

[Fox-1 / mnx]

So I ask you guys here on Atari Age, what do you should be changed at the software contest.

 

Change: release the software to the public after the JHV.

 

 

please don´t forget to tell me if you are an ABBUC member or not.

 

Guilty. (I'm a member)

[Mathy]

Hello Robert

 

Change: release the software to the public after the JHV.

 

The rights to the software belong to the owner/writer of the software. So the ABBUC can not release it, as it doesn't have the right to do so.

 

Mathy (also a member)

[TMR]

To be honest, i don't mind waiting a few weeks to publicly release what i've entered into the competition myself, although it's an achingly long time when you're waiting to see what everybody else did. =-)

[Fox-1 / mnx]

The rights to the software belong to the owner/writer of the software. So the ABBUC can not release it, as it doesn't have the right to do so.

 

Replace "release" with "green light to the author" or something similar.