fernando marrin Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 http://www.atariage....t/page__st__450 Allan So what ??!! sent over 12 carts last month, not 1 problem, except that, OFFERED A REFUND, wonder what else did he want... i'm also showing Myide 2 for Atari 8 bit http://www.atariage....rimax-mr-atari/ and have Moon Patrol Arcade 5200 half baked but that's off topic, what does that have to do with anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 There seems to be a whole lotta off topic here. The question was: Is it time for an XM status update? I'm pretty sure the community answer is: Yes. Not sure how much more productive things can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Let me share one of my Legacy Engineering experiences. I purchased no less than 4 Atari Joysticks over the years. 2 were of an earlier revision where there was no external cable and USB port, but the cable came directly out of the joystick. The other 2 were the 'newer' design with a USB port on the outside accepting an external cable. One of the earlier revision joysticks, likely due to too much harsh tugging and messing around by me, caused some of the internal wire connections to the PCB to come off. I reached out to Curt, admitting what was likely my mistake, and within a week's time not only did he fulfill my request of sending me a new PCB with wire leads so I could just swap it myself, but another brand new joystick. I understand the frustration people, I would love to see some more communication too, but really how constructive or helpful is any of this? As far as I am concerned, Curt's last major update said this would be his focus now, taking the majority of his available time. If I see no update, I will presume it is because he is busy working on the project with the several other people he has coordinated with in getting this to us as soon as possible. Also as mentioned earlier Curt is indeed right in the path of not only Sandy, but the Nor'easter that hit as well. Even multi-million and billion dollar companies have major delays and set-backs. Hell, the company I am working at now with hundreds of people working on a project with millions to spend is 18 months behind schedule in delivering. This is one man coordinating with a few others in a very ambitious project in getting out a non-defective, bug-free product. Look at his 'Legacy' and I don't mean the store, he has spent well above and beyond the money provided towards this project for years and is well known not only by this community but many other businesses, including the current "Atari" owners. Without Curt there may likely never have been any Flashback consoles released, and quite a number of rare and precious items of Atari's history would have been lost forever to say the very least. He's throwing all that away or trying to soil his reputation with this one project...Really? Think about it. Could he use improvement in his communication skills? Sure. But really, the pitchforks and torches are a bit much. Edited November 9, 2012 by Trebor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 so in other words...shut up, quit your bitchin, and your whining! Don't want to wait get a refund and piss off! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I've been in the position of having taken money for pre-orders for projects that did not get completed in the time frame originally envisioned (Adventure II and Boulder Dash). I don't enjoy doing this, so I rarely take money for pre-orders, and prefer instead to have the project completed before I start selling it. That's why I'm not taking money in advance for more copies of Halo 2600. Communication is very important if you're taking money for pre-orders, and especially if there are delays. I communicated regularly regarding Adventure II and Boulder Dash, and that communication goes a long way towards reducing angst. Yes, absolutely. I have tried to be reserved about my concerns for the 7800XM because, from my experience with the Aquaricart for the Mattel Aquarius, I'm well aware of how challenging it can be to successfully finish such projects in a timely manner. That's especially true of the 7800XM, which is much more ambitious than my humble little Aquaricart ever was, is intended to have all the polish of a quality retail product, and involves several people, in different countries and on different schedules, working together collaboratively. Most of us who undertake hobby projects like these are, out of necessity, doing so during our free time and primarily for our own enjoyment. It's possible to make some money from supporting legacy platforms, and it's always gratifying to get positive feedback from fellow hobbyists, but in the end, the experience of doing it must be its own reward. Unfortunately, real life and its obligations often get in the way, and must demand our best energy. In my opinion, anyone who is considering a project like this, and who wants to see it finished, should try to do certain things from the beginning to keep the fun from being drained out of it: Don't accept money for preorders. A hobby project is all about fun at first, with one hobbyist showing off to another what he has created. But as soon as any money at all changes hands, regardless of the sums involved, it moves into an entirely different milieu: admiring peers become customers who demand estimates, and their enthusiasm for the final product is less than what it would have been if they had purchased it outright after it was finished. I went the preorder route with the Aquaricart because I wasn't in a position at the time to fund it on my own, and surely enough, it ended up dragging on until the following year. My customers were very understanding, but there was a lot of stress on my end to get the damned thing done, even without anyone hectoring me for status updates or refunds. I would have enjoyed that process a lot more if my own desire to do a good job on it, rather than the pressure to fulfill a financial obligation, had remained my primary motivation. Keep the lines of communication as open and as active as possible. This should be an obvious one. It takes only a few minutes to post a public update to explain the reasons for any current delays or difficulties. During the Aquaricart development, I threw in lots of new feature ideas along the way which delayed its completion, but in the "development thread" here on AtariAge, I did my best to keep everyone up to date and informed. I think that had a lot to do with the patience my preorder customers showed to me; they always understood what I was doing and why. Don't spread yourself too thin. My impression, possibly mistaken, is that the Legacy Engineering folks are taking on too many projects at once: the Atari books, the 7800XM, the USB CX-40 joysticks, etc. Perhaps it's a result of Curt's unique position in the Atari community, but even so, there's only so much that a handful of people can do. I only hope that this experience doesn't sour anyone against undertaking or supporting more hobby projects like the 7800XM. It is because of such projects that this particular hobby remains so active and interesting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Brigade Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 For those who suggested Curt might be offline due to Hurricane Sandy: Nope. http://google.org/crisismap/2012-sandy He's in Carmel, NY which is more than an hour upstate from NYC and nowhere near the coast. He may have lost power for a day or so when the storm hit, but that was nearly 2 weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinMos3 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 so in other words...shut up, quit your bitchin, and your whining! Don't want to wait get a refund and piss off! I'm wondering to whom you are responding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Brigade Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Voice your concerns all you want, but please stop with this "cult of curt brigade" rubbish, it's childish. *ahem* so in other words...shut up, quit your bitchin, and your whining! Don't want to wait get a refund and piss off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 He's in Carmel, NY which is more than an hour upstate from NYC and nowhere near the coast. He may have lost power for a day or so when the storm hit, but that was nearly 2 weeks ago. Sandy was just last week, 9-10 days ago and the same areas were just hit with a Nor'easter 2 days ago. The damage was and is far worse than even reported. Believe me, I am further north than Carmel and there were/are plenty of people that went without power for days along with losing power again recently in places not near the coast. Were the areas by the coast worse? Absolutely; however, there are plenty of places north and west of the coast that were hit relatively hard too. Either way, like I asked earlier, what is the point exactly? Debating this stuff is neither constructive nor helpful. This thread has gone 'just a tad' off-track requesting an "XM status update" and has degraded to questioning a person's character, motives, as well as trying to interpret or know a person's personal circumstances and situation, including external factors (Such as weather) that may or may not impacted their ability to communicate. There is no denying there should be better communication and a status update would be nice. But as stated earlier, the symbolic pitchforks and torches are a bit much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 happened to me too, but with multiple joysticks orders, in my case EDITED,don't want to get banned Just keep selling items "not as described" and dumping the ROMS off of homebrew games (without permission mind you) and you won't have to keep crying about getting banned. People within this community will run you out of town...without the help of any moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Like many others, I don't mind the wait as long as I get it in the end. I'd just like the constant updates as promised, that's all. Just keep selling items "not as described" and dumping the ROMS off of homebrew games (without permission mind you) and you won't have to keep crying about getting banned. People within this community will run you out of town...without the help of any moderators. QFTT! it had detailed photos, bought it that way, works fine if you're not happy with it return it ,i'll refund you i can sell it again in minutes Edited November 10, 2012 by Austin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqoon Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Reading this thread made me so glad I did not preorder the XM, nor have any intent of preordering games for it. I wonder if same caution might be warranted for Colecovision SGM games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Reading this thread made me so glad I did not preorder the XM, nor have any intent of preordering games for it. I wonder if same caution might be warranted for Colecovision SGM games? Nope...that seems to have been properly thought out and is going as planned so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) Reading this thread made me so glad I did not preorder the XM, nor have any intent of preordering games for it. I wonder if same caution might be warranted for Colecovision SGM games? Reading through the various threads here on AA there has been one common complaint surrounding the XM: lack of status updates. Eduardo has been diligent in providing status updates on the SGM project. Edited November 10, 2012 by rmaerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The SGM has been updated and communicated well on the forums. I am looking forward to that project as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqoon Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 By no means was that a jab at Eduardo or SGM. I know SGM should be shipping soon, but it seems like games for it are slow in coming. Almost opposite of the 7800 XM situation, but still having the same effect. Having one (expansion module) without the other (compatible games) essentially results in an expensive door stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 By no means was that a jab at Eduardo or SGM. I know SGM should be shipping soon, but it seems like games for it are slow in coming. Almost opposite of the 7800 XM situation, but still having the same effect. Having one (expansion module) without the other (compatible games) essentially results in an expensive door stop. I'm pretty sure that Pixelboy already listed the games he will have available and the dates corresponding. It looks like there will be more than I can afford to even buy at the launch of the SGM. You should look at his site...there is also a thread on it somewhere in the forum. Really good stuff on the horizon for that product....but back to the XM... @Curt...if you have time to post on Facebook, I am sure you can spare 2 minutes to let us know where things are at...just a sign that this is still on the radar would be acceptable. Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Miccoli Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I also pre-ordered the expansion module XM, I remain confident about completing the project. But a small sign of life from Curt, would please everyone. from Italy Marco Miccoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoTonah Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I've been debating whether to share my experience with Legacy Engineering. Anyway, I bought a USB Atari joystick from them. The site said was in stock. It didn't arrive within a week so I was concerned. I sent numerous emails (at one point almost every day) and very rarely got responses back. Sometimes I got emails back saying it was going to ship tomorrow (which were lies). Other times I got really nasty be patient messages that they were looking for a box and one time he said New York is under water due to a hurricane so he can't get to the post office. (this was two years ago) I constantly asked for my money back with no response. Finally after two and half months, the joystick arrived. I should have reversed the charges with my credit card company and filed a complaint with the BBB but I didn't. From what I've found around here, this experience is very common when dealing with Legacy Engineering. It just seems like they really don't care about their customers. Wow, that's amazingly similar to what I'm going through. Except I still haven't gotten my FB2 stick mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Wow! What an outpouring of love for somebody who has done so much for the Atari community . Without Curt's involvement in the Atari scene there would be no XM, no Flashbacks, probably no book on what really happened in Atari's history, no back in the day game source code released for multiple platforms, fewer 7800 prototypes discovered and released and much less technical/historical information on a variety of Atari consoles and computers (probably other projects wouldn't exist too). To the various XM factions.... To the people that say the XM doesn't exist and its a hoax: What can I say? The Earth must be flat to you guys huh? There are plenty of photos and videos on AA and the XM status page showing many aspects of the XM from CAD renderings, physical PCBs to boxes of final plastics, nameplates etc. There are also photos and videos of the XM taken by 3rd parties on multiple web sites too. So with all that hard evidence just an Internet search away either the XM really does exist or Curt and I are master photoshopper control freaks or maybe you just like trolling. Take your pick. To the people that don't see the point in the XM or its specification is wrong: Homebrew can be new hardware, software, documentation, boxes, PCBs, flashcarts or whatever people want to spend their time and money creating. People making contributions both large and small to the scene is a good thing in my opinion. It breathes new life into the hobby and creates plenty of new discussion too. Lets face it, the scene would be pretty dry if you were still talking about your best Dig Dug score 30 years on. Not everybody is going to like every project but that is just human nature. It doesn't make the original project creator wrong. If you don't like a project then vote with your wallet and don't buy it. Nobody has ever said that you aren't entitled to your opinion but going on and on about it ad nauseum is a sure fire way to piss off the original project developer(s) (and maybe scare off potential new ones) as well as bugging the crap out of the project's supporters too. To the people that think the XM doesn't work: The XM has been seen working fine by 100s of people at the various shows across Europe. At Replay 2011 (UK's largest retro/modern gaming event) there were 5000 people through the doors at the weekend. When I was at Play Expo (with the XM and Jaguar on the Oldschool Gaming stand) in October this year there were 5000 people through the doors on the Saturday alone . The XM was also at eJagFest 2011 (Germany) and AC2012 (France). I even entered the Speed Coding Contest at AC2012 with the XM too. The XM was also at several low key homebrew events too like the homebrew coding weekend and the Video Olympics. Anybody who showed more than a passing interest in the XM at any of the shows/events has had a personal tour of the upcoming games and tech demos too. Nobody went away unhappy. Unfortunately the XM hasn't faired very well on the other side of the pond because it never survived its postal journey from Curt to Marty . Given the delicate nature of prototypes it was always going to be a concern using the postal system. To The people that think the games are all secret: If that is the case then they must be the worst kept secret on the forums because I'd guess that easily 100+ people have played several of the games at the shows and events. That number includes a bunch of people who have seen a more in depth view of what the XM allows the 7800 to do and plenty of AA members too. To be honest, even if the XM had been released last year none of my games would have been ready at that time. That is just the nature of things done in spare time. Sure the XM status updates could be handled differently and there have been unexpected problems along the way but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the XM will ship. Curt and I (and others) have invested way too many hours and money kindly given in good faith for it not to happen. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Thanks for taking the time to write this up Mark, I'm sure it will be appreciated by many and help clear up some of the misconceptions. ..Al 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmervine Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Thanks for taking the time to write this up Mark, I'm sure it will be appreciated by many and help clear up some of the misconceptions. ..Al Ditto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqoon Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Without Curt's involvement in the Atari scene there would be no XM, no Flashbacks, Not debating the other points, but as far as I understand, he had nothing to do with FB3 or FB4. So, yes, some Flashbacks would have happened anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Not debating the other points, but as far as I understand, he had nothing to do with FB3 or FB4. So, yes, some Flashbacks would have happened anyway. If Curt hadn't pressed forward with the original Flashback, it's doubtful any of the follow-on products would have been released, including the FB3 and FB4. ..Al 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Not debating the other points, but as far as I understand, he had nothing to do with FB3 or FB4. Apart from Curt being a consultant/tester for them, then you are correct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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