Colecovision vs 7800 vs 5200

[+Cafeman]

The horrible sound of most 7800 games (the ones w/out Pokey) was the real deal-breaker for me - I still prefer 5200 over 7800 (and CV) by a country mile. I prefer the 5200 sticks (when they are aligned/maintained well) over the equally-crappy CV and 7800 controllers. I hate the 5200 side-buttons though.

[DracIsBack]

That's just it, though. The decision to throw the POKEY as a 'cart add-on' meant that those carts would inherently cost more (remember how cheap Atari was with chips of any sort) and that Atari would decide to NOT use them whenever they thought they could get away with it. (Which is exactly how it went down). It was simply a DUMB cost-cutting move with entirely predictable results.

 

Not disagreeing with your point. Just that the intent was different than the reality. Obviously, Atari wouldn't have 'always used sound chips", but I think you probably would have seen a lot more games with them with Warner at the healm than Tramiel.

[Jaynz]

Maybe? Hard to say in all honesty. The CV and 7800 hit right when the market was shifting and most of those 'in the industry' really just thought that the video game 'craze' was a dying fad rather than recognize a generational change in technology. (In other words, imagine that when the PS1 sales slowed down finally, the entire gaming industry up and said "it's over, no one wants gaming anymore, time to move on to Care Bears and Teddy Ruxpin and forget all about that stupid PS2." That's about what really happened). Even Warner wasn't all that forward-thinking in retrospect.. would they have had more games and more with extended carts than Tramiel? Maybe. But they really didn't get what was happening in the market either, and probably would have looked at 'cost-cutting measures' consistently rather than embrace new technology for gaming.

 

It was a very different mindset than what we have now.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Jaynz

[Trebor]

TIA could sound better for games if it was done right and not rushed for games like Donkey Kong:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVPDkQl7Nl0

 

Compare 2600 DK VCS sound choices to original 7800 Donkey Kong and the difference is night and day.

[Jaynz]

You can get some pretty good sound out of the TIA (since it was a pretty basic waveform chip), even digitized voices, but the problem is dedicating your SERIOUSLY limited processor time and memory to mixing. So it was a bit more involved than simply 'not rushing'. It would have really driven the costs up skyward to get the TIA to do the things that POKEY, TI, and SID were all doing natively.

[Trebor]

You can get some pretty good sound out of the TIA (since it was a pretty basic waveform chip), even digitized voices, but the problem is dedicating your SERIOUSLY limited processor time and memory to mixing. So it was a bit more involved than simply 'not rushing'. It would have really driven the costs up skyward to get the TIA to do the things that POKEY, TI, and SID were all doing natively.

Agreed; it is no substitution for POKEY or the other chips, just again, could have sounded better if handled differently; DK VCS being just one such example.

[7800]

time to move on to Care Bears and Teddy Ruxpin and forget all about that stupid PS2.

 

This made me laugh.

[Jaynz]

This made me laugh.

 

But, like I said, that's actually what happened. People forget that the crash of 1984 was actually the SECOND great video game crash. The first was in 1978 with the death of the 'pong consoles'. It was the same thing, technology in gaming had progressed to the point where existing consoles were facing obsolescence. Gaming audiences simply wanted better, more up-to-date hardware. The 'powers that be', however, kept saying "That fad is finally over, let's move on to Stompers and Rubix Cubes". Video Games actually pissed off toy stores in 1984 as 'the fad that took too long to die'... so FEW people who made the decisions were really thinking "It's time to unleash the next generation". They hadn't really learned the lessons of 1978, so it repeated to a more dramatic end in 1984.

 

It really would be like Sony suddenly deciding "Well, the PS1 has run its course, to sell Teddy Ruxpin as the next big thing and forget all about video games". Coleco did this even more literally, gutting their successful Colecovision line for Adam (home family computers was the new 'fad', they had thought), then gutting that failure to sell Cabbage Patch Kids.

[7800]

No, it literally made me laugh... I thought it was a funny line.

[Falconhood]

No way! I don't know what Controllers you got, but the Colecovision had the best controllers of that era. And games? The games were compariable to Atari, but when I was 12 and first got the Colecovision from my mom for christmas, and the ATari 5200 from my dad, i felt like Atari was being a one-trick-pony. Same games we already played on the 2600, but with better graphics and sound, whereas Coleco's games were FRESH!

[Falconhood]

The 7800 can't really compare, it was later. The CV and 5200 were contemporaries and adversaries. 7800 came out AFTER the crash of the 80s to get back in homes, and compete with NES and SMS.

O2/2600/Intv were all competitors, then Coleco showed-up, and Atari 5200 had to save face...then the crash, and I found the Arcadia in a CVS bin strapped to 20 games for $10 total.

[7800]

The thing is, The 7800 was probably designed in 1983 and released in 1984... then shelved until 1986. From one point of view, the 7800 was a ColecoVision rival. Atari was ahead of it's time for a little while, then quickly fell behind. I think they had too many eggs in one basket. As much as I love the 5200, it would have been better if they didn't even produce it and focused all attention on the 7800, and go with the "all cartridge POKEY" concept. It's water under the bridge.

Edited July 15, 2013 by 7800

[Falconhood]

I found the Atari 7800 by surprise at the Flea Market, way after the NES. It's part of the 3rd Generation consoles with NES and SMS. I remember seeing it AFTER already played my friend's robot NES game system for years, and saying, wow, i never knew Atari had another baby! I grabbed it, and loved one of the games it came with, Food Fight.

http://en.wikipedia....ird_generation)

came out June 1, 1986, which is after NES in the USA, and overshadowed by Sega Master System on the same day.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Falconhood

[Trebor]

The thing is, The 7800 was probably designed in 1983 and released in 1984... then shelved until 1986. From one point of view, the 7800 was a ColecoVision rival.

 

From the same point of view, the NES would be a rival for ColecoVision as well, released in 1983 as the Famicom...then released to test markets in the US in 1985, full nationwide release in 1986.

[Trebor]

...overshadowed by Sega Master System

 

Not sure what you mean by "overshadowed", but that wasn't the case in the US. It sold much less than the 7800, about half.

[sMS ~2 million units sold. 7800 ~4 million units sold.]

[7800]

I found the Atari 7800 by surprise at the Flea Market, way after the NES. It's part of the 3rd Generation consoles with NES and SMS. I remember seeing it AFTER already played my friend's robot NES game system for years, and saying, wow, i never knew Atari had another baby! I grabbed it, and loved one of the games it came with, Food Fight.

http://en.wikipedia....ird_generation)

came out June 1, 1986, which is after NES in the USA, and overshadowed by Sega Master System on the same day.

 

I love wikapedia, but I'm pretty sure they left out the fact that the 7800 had a limited release in only part of the U.S. in '84... If I'm not mistaken. If I am mistaken, I'm sure my ass will be handed to me in 3, 2, 1,...

[Falconhood]

Not sure what you mean by "overshadowed", but that wasn't the case in the US. It sold much less than the 7800, about half.

[sMS ~2 million units sold. 7800 ~4 million units sold.]

that's not what the stats are on this page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_video_game_consoles_(third_generation)

SMS sold the same in the USA, but World Wide, it murdered Atari 7800

Btw, FAMICOM came out in 1983, but was not retail sold in the USA until 1986, so you really can't say that it COMPETED with anything in the USA until 1986. Test marketing is NOT competition.

[Jinks]

As far as I know the only console from atari oitside us was the vcs and jag. everything else was unheard of. Everyone and their dog had sms and nes where i grew up in Canada. When someone mentioned atari the only thing that ever came to mind was a sears arcade unit cause thats all thier ever was. The people that made the internet made up a story about everything else atari and sold millions!!

[Trebor]

Btw, FAMICOM came out in 1983, but was not retail sold in the USA until 1986, so you really can't say that it COMPETED with anything in the USA until 1986. Test marketing is NOT competition.

I'm fully away of when what systems sold. My post was in reply to: "The thing is, The 7800 was probably designed in 1983 and released in 1984... then shelved until 1986. From one point of view, the 7800 was a ColecoVision rival."

 

I quoted that statement and replied with: "From the same point of view, the NES would be a rival for ColecoVision as well, released in 1983 as the Famicom...then released to test markets in the US in 1985, full nationwide release in 1986."

 

I disagree with the logic that the 7800 was a rival to the ColecoVision, but if one was to have that point of view with the logic provided in what I quoted in my reply, then the same point of view would hold true for the NES being a rival to the ColecoVision.

 

My view and logic dictates that the SMS/NES/7800 were rivals and the 5200/ColecoVision were rivals.

 

Any extension to rivalry of the 5200/ColecoVision to the mix would fall more like: "2600-5200/ColecoVision/Intellivision" were rivals.

To throw the 7800 into that mix would be the same as to place the NES and/or SMS in the same boat.

[Trebor]

that's not what the stats are on this page.

http://en.wikipedia....ird_generation)

SMS sold the same in the USA, but World Wide, it murdered Atari 7800

 

Agreed outside the US, the SMS did better than the 7800. Again, I stated US in my previous post.

 

The stats on the page you have linked to are only providing sales data for the Atari 7800 up to June of 1988 which was 2 million, compared to the sales of the SMS by 1992 of 2 million. The 7800 sold almost an additional 2 million units after June of 1988 in the US. The system was not discontinued until ~the end of 1991/beginning of 1992.

 

http://www.gamasutra..._1986__1990.php

As of 1990 the 7800 sold ~3.77 million units.

 

Another ~1.5 years after what you linked as sales data for the 7800 would bring us to the same comparison of the SMS 1992, 2 million figure; which the 7800 already easily surpassed earlier.

[DracIsBack]

The thing is, The 7800 was probably designed in 1983 and released in 1984... then shelved until 1986. From one point of view, the 7800 was a ColecoVision rival.

 

Colecovision was still earlier than either though - probably in design in 1981 and released in 1982. Not much which earlier, which is why there's less of a leap to the 7800 and NES (which was in market in Japan in 1983) from the Colecovision as there was from the 2600 and Intellivision. But it still had some limits like a very narrow color palette and no hardware assisted scrolling.

[DracIsBack]

As far as I know the only console from atari oitside us was the vcs and jag. everything else was unheard of. Everyone and their dog had sms and nes where i grew up in Canada. When someone mentioned atari the only thing that ever came to mind was a sears arcade unit cause thats all thier ever was. The people that made the internet made up a story about everything else atari and sold millions!!

 

In Canada? I had an SMS and knew only a couple of others who had them. A few for sure, but only three or four others. Everyone and their dog had the NES. A few people had the SMS in my experience. Many more got the genesis

[+LS650]

Why does it have to be a 'versus' thing? Can't you enjoy and appreciate all three?

 

I think each system has its strengths and its weaknesses, and each has games that can't be found on the others.

[Trebor]

Why does it have to be a 'versus' thing? Can't you enjoy and appreciate all three?

 

I think each system has its strengths and its weaknesses, and each has games that can't be found on the others.

 

Agree 100%...As this is what these type of threads turn into.

[7800]

We can all go tit for tat about who was competing against who, etc. until we're blue in the face. Simply put and regardless of timelines, I think the Atari VCS was the one that started it all, and all other Atari systems moving forward were one step behind. While other companies like Mattel Electronics and Nintendo made leaps and bounds, Atari hesitated and ultimately took shortcuts while playing catch up. With this said, I don't consider any of the Atari systems contenders.