Colecovision vs 7800 vs 5200

[+Defender_2600]

I absolutely LOVE the Donkey Kong Arcade for the 7800. It shows what the system COULD have done; but I still feel a little jerky/floaty movement, and that is a limitation of the system, as it's common in all 7800 games I have played.

 

 

I'm assuming that you are referring to perceptions already exposed in this old message:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/176685-could-maria-have-been-an-expansion/?p=2202579

 

"...There is just something that is not as fluent in the 7800 games as they are in the 8-bit counterparts... It's kind of like I can SEE the screen refreshing, and I almost notice each sprite moving one at a time (like 2600), where the 8-bit games seem to move all at once -- like the arcade, 5200/8-bit, NES or even Colecovision. ..."

 

In the following GIF of 7800 Donkey Kong XM / PK you can see how the sprites are moving _all at once_. The barrels were moving at 2 pixels per frame which of course is a considered choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S.

"...Try drawing a Mario that looks just like the arcade, colecovision, or NES. He'll look like a big-nosed freak..."

 

...big-nosed freak...lol.

 

[+darryl1970]

 

I'm assuming that you are referring to perceptions already exposed in this old message:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/176685-could-maria-have-been-an-expansion/?p=2202579

 

"...There is just something that is not as fluent in the 7800 games as they are in the 8-bit counterparts... It's kind of like I can SEE the screen refreshing, and I almost notice each sprite moving one at a time (like 2600), where the 8-bit games seem to move all at once -- like the arcade, 5200/8-bit, NES or even Colecovision. ..."

 

In the following GIF of 7800 Donkey Kong XM / PK you can see how the sprites are moving _all at once_. The barrels were moving at 2 pixels per frame which of course is a considered choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S.

"...Try drawing a Mario that looks just like the arcade, colecovision, or NES. He'll look like a big-nosed freak..."

 

...big-nosed freak...lol.

 

They're moving at the same time, but the games still feel floaty, much like many 2600 games. The gameplay just doesn't feel tight.

Additionally, some games have a delay in control.

 

The Nintendo NES does have an arcade perfect Mario in Donkey Kong (other than possible color difference). Mario (general graphics) is ONE of the things they got right. He doesn't look like a big-nose freak on the NES. He even has the ear notch, just like the arcade.

 

Without sacrificing colors, the 7800 has 160 horizontal pixels. The NES and CV have 256 horizontal pixels. The pixels are less rectangle stretches, as opposed to the 2600, 5200, and 7800 sprite pixel size. It's a big difference. The 7800 can outdo both, using 320 mode, but then the sprites lack transparency -- useless. So close to not being disappointing. I have my Atari 2600, 5200, 7800, 800xl, Colecovision, and NES hooked up to a Sony Vega CRT (Not emulation), and I have the arcade Donkey Kong on the other side of the room. I can tell you from experience that emulators are not a good measuring reference. They tend to stretch out many of the systems to some degree.

 

On a real CRT, it's very obvious. However, I still love my Atari collection, flaws and strengths. I am just being real.

[78001987]

"Mario is a big nosed freak"

 

Well, he is Italian.

[+Defender_2600]

"Mario is a big nosed freak"

 

Well, he is Italian.

 

..ha..ha..

 

[Ransom]

All three have their points. But for me, the most important things are the existing game library and what's being developed for it in the future. The 5200 and CV have great game libraries from BITD (the 7800 less so). All three have great homebrews with more on the way (the 5200 less so).

 

Given what I just wrote, I guess the CV is the best of the three.

[Rhomaios]

All three have their points. But for me, the most important things are the existing game library and what's being developed for it in the future. The 5200 and CV have great game libraries from BITD (the 7800 less so). All three have great homebrews with more on the way (the 5200 less so).

 

Given what I just wrote, I guess the CV is the best of the three.

 

The 7800 had the 2600 library without an add-on...so...

[+pboland]

We went to (I think) Children's Palace. It was SOLD OUT.. All they had was this NES system.

 

Wow! I miss Children's Palace. It was so much better than Toy R Us. I use to buy my Sega Master System games there.

 

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

[+darryl1970]

 

Wow! I miss Children's Palace. It was so much better than Toy R Us. I use to buy my Sega Master System games there.

 

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

Oh.. Don't feel bad interjecting. I believe it's a pretty common subject. I was looking around, came across it again and it inspired me to comment.

 

You actually reminded me that my friend had gotten a Sega Master System. We actually thought it was *weaker* than the NES, just because Nintendo had the monopoly on licenses. Funny how one's perspective can be swayed. It's a pretty sweet system! I've played some Mortal Kombat & SFII in emulation. pretty impressive for 8-bit!

[Jinks]

7800 hammers the 5200 and coleco. Thats why atari stopped making the 5200 so early to make the 7800 so 5200 people with chips on their shoulders could make threads like these for the next 40 years. Let it go people! Go back to repairing your controller to get another game in.

[Nutsy Doodleheimer]

♥♥♥Hello...... Judy!!!♥♥♥

 

http://youtu.be/x1kFcGpAnNk

The nerdy kid with the hot dog! Everywhere!?!? O_o

Sign me up for the U.S. Video game team

http://youtu.be/irAVsYFZs7g

[+Defender_2600]

Without sacrificing colors, the 7800 has 160 horizontal pixels. The NES and CV have 256 horizontal pixels. The pixels are less rectangle stretches, as opposed to the 2600, 5200, and 7800 sprite pixel size. It's a big difference. The 7800 can outdo both, using 320 mode, but then the sprites lack transparency -- useless. So close to not being disappointing.

 

Asteroids Deluxe, AstroBlaster, CrazyBrix, Frenzy/Berzerk, Froggie, Moon Cresta, One on One Basketball, Rip-Off, Scramble, Space Invaders,Tower Toppler: these 7800 games are all made in 320 mode and all of them have transparency. About Pac-Man 320/Ms. Pac-Man 320, I think the little black box around the sprites is really a minor imperfection (not easily visible, especially on traditional CRT TV).

 

The 7800 320 mode shows square pixels (pixel aspect ratio: 0.9 NTSC and 1.0 PAL) and can replicate the correct aspect ratio of the arcade graphics.

The NES with 256 horizontal pixels by 240 vertical pixels display wide pixels and therefore wide sprites/tiles compared to arcade graphics / 7800 320 mode . Same goes for ColecoVision, Sega Master System, CoCo 3, etc., for these systems the pixel aspect ratio is approximately 1.2 NTSC and 1.4 PAL.

 

On the other hand, the 7800 160 mode (1.7 NTSC pixel aspect ratio ) can display a large number of color and an enormous number of sprites on the screen, each sprite/ tile can use from 3 to _12_ colors plus transparency _without limits of size (great flexibility)_ and flickering absent.

The 7800 features a broad palette of 256 colors, in layman's terms it means having more than a dozen of blue, green, orange, etc., that you could use it to design night scenery, forests, sunsets, etc., therefore the color depth can be considerable despite of the wide pixel aspect ratio.

The NES features a palette of just 53 colors, 8x8 tiles / 3 colors, 8x8 or 8x16 sprites / 3 colors. In conclusion, each system has its strengths.

 

For the record, recently I repurchased a brand new NES. I would like to have time to use it, though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+darryl1970]

 

Asteroids Deluxe, AstroBlaster, CrazyBrix, Frenzy/Berzerk, Froggie, Moon Cresta, One on One Basketball, Rip-Off, Scramble, Space Invaders,Tower Toppler: these 7800 games are all made in 320 mode and all of them have transparency. About Pac-Man 320/Ms. Pac-Man 320, I think the little black box around the sprites is really a minor imperfection (not easily visible, especially on traditional CRT TV).

 

The 7800 320 mode shows square pixels (pixel aspect ratio: 0.9 NTSC and 1.0 PAL) and can replicate the correct aspect ratio of the arcade graphics.

The NES with 256 horizontal pixels by 240 vertical pixels display wide pixels and therefore wide sprites/tiles compared to arcade graphics / 7800 320 mode . Same goes for ColecoVision, Sega Master System, CoCo 3, etc., for these systems the pixel aspect ratio is approximately 1.2 NTSC and 1.4 PAL.

 

On the other hand, the 7800 160 mode (1.7 NTSC pixel aspect ratio ) can display a large number of color and an enormous number of sprites on the screen, each sprite/ tile can use from 3 to _12_ colors plus transparency _without limits of size (great flexibility)_ and flickering absent.

The 7800 features a broad palette of 256 colors, in layman's terms it means having more than a dozen of blue, green, orange, etc., that you could use it to design night scenery, forests, sunsets, etc., therefore the color depth can be considerable despite of the wide pixel aspect ratio.

The NES features a palette of just 53 colors, 8x8 tiles / 3 colors, 8x8 or 8x16 sprites / 3 colors. In conclusion, each system has its strengths.

 

For the record, recently I repurchased a brand new NES. I would like to have time to use it, though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing! I didn't realize those games were not affected by the bounding box. After you mentioned this, I remembered reading that there are multiple 320 modes on the 7800. I think the mode with the bounding box was chosen, because it allowed the number of colors needed for Pac/MsPac. I Googled and found this information.

 

I see the beauty of the 7800 160 modes with multi colored sprites. Know that I am not discounting that. The number of colors can make up for some resolution issues. I just had/have a personal disappointment in focusing the strength on an outdated resolution. Prior to the aforementioned games, I did not know the 320 mode existed. When I first saw the Froggie demo, I thought it was a fluke in emulation.

 

When I saw Pac/MsPac320, I was excited but disappointed in the lack of colors, as the highest 320 color mode doesn't seem like it has enough for a proper Ms Pac-Man. I was severely disappointed by the lack of transparency (at least in that mode). I think that a console developed in 1983/84 should have been able to bring a more faithful version of Ms Pac-Man. However, on the flip side, I was at least happy to find out that the 7800 does have a 320 mode! As great as Maria is, I think it's a pretty big oversight to focus more on 160 mode in 1983/84. Although it does a great job in some games, others look really bad for the date (compare NES Dig Dug to 7800, especially when traveling vertically).

(I didn't make these images)

 

In the end, knowing there is a 320 mode on the 7800 got me really excited. Having worked on the XL computers for a long time, I personally felt the 160 Player/Missiles were a weakness to the 8-bit/5200's. Even though I was a huge Atari fan, I always felt the higher resolution sprites were a definite advantage for ColecoVision (same for NES later). When I first saw the 7800, seeing the same low-res sprites (most commonly used for color), really hurt my first impression. The sound destroyed it. I was able to let go of that disappointment, because the number of flicker-free colors was really good. Also, as I learned that add-in sound was a plan, I realized it was more a tragedy of circumstances than planning (Atari being sold to Tramiel and less concern about quality than budget). Even though Ms Pac-Man didn't look much better than the 8-bit version, it played better, and I am sure some of that has to do with moving less objects around to get multiple colored characters.

 

I will say that Ms Pac-Man didn't have the "floaty" feeling I mentioned before. I saw it more in games like the horrible Mario Bros copy, DK, DK Jr, and a few others.

Edited June 3, 2015 by darryl1970

[+darryl1970]

7800 hammers the 5200 and coleco. Thats why atari stopped making the 5200 so early to make the 7800 so 5200 people with chips on their shoulders could make threads like these for the next 40 years. Let it go people! Go back to repairing your controller to get another game in.

This is not the site for negative, condescending insults. This is a place to share childhood memories and discuss and share past perceptions. It's fun. I know this subject has been hashed out, but I liked this thread, because it's not about insulting the other systems, it seems more about being objective. Much of it is pointing out flaws, yet reveling in the strengths. The great thing about this thread is that we get to share and read other perspectives.

 

This comment is completely rude and it sounds like something a thoughtless, ignorant middle school kid would say. I was really excited to see there was a comment on the thread, but reading this ruined my whole drive to work. I am still sadly disappointed. I just couldn't believe that somebody would spew such ignorance and disrespect in a place that many come to get away and look back at the good old days.

[DracIsBack]

This is not the site for negative, condescending insults. This is a place to share childhood memories and discuss and share past perceptions. It's fun. I know this subject has been hashed out, but I liked this thread, because it's not about insulting the other systems, it seems more about being objective. Much of it is pointing out flaws, yet reveling in the strengths. The great thing about this thread is that we get to share and read other perspectives.

 

There's a bit of history on Atariage with 5200 owners bashing the 7800.

 

Go into the forum and start a thread about the 5200 vs a completely different system than the 7800 and sure enough, along the way, one 5200 will deliberately drag the 7800 into the thread to insult it. This will be followed by some commentary about how the 5200 has the best "number/quality ratio" and how having POKEY sound is so glorious that it will feed the earth's hungry children.

 

On occasion, a few have wandered here to start things. And it does come across as having a chip on their shoulder because the 5200 was discontinued. So it's a bit touchy.

 

I was really excited to see there was a comment on the thread, but reading this ruined my whole drive to work. I am still sadly disappointed.

 

 

Seems like a bit of an extreme reaction, honestly.

Edited June 3, 2015 by DracIsBack

[+darryl1970]

♥♥♥Hello...... Judy!!!♥♥♥

 

http://youtu.be/x1kFcGpAnNk

The nerdy kid with the hot dog! Everywhere!?!? O_o

Sign me up for the U.S. Video game team

http://youtu.be/irAVsYFZs7g

These are some great memories. Reminds me of the days when I was so hoping to win an Atari arcade, 5200, 800, etc from McDonald's! I know there are some of those commercials on the web too!

 

I was glad to see Atari finally advertising the 7800. It's just a shame that the programmers did such a terrible job with Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr., and Mario Bros.

 

Donkey Kong got an overhaul. I would really like to see Jr and Mario get one. It wouldn't take too much for Jr. Either tweak the sound or add Pokey, tweak some graphics, and fix the floaty jump.

 

Mario Bros would pretty much need rebuilt from the ground up, as it's pretty terrible. For starters, it's based off of the horrible NES version. It has the stupid looking shellcreepers, small fireballs, and it's lacking animation. The NES has decent sound, but the 7800 programmers did a horrible job. I know the tia can do better than that! Mario doesn't even go back to his standing position when he stops.

 

It was just funny to see the world champion playing the arcade Mario Bros and claiming to play the 7800 version at home. LOL. I loved the arcade Mario Bros, and I can't even stomach the 7800 version for more than 3 screens.

 

My point is that Donkey Kong Arcade really built my faith in the 7800. I'd love to see the other games fixed. The commercial just made me think of how unworthy those ports were.

[+darryl1970]

 

There's a bit of history on Atariage with 5200 owners bashing the 7800.

 

Go into the forum and start a thread about the 5200 vs a completely different system than the 7800 and sure enough, along the way, one 5200 will deliberately drag the 7800 into the thread to insult it. This will be followed by some commentary about how the 5200 has the best "number/quality ratio" and how having POKEY sound is so glorious that it will feed the earth's hungry children.

 

On occasion, a few have wandered here to start things. And it does come across as having a chip on their shoulder because the 5200 was discontinued. So it's a bit touchy.

 

 

Seems like a bit of an extreme reaction, honestly.

Okay. I can see where that COULD be an issue, if it is worded like the thread I commented on. That would not be right either.

I cannot say I would consider some of those things you listed as "bashing". Back in my childhood, I would argue indignantly about 2600 vs Intellivision. There was no objectivity involved. I can see where the 5200 may have had a better number/quality ratio if I think about it, but it's not an indicator of the 5200 being better. I think it has to do with Tramiel underpaying and rushing software designers. I would AGREE that is touchy in that case, because making that comment in a forum could be interpreted as bashing, depending on the recipient's mood. On the other hand it COULD be bashing if it was worded as rudely and harsh as the comment I was referring to.

 

Thanks for shining some light on it. Either way, two wrongs don't make a right, and I am glad you agree is was an extreme reaction. It was uncalled for for somebody to trample all over a fun discussion. If somebody feels it's overplayed, then stay out of it and go talk about something else.

[DracIsBack]

It also has gone the other way too, sadly. 7800 owners going into the 5200 forum to insult the controllers and the like.

[+darryl1970]

It also has gone the other way too, sadly. 7800 owners going into the 5200 forum to insult the controllers and the like.

Yeah. Well, I will hopefully just get back to enjoying the conversation.

 

I love the 5200 AND the controllers, but they suck for reliability. I figured out how to fix them early on.

I imagine that would be quite scarring for somebody who was not able to fix their controller.

For such an expensive system, that would be disappointing.

 

The sad truth is that the 5200 was just STARTING to see its potential when it was cancelled.

I think it's capable of more than what we've seen, but I understand that there are many reasons to not go there:

1. 7800 has better, easier, and bigger, multicolor sprites.
2. 5200 has unreliable controllers.
3. The 7800 is finding its potential through homebrew scene, and pokey can be added.
4. Some people would prefer to just develop for the 8-bit computer instead.
5. 7800 320 mode may work for an application, which would be killer.

However, I really think the 8-bits have an advantage in smoothness, because they do not have to work around the clock cycles the same way Maria does. While GTIA, Antic, and Pokey are handling things, the processor can focus on smoother gameplay. It loses some of that advantage if one has to "flicker" the Player/Missiles around to get multicolor characters, so I don't see a CLEAR winner. I DO see that the 7800 is just easier to get prettier results, and more people are going to be drawn to it for reliable controllers.

 

Reminds me that I need to check the XM progress. I really want to buy Donkey Kong Arcade/Pokey, but I was told further releases are on hold for the XM. Need to play this on my 7800!

[Lynxpro]

 

There's a bit of history on Atariage with 5200 owners bashing the 7800.

 

Go into the forum and start a thread about the 5200 vs a completely different system than the 7800 and sure enough, along the way, one 5200 will deliberately drag the 7800 into the thread to insult it. This will be followed by some commentary about how the 5200 has the best "number/quality ratio" and how having POKEY sound is so glorious that it will feed the earth's hungry children.

 

On occasion, a few have wandered here to start things. And it does come across as having a chip on their shoulder because the 5200 was discontinued. So it's a bit touchy.

 

 

Seems like a bit of an extreme reaction, honestly.

 

 

To be fair, plenty of ex-Atari Inc staff didn't like the 7800 from the get-go since it came from GCC and Atari Inc people were "fixing" the problems with the 5200 which wouldn't have required fixing had their managers listed to them prior to the console's release. When you listen to Jerry Jessop tell the story of how him and Tod Frye got a proposed console together that used an ANTIC and TIA working together with them and the CPU clocked at double the normal speed yet Warner wouldn't listen to them, you too can't feel disappointed in the later outcome especially since that console would play 2600 and 5200 games natively in addition to what this console would've done with its own library.

 

I like both consoles and I own both. However, the 7800 *is* a "cost reduced" console compared to the 5200 and that's evident in all of the documents that were written by GCC, Warner, and Atari Inc. There's definitely a difference in build quality with the consoles, the controllers, the cartridges, etc. When I was a kid, I wanted the 5200 but it was too expensive - I had my 2600 - until it was discontinued and then all the talk was about the 7800. I got the 7800 in 1986 and didn't ultimately get a 5200 until the 90s. I prefer the 5200 for all of the reasons above plus third-party support was better. However, there's no doubt the 7800 is more powerful graphically and the home brew scene has much more output.

 

As for 5200 owners being negative and attacking the 7800 here on AtariAge, well, I have to say, it's a lot less than the Atari 8-bit computer owners attacking the 5200 every chance they can get. That gets old fast for me.

 

Looking back, I wish Atari Inc would've survived. The difference in support the 7800 would've received from Warner owned-Atari with the Atari [Coin/Games] arcade division remaining together would've been so much different than the Tramiel-owned Atari Corp support we ultimately received which was completely amateur-hour in comparison.

 

EDIT: BTW, *everyone* know the awesome-to-krap game library release ratio goes to the Atari Lynx, not the 5200 or the 7800.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Lynxpro

[VectorGamer]

ColecoVision is my favorite because of the (mostly) awesome arcade translations from the golden age. I grew up with the arcades and the ColecoVision has a lot of titles ported from that era. Even though the NES is a more advanced console, I don't care for the majority of software available for that machine. The NES did well with translations from the golden age, but there are too few of them for me to prefer that console.

 

The 7800 is my second favorite console and I have to credit Bob DeCrescenzo for that with all the great translations like Scramble, Pac-Man Collection and Jr. Pac-Man to name a few. Robotron is a gem and Centipede is probably the best home version available. The sound effects can be downright horrible (Donkey Kong comes to mind) but overall the games look and play well.

 

What's disappointing to me with the 5200 is that the software library is pretty dull. There are games like Pole Position, Tempest and Sinistar that work great with the analog controllers. Then there are games like Space Invaders and Galaxian that I just can't get excited about. It would've been cool if the 5200 took a page out of the ColecoVision book by porting games that were really good but didn't have the popularity of Pac-Man or Defender.

[+darryl1970]

 

 

To be fair, plenty of ex-Atari Inc staff didn't like the 7800 from the get-go since it came from GCC and Atari Inc people were "fixing" the problems with the 5200 which wouldn't have required fixing had their managers listed to them prior to the console's release. When you listen to Jerry Jessop tell the story of how him and Tod Frye got a proposed console together that used an ANTIC and TIA working together with them and the CPU clocked at double the normal speed yet Warner wouldn't listen to them, you too can't feel disappointed in the later outcome especially since that console would play 2600 and 5200 games natively in addition to what this console would've done with its own library.

 

I like both consoles and I own both. However, the 7800 *is* a "cost reduced" console compared to the 5200 and that's evident in all of the documents that were written by GCC, Warner, and Atari Inc. There's definitely a difference in build quality with the consoles, the controllers, the cartridges, etc. When I was a kid, I wanted the 5200 but it was too expensive - I had my 2600 - until it was discontinued and then all the talk was about the 7800. I got the 7800 in 1986 and didn't ultimately get a 5200 until the 90s. I prefer the 5200 for all of the reasons above plus third-party support was better. However, there's no doubt the 7800 is more powerful graphically and the home brew scene has much more output.

 

As for 5200 owners being negative and attacking the 7800 here on AtariAge, well, I have to say, it's a lot less than the Atari 8-bit computer owners attacking the 5200 every chance they can get. That gets old fast for me.

 

Looking back, I wish Atari Inc would've survived. The difference in support the 7800 would've received from Warner owned-Atari with the Atari [Coin/Games] arcade division remaining together would've been so much different than the Tramiel-owned Atari Corp support we ultimately received which was completely amateur-hour in comparison.

Nicely put! I would love to see how that double clocked system would have worked. Not sure it would have solved the 4player/4Missile limitations. Also, colors may have been an issue. Is there a thread that discusses this and maybe shines some light into the advantages? I'd love to see that.

[Lynxpro]

Nicely put! I would love to see how that double clocked system would have worked. Not sure it would have solved the 4player/4Missile limitations. Also, colors may have been an issue. Is there a thread that discusses this and maybe shines some light into the advantages? I'd love to see that.

 

Thanks. I'm not sure there is an existing thread. No one seems to know if that hacked-together prototype still exists. There may actually be two proposed consoles because there's another claim that Tod Frye put together another system that used 4 TIAs to independently draw a corner of the screen that was supposedly fast and powerful. The point was the Atari Inc engineers were trying to show Warner they could put stuff together with existing hardware that would blow away whatever GCC was developing on their own. Unfortunately, Warner didn't trust them due to the 5200's outcome despite all of its issues being caused by Atari/Warner management who didn't listen to them in the first place. We've all heard how they didn't want the 5200 console released before the controllers were fixed, but not a lot of us know the engineers wanted the 5200 to be backwards compatible with the 2600 from the start but were overruled by an allegedly pig-headed project manager.

[+darryl1970]

ColecoVision is my favorite because of the (mostly) awesome arcade translations from the golden age. I grew up with the arcades and the ColecoVision has a lot of titles ported from that era. Even though the NES is a more advanced console, I don't care for the majority of software available for that machine. The NES did well with translations from the golden age, but there are too few of them for me to prefer that console.

 

The 7800 is my second favorite console and I have to credit Bob DeCrescenzo for that with all the great translations like Scramble, Pac-Man Collection and Jr. Pac-Man to name a few. Robotron is a gem and Centipede is probably the best home version available. The sound effects can be downright horrible (Donkey Kong comes to mind) but overall the games look and play well.

 

What's disappointing to me with the 5200 is that the software library is pretty dull. There are games like Pole Position, Tempest and Sinistar that work great with the analog controllers. Then there are games like Space Invaders and Galaxian that I just can't get excited about. It would've been cool if the 5200 took a page out of the ColecoVision book by porting games that were really good but didn't have the popularity of Pac-Man or Defender.

This is true. ColecoVision had a lot of arcade games that we hadn't seen yet. In fact, there are many I never saw in an actual arcade or store. I saw Looping, Lady Bug, Cosmic Avengers, and Mr. Do in a couple corner stores. I did see Mousetrap in a Chuck-E-Cheese knock off. That was fresh to see all of the fresh games Coleco brought to the table. I say this with love for the Colecovision: I think the system was capable of better ports. I think many of the ports were lazy. They lacked a lot of detail. Again, that is simply programming. Mario didn't spin and die, he could walk off the end of girders and live, he didn't have to face the barrels to hit them with the hammer, etc.. There were no intermissions. Mr. Do was just totally wrong. Lady Bug was missing the fly-away death animation (Very good otherwise). Then, look at the Atarisoft port of Jungle Hunt for Colecovision. It isn't lacking detail. It is about as arcade perfect as I have seen. It kicks butt over the 5200/8-bit version. It's smoother and better to look at! I can see where you favor the Coleco.

 

The 5200 did start out with a lazy library of rehashes. It was a quick conversion from 8-bit for a few. Galaxian was weak. Pac-Man could have even been better. I say what I am about to say not to convince you anything is better than another; I say this to shed some light you may not have seen before. I know there were many things I didn't appreciate from systems I wasn't biased toward (like Sega Master System or even Intellivision). If you follow the 5200 into the later years, Atari picked up its game. They started getting cool games, like Pengo, Space Dungeon, Mario Bros, Kangaroo, Jungle Hunt, etc. These games were top notch quality. Atari had better programmers at this point. If you look at Pengo, it is missing the screen clear intermissions, but it has all the animations. It's a great port. Check out Mario Bros. This version was the BEST home version until the newer XE release. It has all of the death animations, the ShellCreepers (turtles) get out of their shells to kick them over, Mario and Luigi squish each other, Fire and Ice deaths are included, etc. It has details Nintendo left out in its NES version. In both of the aforementioned games, all of the sprites are multicolored, which was pretty killer for the time. Space Dungeon (as well as Robotron) had special controller holders that complimented the flawless gameplay. They were pretty cool games.

 

Not to argue the point, but seriously PLAY the 5200 Centipede, the arcade Centipede, and the 7800 Centipede side by side. Of course the sound is arcade perfect on the 5200, since they use the same sound chip. However, the 5200 doesn't have that annoying box around the playfield. The game plays at a more frantic pace. This is a game that totally takes advantage of the analog sticks. The farther you pull, the faster the guy moves. Of course the trakball is the ultimate way to play; I am just saying. I think you might reconsider your opinion. <edit>ALTHOUGH the 7800 does have a little better collision detection on the shots, and the Centipede itself is very smooth!</edit> The only thing closer is MAME and a trakball! (Co-op is cool on 7800) Again, I am not bashing or disputing, I am just saying there are gems in every system that are not necessarily realized because of previous biases. The 5200 and Coleco both have their shortcomings, but in the end, I think they balance out about even, even though we will ultimately hold one more dearer to our hearts for nostalgic purposes. While I agree the 5200 library was lackluster at first, they really started to pick it up (too little, too late), and they came out swinging with the detail they were including. I think that's why some people are bitter about the 5200 being canned when it was just picking up momentum. Additionally, releasing the 2600 versions concurrently watered down the 5200. It was bad marketing by Atari.

 

As for the 7800, I think some of the first 9 release games feel a little rushed, but they are good. <edit>I do not want to take away from Joust, which was a big improvement over the "hatching" eggs. The colors were excellent. Food Fight was cool too! Xevious was great, until I saw the NES version. Galaga was horrible. It was kind of embarrassing, especially next to the NES version.</edit> They are lacking some detail, but they're pretty decent. (And there was buried goodness we didn't get to see, due to the lack of the high score cart release!) However, later games like Mario Bros, Donkey Kong, and Donkey Kong Jr. are horrific. I do not blame the 7800. I blame Tramiel and the lack of Atari's funds, staff, etc. We all know the TIA isn't as good as Pokey, but it can still do A LOT BETTER than what the programmers did with these games! I am thankful for homebrew, because it has helped to combat some of my initial disappointments in the 7800. I agree with LynxPro that it is built as a budget machine, but it's a very powerful one.

Edited June 3, 2015 by darryl1970

[VectorGamer]

Galaga was horrible. It was kind of embarrassing, especially next to the NES version.

 

The biggest complaint I have with Galaga on the 7800 is how slow it is. However, on the NES and the ColecoVision version of Galaga I can feel the smaller playfield when compared to the arcade game where there is greater distance between your ship and the formation of Galagas. For some reason I don't feel the small playfield in the 7800 version.

[+darryl1970]

 

The biggest complaint I have with Galaga on the 7800 is how slow it is. However, on the NES and the ColecoVision version of Galaga I can feel the smaller playfield when compared to the arcade game where there is greater distance between your ship and the formation of Galagas. For some reason I don't feel the small playfield in the 7800 version.

I never noticed it when I played the NES version, but I see what you're saying. The aliens on the arcade machine seem SO MUCH farther away.. It makes a difference. However, I was so taken by the arcade closeness, I was amazed. I know the aliens move a little blocky when in the group, I don't care. It was so close to the arcade for the time.

 

7800 Galaga isn't slow if you set it to hard. I think it jumps to level 9 or something. I don't like that though. It looks as if the patterns are not smooth, as if the aliens skip frames, and the path isn't smooth, but more playable at that level.

 

Not one of my personal favorite games anyway, but I know it is the one many non-gamers remember playing. LOL. So many people say they liked that game where the aliens came down and captured the ship.