thallium196 Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Dose any one know how the jaguar's specs compaire to neo geo's 24 bit machine? please give as much details as ya can thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagAttack Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Neo-Geo CPU type: 16-bit+8-bit CPU speed: 12 Mhz and 4Mhz RAM memory: 8 Kbyte Video RAM: 8.5 Kbyte Picture resolution: 320x224 pixels Colors Available: 65,536 colors Max colors at once: 4,096 colors Max sprite size: 16x512 pixels Max sprites: 380 sprites Min/Max Cart Size: 2.75 / 85.38Mbyte Sound channels: 15 Jaguar USA Release: 1993 CPU type: 64-bit CPU speed: 26.6Mhz RAM memory: 2 Mbytes MIPS 26.591 Video RAM: 64 Kbytes Max resolution: 768x576 Colors Available: 24-bit Max colors at once: 16.8 million Rendering Speed 850 pixels/second Polygons per second 10,000 Min/Max Cart Size: 250Kbyte/84Mbyte compressed Sound channels: 16-bit stereo sound So basically the Jag can do everything the Neo-Geo can do and more. But Neo-Geo had direct ports of Arcade games which is awesome. I have a Neo-Geo MVS system and it is just too cool. The carts are almost the size of a video tape. If you are actually deciding on buying a Neo-Geo, go with an MVS. Games cost $40 vs $100 for the home carts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punisher5.0 Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Polygons per second 10,000 Min/Max Cart Size: 250Kbyte/84Mbyte compressed The Jaguar can draw much more poly's then that. The Jaguar cartridges are also much bigger than that. BattleSphere for example uses a 4MB cartridge. Even the cheap Cybermorph has four times the amount of memory in your spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagAttack Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 I just cut and pasted what I had on my webpage. But 4mb is less then 84mb. From what I remember a cart can be a max size of 6mb but with compressing you could possibly get 84mb of data stored on the 6mb cart. Though its unlikely you could actually do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punisher5.0 Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Here is revised spec sheet: NEO-GEO Motorola 68000: 12 Mhz, 16-bit Zilog-80A: 4 Mhz, 8-bit Main RAM:64Kb Video RAM: 68Kb Z80 RAM: 2Kb Total: 134 Kb Max Polygon's a second (real world performance) : No hardware support but can probably draw some. Jaguar Tom: 26.591 MHz Jerry: 26.6 MHz 68000: 13.295 MHz Object processor: 64 bit Blitter: 64 bit RAM: 2MB Max cartridge size: 6MB (I don't think any games were this big) Max Polygon's a second (real world performance) : No one really knows for sure. Fight for Life used 30 to 40 thousand poly's a second. As you can tell there really is no contest. But the NEO-GEO wasn't made to compete with the Jaguar. It was made to port 2D arcade games over to a home console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.skid Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 As you can tell there really is no contest. But the NEO-GEO wasn't made to compete with the Jaguar. It was made to port 2D arcade games over to a home console. You are right, there is no contest. Jaguar is the best, indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaguarandine Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 The Jaguar's specs may look better on paper, but we still have yet to see a 2D Jag game that looks as good as one on the Neo or that can manipulate as many sprites on screen simultaneously, with little slowdown. If I recall correctly, even Saturn and PSX had a little difficulty porting Neo games at least animation-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punisher5.0 Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 The Jaguar's specs may look better on paper, but we have yet to see a 2D Jag game that looks as good as one on the Neo or that can manipulate as many sprites on screen simultaneously with little slowdown. If I recall correctly, even Saturn and PSX had a little difficulty porting Neo games at least animation-wise. Have you played Native? Or Raiden when it gets insane? The Saturn was an excellent 2D system and should easily be able to pull off anything the NEO-GEO could. PlayStation is an entirely different story though. Supposedly, PlayStation wasn't very good at doing 2D games. And suffered from very long load times. I'm sure CPUWIZ can and will shine some light on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 The Jaguar's specs may look better on paper, but we still have yet to see a 2D Jag game that looks as good as one on the Neo or that can manipulate as many sprites on screen simultaneously, with little slowdown. If I recall correctly, even Saturn and PSX had a little difficulty porting Neo games at least animation-wise. The Jag was way better at sprites than the NG. Look at games like Rayman or Defender 2000 for examples of sprite power. Loads of huge sprites and a lot more colors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysmith2000 Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 The Jaguar's specs may look better on paper, but we still have yet to see a 2D Jag game that looks as good as one on the Neo or that can manipulate as many sprites on screen simultaneously, with little slowdown. If I recall correctly, even Saturn and PSX had a little difficulty porting Neo games at least animation-wise. Huh? Rayman comes to mind.....(along with a few other titles). I love the Neo Geo, it was a great system. KOF is still one of my favorite fighting games, however comparing it to the Jaguar is unrealistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid_sky Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 NEOCD vs JAGCD? NEOGEO CORE SYSTEM Processor: Motorola 68000 (12 Mhz, 16-bit), Zilog-80A (4 Mhz, 8-bit) Resolution: 320x224 Color Palette: 65,536 Maximum Colors On-Screen: 4,096 Maximum Sprites On-Screen: 380 Minimum Sprite Size: 1x2 Maximum Sprite Size: 16x512 Maximum Amount of Game Planes: 3 Sound Channels: 4-FM synthesis, 7-Digital, 3-PSG, 1-Noise channel Internal RAM: Work RAM: 64Kb Video RAM: 68Kb Z80 RAM: 2Kb NEOGEO CD All of the above, including a single-speed CD-ROM drive (2X with NEOGEO CDZ AFAIK), 64Kb of Static RAM, 512Kb Video RAM, and 56 Megabits of Dynamic RAM. I want to know the JAGCD specs, all i could find was The CD-ROM drive features a modified data bus interface for access to the Tom and Jerry chips almost directly, allowing for a higher throughput rate on sound and graphics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisbid Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 kindof an unfair comparison, the neo geo was and still is a very classy system. The size of the carts, the feel of the joysticks, and the price of carts really set it apart from nearly every other system ever released. It was ahead of its time, and not aimed at mainstream gamers. The closest thing to compare it to would be the vectrex (arcade quality graphics, unmatched for its time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagMX Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 i found "some" specs from the pre-release from a mag: Double-Speed Drive 350k Transfer per second 750 Megabyte Capacity Resolution 160 x 120 @ 50 Frames per second 320 x 160 @ 24 Frames per second keyword was "some" specs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 The Neo Geo also had the benefit of being officially supported for a MUCh longer period of time than the Jaguar. It's amazing what those programmers were able to pull out of that architecture for over a decade, but it still doesn't compare to the raw power of the Jag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatdan Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Jaguar Max cartridge size: 6MB (I don't think any games were this big) No games were that big. It would've been possible to program a switch to move between memory banks too, making game size pretty much unlimited. The largest games released on cartridge were 4MB. Max Polygon's a second (real world performance) : No one really knows for sure. Fight for Life used 30 to 40 thousand poly's a second. I don't have it in front of me, but FFL didn't push nearly that many polys around. I believe there were approximately 3000 per character, and the background was what... two? Battlemorph and IS2 used more polygons than FFL did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 I think it's a stretch saying that the character models had 3,000 polys to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punisher5.0 Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 I don't have it in front of me, but FFL didn't push nearly that many polys around. I believe there were approximately 3000 per character, and the background was what... two? Battlemorph and IS2 used more polygons than FFL did. Well, according to Ian Francios each character was made up of around 800 polygons a second. He also stated that FFL is drawing 1,000 visible poly's a frame at 20 frames per second. So FFL could easily be pushing 30,000 poly's a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Well, it all comes down to the games. The Neo Geo Spanks the Jaguar, but that is expected. ALL of its games ARE arcade game titles. the MVS wasn't designed to play arcade ports, it IS the same hardware as the arcade system. Arcade games recieve much more rigourous play-testing, and usually more rigorous development, and it shows. There is NOTHING on the jaguar even REMOTELY close to games like the Shock Trooper series, Metal Slug series, Pulstar/Blazing Star series, etc. Not to mention the fighters (though im not a big fighter fan,) and puzzle games (puzzle bobble, magical drop, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 I don't have it in front of me, but FFL didn't push nearly that many polys around. I believe there were approximately 3000 per character, and the background was what... two? Battlemorph and IS2 used more polygons than FFL did. 3000 polygons * 2 characters = 6000 polygons.... At an outrageously slow 10 frames per second, that's 60,000 polys per second. At 20FPS, that's 120,000 polys per second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 i found "some" specs from the pre-release from a mag: Double-Speed Drive 350k Transfer per second 750 Megabyte Capacity Resolution 160 x 120 @ 50 Frames per second 320 x 160 @ 24 Frames per second keyword was "some" specs Actually' date=' the Jagcd's transfer rate per second is 352.8k and the storage capicity is 790 Megabytes. 320x224 @ 24 frames per second, with audio. your source wasn't quite right. Also access time of 210 milliseconds. As for the Jaguar's sprite and sound capabilities, they are: 16-bit stereo, number of sound channels limited only by software, two DACS (stereo) convert digital data to analog sound signals Wave table, FM, FM sample, AM synthesis. Sprites: "unlimited" size and quantity, realistically; sprites can be over 1,000x1,000 pixels (basically EVERYTHING is done in sprites or sprite "windows" including polygons), limited only by processor cycles of the object processor (64-bit, 26.592 MIPS [million instructions per second']@26.591 mhz). They ONLY thing the NeoGeo had over the Jaguar is the size of the cartridge memory. Which means nothing with a Jagcd...technically, since the 790megabytes of the cd, if used, is about 9 times (roughly) as much as a NeoGeo cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wberdan Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 id just like to say that even though the jag may be capable of storing 16 bit sound captures that doesnt take into account how many samples per second that 16 bit sound is... and i believe in most jag games it is a VERY low sampling rate (prob 11k at the most) which may equal that of the neo geo, but is easily surpassed by the sega cd. willie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punisher5.0 Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 id just like to say that even though the jag may be capable of storing 16 bit sound captures that doesnt take into account how many samples per second that 16 bit sound is... and i believe in most jag games it is a VERY low sampling rate (prob 11k at the most) which may equal that of the neo geo, but is easily surpassed by the sega cd. willie Have you ever played any games that have high quality music on the Jaugar? Tempest 2000, Atari Karts, and Blue Lightning are a few that come to mind that have excellent sound quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcat Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Hi ! i found "some" specs from the pre-release from a mag: Double-Speed Drive 350k Transfer per second 750 Megabyte Capacity Resolution 160 x 120 @ 50 Frames per second 320 x 160 @ 24 Frames per second keyword was "some" specs Actually' date=' the Jagcd's transfer rate per second is 352.8k and the storage capicity is 790 Megabytes. 320x224 @ 24 frames per second, with audio. your source wasn't quite right. [/quote'] Actually they are almost right I remember reading in the dev manual that the disc can store up to 746.9 Mega Bytes however the maximum transfer rate is 352.8k. As for the Jaguar's sprite and sound capabilities' date=' they are: 16-bit stereo, number of sound channels limited only by software, two DACS (stereo) convert digital data to analog sound signals Wave table, FM, FM sample, AM synthesis. Sprites: "unlimited" size and quantity, realistically; sprites can be over 1,000x1,000 pixels (basically EVERYTHING is done in sprites or sprite "windows" including polygons), limited only by processor cycles of the object processor (64-bit, 26.592 MIPS [million instructions per second']@26.591 mhz). They ONLY thing the NeoGeo had over the Jaguar is the size of the cartridge memory. Which means nothing with a Jagcd...technically, since the 790megabytes of the cd, if used, is about 9 times (roughly) as much as a NeoGeo cart. I often took active part in these system discussions and I think I'll stay away from that in the future and now, because it all ends with flaimg as there are always people who "know" things and people who "believe" things and people who don't want to hear certain things. So this will be my only post in this thread. One hint: Do NOT take the infos in the FAQ too serious, if you really want to know what the Jag can do read the development manual carefully. One thing that is for sure, I think the Neo Geo is one of the greatest systems of all time, with many incredible games and if it all wasn't so expensive I would get one immediateley... But the emulator is ok to play the games as well, even if the feeling isn't the same. Btw, You're always talking about the neo geo specs, don't for get that it also has some really incredible video and sound hardware (for its time). That is something that is only listed on very few spec lists. Think about it, the Genenis also uses a 68k and z80... are genesis games and neo geo games on the same level ? No, there are worlds between them. So the graphic hardware is the key. Regards, Lars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 id just like to say that even though the jag may be capable of storing 16 bit sound captures that doesnt take into account how many samples per second that 16 bit sound is... and i believe in most jag games it is a VERY low sampling rate (prob 11k at the most) which may equal that of the neo geo, but is easily surpassed by the sega cd. willie I've coded Jaguar games that have 44K sample audio... So that information is not true. Perhaps the games you played had poor sample quality, which is a bigger factor than sample rate in terms of final output quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayreon Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Personally i can't recall any Jag games with poor audio quality. Maybe the more or less direct Amiga ports like pinball fantasies use 8bit 11 khz samples cos thats what i believe was the amiga standard sound quality. Wich could be around the same for Neo Geo. Can't find any specs that mention the specs for sampled audio. The sega cd : Source: Sega CD1 Users Manual (Part#: 672-0955), Sega Online Model Number: MK-1690 (r1), MK-4102 (r2) CPU: Motorola 68000 @ 12.5MHz Memory: 6Mbit (Program, picture data, sound data) 512Kbit (PCM waveform memory) 128Kbit (CD-ROM data cache memory) 64Kbit (Backup memory) 1Mbit (Boot ROM) Sound: PCM Sound Source: Stereo, 8 Channels. Sampliing wavelength: 32MHz max. D/A Convertor: 16-bit D/A convertor 8x Internal over-sampling digital filter PCM and CD sound mixing. Mixing with mixing terminal possible Audio Characteristics: Wavelength characteristics: 20Hz-20kHz. Signal/Noise Ratio: Over 90dB (1kHz) (Line Out). Stereo channel separation: Over 90dB. The specs for audio are weird.. 32Mhz?? right, i got no idea what they mean with wavelength in this case it sure isn't the samplerate. Anyhow i don't think the sega cd's sampled sound capabilities are better than the Jags. 16 bit's, 44.1Khz is Cd quality so if the sega cd is capable of doing that, it's on par with the Jag. Although i think the Jag can go to 50Khz just like the STE and Falcon030 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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