Bill Loguidice Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Not trying to beat a dead horse, but the 'Big League Baseball' (1 player) is not simply adding a second player capability to the original, it is different. It plays different. It has scrolling and reacts different. The people like my friend who want to play the original are not 'purists'.....he ONLY wants to play Baseball, and the one he remembers. I don't know how 'typical' he is, but he isn't the type to collect Intellivisions, and there aren't a lot of other games he fondly remembers. And, all the military people who also played Intellivision baseball with him don't have any Intellivisions. None of them have Intellivisions but were excited that they could play baseball again when I sent the link. Now it is going to be 'never mind'. If it's a purchase decision over one single game out of 60 or 61, then there's little that can be done. If it's that important to them, simply get the Dollar General version. Problem solved. If it's really so incredibly important to play the one game, you could probably get the real thing with the one game for about the same price. Again, anecdotes aside, I just don't think we're talking a large audience here who will ultimately care and/or know the difference. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Does the Flashback also going to have The Ecs titles too. Are a few of them. Thanks T No, only regular Intellivision and Intellivoice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Does the Flashback also going to have The Ecs titles too. Are a few of them. Thanks T They're licensed titles for the most part, too. Hanna-Barbara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 They're licensed titles for the most part, too. Hanna-Barbara. Hanna Barbara cartoons were so cheezy/awesome! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeM_Intellivision Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I have to 100% agree with William here - to not have the original baseball on the flashback is a big oversight in my opinion. Feel bad for casual people who will not have this gem included on their's. WC Baseball is a completely different game in several regards and not as good in the opinion of many. Probably too late to fix for this go around, but should definitely be included on all models if there is a 2nd go around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeM_Intellivision Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I apologize because I'm going to beat that same horse one last time:-) Baseball was THE 1st game programmed for the Intellivision and THE game Intellivision used to go head to head with Atari! Really shocked - this is NOT a bonus game but an essential game. I think someone dropped ball on that one and hopefully people know about the DG version so they can get the one with the "extra" baseball game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Based on what was stated above, this was an Intellivision Productions decision. I still argue this is preferable to a genuinely unique game like the bonus game on the ColecoVision Flashback, because you still get a baseball game if you're "stuck" with buying the version with one less game. Arguably inferior or not, a baseball game you can optionally play by yourself is better for the average consumer than one you can't. It's a shame we have to have a variation at all (that's business for you), but it sounds like this wouldn't have made it on there at all otherwise, so for the handful of people where this is a deal breaker, at least they can track down a version with it on it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeM_Intellivision Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Agreed Bill - please understand I'm not giving you a hard time just don't get the decision at all. At least there will be a version with it on there and perhaps they can promote it. Thanks for your efforts. Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Agreed Bill - please understand I'm not giving you a hard time just don't get the decision at all. At least there will be a version with it on there and perhaps they can promote it. Thanks for your efforts. Joe. And I'm not giving you guys a hard time either, more playing devil's advocate (I'm personally on the side of more, more, more, and authenticity first, etc.). Even though such decisions are out of all of our hands, it's important to try and look at it from the target audience standpoint for an inexpensive mass market device and what is and isn't important or significant in terms of shifting sales momentum one way or the other. With that said, I'm sure both AtGames and Intellivision Productions will take feedback once this is actually released and almost certainly make adjustments accordingly going forward as needed/possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Games For Your Intellivision Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 If the target audience is people who fondly remember the Intellivision games and want to play them again, then the original baseball is a big deal. Perhaps Bill is correct and people won't notice or care, but I don't think so. If they are actually in the minority, well, I guess I am complaining for nothing, but will definitely 'un-recommend' the purchase to my friend now. Him and half a dozen guys wanted to play original 2 player baseball. No other game. It might SOUND unreasonable focusing on 1 of 60 games, but Baseball was a huge seller, and giving them a similar game isn't going to cut it, even if it has 1 person mode, in my opinion. I've said all I am going to. I know I will buy the one with 2 player baseball if possible, but will still get the thing. Then again, I have multiple units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I won't continue to beat the "issue" to death either, but again, let's remember the target audience here. It's the average consumer who remembers what an Intellivision is, likely played one back in the day, but is not presently active with the platform or community. This means they probably don't own one, they probably don't bother with or know about the emulators, etc. They see Intellivision on the shelf with a range of sports and action games - maybe a few names they have a vague recollection of - and they're willing to plunk down the $40 - $60 to check it out and/or rekindle some vague childhood memories. I can't see any scenario in this situation where a slightly different version of baseball - one that adds a single player mode - will be a disappointment. If, like your friends, they remember 100% what that game was like and want to experience 100% that specific game, they can go to the extra effort of getting the Dollar General version if somehow the newer version of the game is an unacceptable "substitute." In that regard, I have no issue with the company's decision, particularly since no one who buys any version of the Intellivision Flashback misses out on an Intellivision baseball game. Contrast that with the ColecoVision Flashback that has a top quality game with no other equivalent in the list of 60 games on all versions. That to me is a far bigger disappointment. To put it in perspective, though, even in that case, it's just one game out of 60 others, and the first properly implemented (controller-wise) devices of these types. It would be nice if a potential buyer bought these to enjoy much more than just one game, otherwise that's a lot of baggage for one single vintage game to overcome. The good news is that if there is an Intellivision Flashback 2, the game mix or feature list should be different, so hopefully any disappointments this go round will be solved (and no doubt new dissapointments introduced). What's funny is that with these things you'd be amazed at the range of "if it doesn't have game x (my favorite game or the one game I have only good memories of), I'm not buying it/it's a fail, etc." I even still get comments about the Flashback 4 not having Pac-Man of all things (which, as we know, is not the 2600's shining moment), and as such, not being something they want to purchase. I'm sure the missing Tron games will have that effect for some people on the Intellivision Flashback, along with a few other games. There's just no winning in those scenarios. The only way to "win" is by targeting what will make the most people happy, and that's simply making the best core product you can and getting as many games as possible on there that you can that people might remember. Of course, having artificial special editions is not cool, but it is probably good business, if not necessarily good for consumers. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I think that's a reasonable approach, Bill. If only these things could be re-flashed or otherwise upgraded without the need to market a whole new revision of the toy. These ROM files are about 12K in size, after all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Personally, I'm boycotting the product because it's missing Bill comparing the Atari Flashback to this one and letting us decide which is obviously superior 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I'm getting one Intellivision and one ColecoVision Flashback as soon as they come out. I'm very excited over this product. As someone who joined the community originally as one of those in the target audience described, I understand the trade-offs, and don't think it's really significant. Obviously, I would prefer a single unit with an exhaustive library, but such is life. dZ. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I think that's a reasonable approach, Bill. If only these things could be re-flashed or otherwise upgraded without the need to market a whole new revision of the toy. These ROM files are about 12K in size, after all. I don't disagree, but it's probably not a viable business model (as we all know). I guess one way it could work is that you release a Flashback with a locked down SD card slot (see how long that stays locked down, of course) and have it come with an SD card with say, 10 games to start. Then you sell game packs on additional SD cards that have 5 - 10 games each. It would be a modern version of cartridges. The catch with something like that is that it seems retailers don't necessarily want to dedicate shelf space for these things outside of the holidays and there's no guarantee that the target audience will ever buy more games. Certainly it became a high priority with the Neo Geo X for the more talented hackers in the community to circumvent the protection and avoid having to buy more official game packs (and those game packs were released, albeit, who knows how many were actually bought). [and I understand the Neo Geo X was poorly implemented all the way around] The other option is just to have the built-in games and allow for an SD card slot that's not locked down. The catch is, if that's done well enough, there's potentially no incentive for a significant portion of people to buy a new version of the product. That's a tough place for a product that might only really sell in quantity for a few months a year because of the way retailers make them available. In any case, flaws or no, I genuinely hope both the Intellivision and ColecoVision Flashbacks are a hit. I'm personally a bit tired of seeing an endless stream of Atari 2600 and Sega Genesis products. We have a rich history beyond what we've seen time and again that should be better mined by these companies. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeM_Intellivision Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Thanks again Bill. Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 What I want to know is: Why does the colecovision flashback have a bunch of licensed games and intv does not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 What I want to know is: Why does the colecovision flashback have a bunch of licensed games and intv does not! That's a fantastic question and I was wondering that myself. I can only think that it was not necessary for this first iteration of the Intellivision Flashback since the first party library is so strong. The ColecoVision doesn't have a similarly available first party library, so that needed to be supplemented with third party stuff and homebrews. It's probably as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) On the Colecovision almost everything was licensed! Given that so many of the games were the lesser known arcade ports, I figure their license rate is not going to be what say NAMCO would charge. But the point is the AtGames has no choice but to license the games. To me the biggest shame is that the Parker Bros. (arcade not TV/movie ports), Activision, and Imagic titles have been nearly totally off limits on all the Flashback products. Edited June 23, 2014 by Greg2600 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 The ColecoVision Flashback has a good mix of Imagic stuff at least, but I wonder if that had to do with the Telegames licensing. I don't know if anything changed on the Atari Flashback side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Maybe the intv and CV flashbacks will sell enough units to make a second version possible with even more games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvsteve Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I'll catch up on the long posts later, but in case nobody else has picked this nit yet... Big League Baseball == Major League Baseball. World Championship Baseball added one player, sliding, etc.. Generally, I think some who can even remember that the original games were two-player only may be more likely to balk if they assume that only that version is available. Some might realize that the game is different, and assume it was tweaked for the product. In any case, I dearly hope that this product turns out to be both faithful to the original insofar as accuracy of emulation, and a huge success. Or at least exceeds the market expectations for sales. Intellivision deserves another day in the sun. But then... preacher, meet choir. Edited June 24, 2014 by intvsteve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 The ColecoVision Flashback has a good mix of Imagic stuff at least, but I wonder if that had to do with the Telegames licensing. I don't know if anything changed on the Atari Flashback side. Wow, no kidding! Maybe it was cheaper to license some of those, or they had no choice to make up the game count? Atari has so many 1st party games for 2600/VCS that they probably opt not to bother with licensing. As you said, Intellivision only did 1st party though that could be an INTV Prods. choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeM_Intellivision Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Rev, I second that and think sales will be good enough to warrant 2nd editions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvsteve Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I think that's a reasonable approach, Bill. If only these things could be re-flashed or otherwise upgraded without the need to market a whole new revision of the toy. These ROM files are about 12K in size, after all. But of course such capability means you instantly cannibalize most future sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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