H.E.R.O. Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 That question always gets asked about Atari. I don't think I've ever seen it from a Coleco perspective. If there was no crash, would Coleco ever have become #1 in hardware? Would there have been a Colecovision II? Would Nintendo have gone to Coleco with the offer to sell the NES in North America instead of Atari (who as we know turned it down)? Would the Adam debacle itself have been enough to make Coleco retreat back into children's toys (which stayed off bankruptcy for a short while) or would they have ridden it out? Hell, would they have gone full on into computers to compete with the Commodore and Atari and Apple? Colecovision is my favorite console of all time so sometimes I wonder where things could have gone. If there was only the Adam debacle, I think they would have survived but stayed with consoles. Anyone else have opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 My "What if": - Adam still fails because of Atari & Commodore computers but since there are still lots of profits being made on video games and no careless companies exist, work on a CV II begins. - Colecovision II is announced instead, releases sometime in 87' to compete with Nintendo. Get rid of the knob and now it's a gamepad. - Colecovision II stomps Nintendo's unit in the States and Europe (Xbox?) with better graphics and sounds and with a lower budget pack in title called Tetris from some Russian guy. - Coleco Licenses computer ports and more arcade games. - Coleco harkens back to the coleco handhelds of the 70's and releases it's first handheld unit in 89' which is in color but consumes batteries like crazy. What else can we change or add? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 There never is an Xbox because the console market already consists of Sony, Sega, Nintendo and Coleco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Crash or no crash, I don't think it would have made much of a difference. Coleco's troubles (and the bad management decisions behind them) would have made the company implode and go bankrupt anyway, even if Atari and the rest of the 80's video game industry had thrived onward. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Still dead. It sounded like money management problems killed them to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 My "What if": - Adam still fails because of Atari & Commodore computers but since there are still lots of profits being made on video games and no careless companies exist, work on a CV II begins. - Colecovision II is announced instead, releases sometime in 87' to compete with Nintendo. Get rid of the knob and now it's a gamepad. - Colecovision II stomps Nintendo's unit in the States and Europe (Xbox?) with better graphics and sounds and with a lower budget pack in title called Tetris from some Russian guy. - Coleco Licenses computer ports and more arcade games. - Coleco harkens back to the coleco handhelds of the 70's and releases it's first handheld unit in 89' which is in color but consumes batteries like crazy. What else can we change or add? *IF* Coleco had survived longer... I don't think the ADAM could have survived with the design they chose. I've already posted my thoughts on that in other threads. An updated console would have had to be introduced or Nintendo would eat them alive. But even with a new console, I still think Nintendo would eat them alive and Coleco would have focused on other toys. I think those were more profitable anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 You could really make up any scenario you want: - Coleco fixed the ADAM and it was a success - Coleco releases Super ColecoVision - Coleco releases ColecoVision 64 - Coleco releases ColecoCube - Coleco releases ColecoBox Sony and Microsoft never enter the console gaming market. Sega and Atari are still players and releasing consoles. Arcades are everywhere... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I was being a fan boy in my post and having some wishful thinking fun. My honest opinion would be that Coleco would still not survive, they were so into toys and that Adam that it would have been hopeless especially with Nintendo and Sega around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 What I saw is a focus on Arcade games. Had they lived longer and gone into more original titles (expecially RPGs) I wouldn't have bought a Sega Master System. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Where would Coleco be if the crash didn't happen? Crash did not killed Coleco, The CEO took care of that Coleco simply leaved the video game market So to answer your question...... They would be exactly where they are now, wich is bankruptcy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 The question should be more like: What if Coleco did not shut their R&D and Electronics Division? And, Why did Coleco shut down their Electronics Division afterall? Actually, truth is Coleco lost a bunch of money with their ADAM, Liscencing and CED player development during 82 to 84 Not counting the "useless" SuperGame Module development wich coleco drained alot of cash The crash pretty much sealed the "deal" and this exactly when Coleco decided to shut down their Electronics Division Coleco was mainly a Toy company (in the 80's) afterall, so was Mattel Coleco was the kind of company who was always moving with new toys, Arnold Greenberg once said (in late 83) Colecovision has been successfull, we now moving to another new toy Bromley and his team has been pissed off when coleco shut down the Electronics Division Well... more in the book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Well... more in the book Book what book?! (hoping..) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Book what book?! (hoping..) This one http://atariage.com/forums/topic/217482-coleco-industries-the-rise-fall-history-book/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 This one http://atariage.com/forums/topic/217482-coleco-industries-the-rise-fall-history-book/ Yesss! Thanks...subscribed! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) What if Coleco decided to released their SuperGame Module instead of the ADAM ? Because, we know they turned the SuperGame Module project into the ADAM Edited October 17, 2013 by retroillucid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 What if Coleco decided to released their SuperGame Module instead of the ADAM ? Because, we know they turned the SuperGame Module project into the ADAM Wasn't the SuperGame Module just a RAM expansion at first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Wasn't the SuperGame Module just a RAM expansion at first? It was mostly a waffer drive first and foremost, but it offered extra RAM too. I think Coleco should have use DDPs (like those used on the ADAM) instead of waffer carts, and kept the Super Game Module the same otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 How about Coleco figuring that ADAM was too expensive and technically a dead end, and instead invest in the Lorraine project, outpaying Commodore, Atari, Sony, HP and whoever else have been rumoured to have been interested? I kind of think that a 16-bit Coleco Amiga console and/or computer would have been more gaming oriented right away than how Commodore treated it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 How about Coleco figuring that ADAM was too expensive and technically a dead end, and instead invest in the Lorraine project, outpaying Commodore, Atari, Sony, HP and whoever else have been rumoured to have been interested? I kind of think that a 16-bit Coleco Amiga console and/or computer would have been more gaming oriented right away than how Commodore treated it. I don't think Coleco management had the market awareness with computers or the financing to pull it off. Interesting thought though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 According to early Lorraine prototype drawings, it started off as a cartridge based console though. I think it was Commodore who redid it as a computer. According to the story, the Amiga group were in dire need of financing, and Atari had lowballed them a really lousy bid on the shares when Commodore surprisingly put in a much better bid. The story has been told many times in slightly varying order of actions, and in the "what if" world, I suppose just about anyone could have aquired the company and the project. Of course as many people in this thread already pointed out that the Coleco management were very good at killing the company, video game crash or not, perhaps they would not have had the money to put in a bid at all. On the other hand, it means the original question should be rephrased where would Coleco be if they A) got a very wealthy investor, B) had sold a lot more products with good profits or at least C) had a razor blade sharp management so they in 1984 and later on could have invested some in developing or acquiring new products. I saw that CBS were not financially well either at that time, after a failed attempt for Ted Turner to take control over CBS. Not that I know if CBS would have any money to sink into Coleco anyhow, they might've needed it all for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) Let me ask this question, "How much of an affect do you really think the videogame crash had on Coleco and the ColecoVision?". I personally don't think that it had as much of an affect on Coleco as some might think, especially since by late summer of '83, Coleco was already transitioning all their production lines to handle the manufacturing of the ADAM Computer... which meant that new CV units were not being manufactured at this time and on into '84. Of course, they were still developing and releasing new cartridge games for the CV, but theoretically, they had transitioned into being a home computer manufacturer with the side benefit that this computer could also play a large installed library of CV games. So as we all know, the ADAM Computer debacle is what really took Coleco out of the electronics (videogames and computers) equation and not the "Crash" plus even if the ADAM had been a success, Coleco was living on borrowed time with all this "older" tech that the CV and ADAM was based on and would have had to quickly develop a more advanced system to compete with the 16-bitters that were on the horizon. This is not to say that a successful ADAM Computer couldn't have been a viable system for years to come (hell, it's still viable to me 30 years later), but rather that things were progressing so fast back then that you had to stay a couple steps ahead of your competition. The whole Lorraine/Amiga discussion that Carlsson brought up would definetly have been the route for Coleco to proceed in the computer market, but again, only if previously the ADAM had been a success and if management listened to the right people who were already working for them and that were responsible for increasing the stock values some $30 with the gem of a videogaming system called the ColecoVision. Another question... "What if Nuvatek hadn't redesigned the CV prototype that was brought to them and therefore there was not an Expansion Bus which offered the possibility for expansion into a computer?" Edited October 17, 2013 by NIAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I don't think Coleco had the money to out bid Commodore for the Amiga so that would probably be a dead end no matter what.I think anyone that didn't have a 16 bit machine by 1987 was pretty much dead in the water computer wise.Even if the ADAM blunder had been averted, Coleco would have to design and build another system within a couple years to stay in that market.Coleco would also have to compete with Nintendo if they stayed in the games market.While I think a ColecoVision with an expansion would certainly have some sort of market share, it would steadily drop without a more advanced system.As a low end machine, an 8 bit like the ADAM faced machines like the C64, Atari 8 bit, Apple II, Tandy Color Computer 3 and Sinclair Spectrum.Those were the machines that stayed with the 8 bit market to the end and all cost a fraction of what the ADAM did to manufacture.If Coleco tries to jump into the 16 bit market with a new machine, their machine would probably be last.Apple spent years on the Mac OS, Amiga spent years on it's OS, Atari was able to shorten it's development cycle by licensing GEM... so where would that leave Coleco?Tandy created a simple desktop DOS shell to compete so I suppose Coleco could do something similar but I don't see them releasing anything truly competitive on their own. Frankly, I think Coleco was pretty much done in the videogame and computer sectors. The only other option I can think of to keep them in the market would be if they could have purchased Acorn computers. That would put them back in the market and Coleco could start producing a US version as well as continue production in Europe.To be honest, I think the purchase would have to take place before Acorn was ready to sell though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Keep in mind there was a huge slowdown in the pc market starting late 84, where as you have 150+ different PC makers in the US alone in 84, there was ~40 left in 85 http://archive.org/details/Slowdown1985 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Btw, I see now that the first Lorraine proto was demo:ed to selected customers at Winter CES 1984, and the hunt for funds took place in June, when Tramiel's Atari lent them $1M to be paid back within one month. As the loan was not cleared, Atari offered them $0.98 per share while Commodore offered $4.25 plus $1M to pay back the loan. According to RJ Mical, Commodore initially invested $27M into Amiga; I don't understand if that equals what they paid for the shares or were outstanding investments, but clearly the mother company would need to have some money to spend. Funny that you mention the PC market, would that have been a viable option for Coleco to produce IBM PC clones, perhaps with some convoluted design to play ColecoVision game cartridges as well? I'm thinking about how the PCjr and later Tandy's various 1000 models were a little more game oriented than a standard IBM PC. I'm also thinking of the much later Teradrive and Amstrad MegaPC designs. I recognize that the TMS VDP itself is not CGA compatible, but at least the SN76489 PSG is the same in ColecoVision and e.g. IBM PCjr so the same chip might be usable in both modes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) Keep in mind there was a huge slowdown in the pc market starting late 84, where as you have 150+ different PC makers in the US alone in 84, there was ~40 left in 85 http://archive.org/details/Slowdown1985 Remember that there was a recession a couple years earlier which would have caused pent up demand for around '83-'84 which would inflate sales numbers, then the TS-1000 inflated sales figures because of it's low price, a price war raged and sudden low prices inflated sales, this stressed company finances, a whole bunch of underpowered imports hit in fall '83, people were starting to buy PCs rather than less expensive machines, cheaper portables like the Tandy 100 were replacing desktops, investors were funding anything for a while and then yanked funding before companies could really establish themselves in the market, etc... Commodore, Apple, Radio Shack and Atari machines all survived this period. All of those companies had stable funding as much as anything. I think it's less an issue of the crash not happening than it is of surviving in the market and we are back to previous discussions about the ADAM. The division that makes computers can't be loosing money. Edited October 18, 2013 by JamesD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.