108 Stars Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) The market for 7800 homebrews is small afaik, a couple of 100 copies per game. The XM has already sold 250. I think it is likely that pretty much evryone interested in 7800 homebrews will be interested in an XM too. That said, I am not a fan of such add-ons in general. I really was absolutely against it when something like this for the Lynx was theorized here on AA. But that has more to do with my belief that the Lynx hardware is good enough as it is and requires no add-on to compete with its competitors, the GameBoy and Game Gear. And possibly my soft spot for the system. With the XM the situation is that for one I don't have a strong connection to it, and secondly from all the games I have it clearly got the short end of the stick when it comes to games that do not fit the classic arcade approach of the pre-Nintendo-times. Don't set me on fire now. It sometimes comes close, but never reaches the big games quite. I have a hard time imagining a Contra game, a Castlevania or something like that on it. From what I've seen it just needs help to see eye to eye with the NES and SMS when it comes to such games. The NES had that help on cartridge, that would be even more of a hassle than buying an XM once though. Edited December 18, 2013 by 108 Stars 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 If a Hardware Homebrewer comes forward and offers the XM needed components for a specific title inside each individual cart for that specific title, they will be highly regarded and that cart device and developing for it would be without issue for the same people having issue with the XM unit. It truly comes down to personal preference of wanting things done a certain/their way - cart-by-cart basis instead of a central unit. The points (factual or not), becomes irrelevant and inconsequential. As long as it is made to support their stance of keeping all the games, or at least the games they are interested in, distributed the way they want to see it done. The ridiculousness of (indirectly) dictating how a developer should program or/and release games for the Atari 7800 is not even considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 With the XM the situation is that for one I don't have a strong connection to it, and secondly from all the games I have it clearly got the short end of the stick when it comes to games that do not fit the classic arcade approach of the pre-Nintendo-times. Don't set me on fire now. It sometimes comes close, but never reaches the big games quite. I have a hard time imagining a Contra game, a Castlevania or something like that on it. From what I've seen it just needs help to see eye to eye with the NES and SMS when it comes to such games. The NES had that help on cartridge, that would be even more of a hassle than buying an XM once though. Ready your flame retardant suit!!! Actually that is dead-on. Both points: 1. The 7800 did not have the same 'help' the NES received via cart hardware. It does need help to see eye to eye with the NES and SMS. Those systems had the help, and the 7800 deserves the same treatment and respect. The XM provides it with a long-term vision of saving time, money, and resources. 2. Purchasing the XM once is much less of a hassle than trying to customize and then provide the same hardware (chips) over and over for each game. On the other hand, if something comes along that can provide the XM functionality needed for certain games and be reasonably priced for a game-to-game, cart-by-cart basis, it would be absolutely supported. That would be wonderful. But some people knocking the XM and making false accusations and/or trying to direct homebrew development is just silly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Interesting - so Software Homebrewers are awesome, but Hardware Homebrewers are fucking assholes? If they're doing it to further subdivide an already-small base platform, then pretty much yup. The XM isn't like the High Score Cartridge, which optionally enhances the individual experience for those who have one. It's its own little separate software ecosystem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 If they're doing it to further subdivide an already-small base platform Interesting assumption; after all, there's no way they'd be creating new hardware because they enjoy the challenge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 If they're doing it to further subdivide an already-small base platform, then pretty much yup. If anyone thinks that is the intention of a hardware homebrewer, it helps explain the skewed thinking towards the product as well. It is a warped perception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 It is a warped perception. The impression I get is that of a spoiled little kid who believes everybody must cater to their every whim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 It's its own little separate software ecosystem. But when you look at it having sold 250 units already, and look at the quantities the average 7800 homebrew sells... don't you think it is very likely that the vast majority of fans have already bought the XM? It seems to me that the acceptance is so high that the fans not having an XM will be the minority. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Interesting assumption; after all, there's no way they'd be creating new hardware because they enjoy the challenge Enjoying a challenge is not mutually exclusive with awareness of the potential negative consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 The only potential negative consequence I'm seeing is "mommy mommy, the big kids won't build their fort the way I told them to". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Yes, you are thinking and reacting in a very defensive manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Yes, I am, because I find it very offensive of you to dictate how others should spend their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColecoGemini Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 But when you look at it having sold 250 units already, and look at the quantities the average 7800 homebrew sells... don't you think it is very likely that the vast majority of fans have already bought the XM? It seems to me that the acceptance is so high that the fans not having an XM will be the minority. Being one of the fans in the minority having not been given a chance to purchase one kinda sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 The XM seems like a must-have for new 7800 homebrew. I don't think Kurt would underestimate how big future runs should be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorfcadet Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I'm very excited to get my hands on one. The programmers around here are awesome at what they do and are free to do whatever they want. If I want to do graphics for a console only 250 people own, I guess that is my choice. The griping seems silly. Its like complaining at Sega that Virtua Fighter was on 32X and not Genesis... oh wait, it was. It was crap. The XMs are just more tools in the toolbox and more toys in the sandbox. I'm just happy the scene is kicking so many years later. I know folks have already dug in their heels one way or another, but we can disagree without being disagreeable. All peeing in the sandbox does is make everyone want to take their toys and go home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I have yet to purchase any 7800 homebrew software, so I know that my opinion is practically worthless.... but the folks over in the current 32x thread have been having a discussion about fracturing markets with console add-ons like the Sega 32x, Aladdin Deck Enhancer, Wii Motion Plus, Kinect, etc. They don't seem to be in favor of the idea. But hey, I like my 32x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Yes, I am, because I find it very offensive of you to dictate how others should spend their time. See, it's actually kind of fascinating the way you deliberately twist and filter what I've said. Deliberately ignoring the very real base-splitting issue while clinging to some invented notion that I'm dictating how you should spend your time. Classic defensive behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Being one of the fans in the minority having not been given a chance to purchase one kinda sucks Keep in mind...Curt has always said that once the pre-orders have been satisfied, he will continue to make batches of XM's available. IMHO, once the first orders get taken care of, It would only make sense that Curt would want to sell more of them. Mainly, to help recoup some money on the massive amount of R&D time he & his team has invested (not to mention all of the costs associated with the numerous unforeseen hardware revisions). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomaios Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 See, it's actually kind of fascinating the way you deliberately twist and filter what I've said. Deliberately ignoring the very real base-splitting issue while clinging to some invented notion that I'm dictating how you should spend your time. Classic defensive behavior.The XM is "base splitting" the 7800 fanbase like the ColecoVision split the 2600 market. If you don't like it, don't want it, don't buy it! If you are worried about developers making only games for the 7800 XM, remember that it's their time and effort, not yours. They don't even have to make anything for it at all! He's not twisting what you said. He's just following the implications. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 In before the troll lock. Allan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 See, it's actually kind of fascinating the way you deliberately twist and filter what I've said. Deliberately ignoring the very real base-splitting issue while clinging to some invented notion that I'm dictating how you should spend your time. Classic defensive behavior. That's too funny - I didn't ignore your "issue", I consider it a non-issue. To paraphrase what I said before: As a homebrew developer (be it software and/or hardware) what I work on is for me, not you. If you happen to enjoy it, that's great. If not, so what. As for "invented notion", hardly. I'm not the only one who sees your make believe issue as a way to tell others of acceptable uses of their time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I personally don't care if any future homebrews get made for the XM. I want it because it's a project, labor of love, and add on that is finally being made... based on a device that was originally supposed to be produced in the 80's. For me, I want it more for the limited collectors item status that it will have. A 7800 keyboard would be icing on the cake. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) Umm, there's a pretty tangible divide between the XM haves and have-nots. no one has a xm yet.. What I meant by that is its a problem if you want to make it a problem which you clearly do. If you really want a xm get one. . I am also getting sick of this add on BS no nothings are talking about.. there is no separate processor and hsc pokey etc. Were all there back in the day. Controllers like joysticks are add ons then.. Heres a tip buy an xm then all of this is a non issue. Thats what 250 of us did. Oh my xm was 89.99.. 250 of them were. Price of 2-3 homebrew games. The hsc part of it I really want. I got dk xm coming and thats another reason to have it also the not realeased yet bentley bear is a very good reason for me to have an xm. Contra type games never happen?? Combine xm with cpu wiz's new boards and all those types of games are possible to be made. Oh and zb. Cut out your trolling crap its getting old everyone sees that as well. We are not all 11. Edited December 19, 2013 by Jinks 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 In before the troll lock. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 When will you guys learn? DO NOT LISTEN TO ZYLONPAIN! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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