Is it fact that Nintendo Saved Gaming?

[mos6507]

Generation-X and Generation-Y pretty much split right on the videogame crash, with X being the Atari generation and Y being the Nintendo generation. X upgraded to 8-bit home computers and Y latched onto the NES and the Japanese aesthetic. That's how I see it. It's a generational or fashion-trend split. Much is made of the "improvement" with NES gaming but it wasn't so much better as just different.

 

[MaximRecoil]

Generation-X and Generation-Y pretty much split right on the videogame crash, with X being the Atari generation and Y being the Nintendo generation. X upgraded to 8-bit home computers and Y latched onto the NES and the Japanese aesthetic. That's how I see it. It's a generational or fashion-trend split. Much is made of the "improvement" with NES gaming but it wasn't so much better as just different.

I was born in 1975, so still "Generation X". My first console was an Atari 2600, which I bought with money I'd saved in 1985, when I was 10. Before that I'd played Pong machines, Atari 2600, Atari 5200, ColecoVision, Intellivision, Vectrex, a few random home computer games, and most importantly, arcade games.

 

I first played the NES in 1986 when my cousin Mike got one almost as soon as they were released nationally. I wasn't immediately impressed with the game he was playing the first time I saw the machine in action (Super Mario Bros.); it seemed overly "cutsie" and pointless. However, as I was looking through the other games he'd bought, I saw Excitebike, which was one of my favorite games in the arcade at the time (in the form of Vs. Excitebike, which was in U.S. arcades before the U.S. release of the NES), and when I saw that it was the same game as I'd been playing for the past year or so in the arcade, and not some crude/hobbled port like I'd come to expect from console ports of arcade games, all of the sudden every other home console I'd ever played was obsolete in my mind. Super Mario Bros. then became one of my favorite games once I gave it a chance. Going home to Pitfall on my 2600 just didn't cut the mustard after playing SMB.

 

As far as I'm concerned, video games continued to improve until the late 1980s / early 1990s, reaching a peak with the SNES and arcade hardware such as Capcom's CPS-1 (which Street Fighter II and Final Fight ran on) and SNK's Neo Geo MVS. CPS-2 and later 2D arcade hardware was more capable, but that capability allowed the game artists to give things a more "anime" look, which I hate.

 

Then things moved to 3D with the PlayStation and Nintendo 64, which for the most part, I couldn't care less about, and it has been all downhill since then. There have only been two 3D games I've liked: Syphon Filter (PlayStation) and Virtua Tennis (Sega Naomi arcade / Dreamcast).

Edited December 18, 2013 by MaximRecoil

[Andromeda Stardust]

Generation-X and Generation-Y pretty much split right on the videogame crash, with X being the Atari generation and Y being the Nintendo generation. X upgraded to 8-bit home computers and Y latched onto the NES and the Japanese aesthetic. That's how I see it. It's a generational or fashion-trend split. Much is made of the "improvement" with NES gaming but it wasn't so much better as just different.

 

You've got a valid point. I'm a Generation Y'er (born in 1981) and I'm a Nintendo Fanboy first and foremost. I finally broke down in 2012 and bought the "crude" system I had been badmouthing for 10+ years (Atari 2600) and I have thoroughly enjoyed gaming on it once I got past the blocky graphics and blip/bleep sound effects.

 

NES simply got it right on all accounts. Nothing truly beats 8-bit or 16-bit tile graphics, however I do get much enjoyment from 3D games as well. The Mario Galaxy games are IMO the most awe-inspiring Mario titles ever made. People who claim they don't care for newer 3D stuff can still find a lot of good solid 2D games for Wii and Wii-U in the form of 1st party titles and retro-inspired indie games. There's a lot more 2D out there now than there was in 5th and 6th generations, for sure. I wouldn't bother with PS4 or Xbone, though, unless you enjoy getting your head blown off by snipers, chasing zombies with a chainsaw, or playing the same sports games year after year.

[karokoenig]

...or playing the same sports games year after year.

 

To be fair, that feature has been installed ever since at least the SNES/Genesis days.

[MrMaddog]

Well... If it hadn't been for Nintendo then everyone in North America would be playing games on home computers like the 6-64 just like the Europeans, and even in Japan they would have used MSX machines for their gaming. What Nintendo did bring back was the ease of plug-in-the-cart gaming which is easier than typing in LOAD "*",8,1 and wait forever for the disk to load up. OTOH, computer games were much more sophisticated for adults and teens than the NES games which were primary made for kids.

 

I don't hate Nintendo games but I hated how the Big N used their marketing position to lock out other game companies and influecing an entire generation of children that only Nintendo makes good games. And this revisionism is still rampant amongst to Millennials who are now in charge of the gaming press. I can understand the 2600 being old and obsolete in the late 80's, but also trashing the SMS with better graphics and gameplay??

 

To me, dumping on Atari is like saying my whole childhood was worthless. And it's the same as a kid today saying Nintendo games suck because they're not as modern as CoD. Yes Atari royally screwed and nearly took down the video game industry, but don't forget they made it sucessful in the first place allowing companies like Nintendo and Sony to even be in it...

 

So yeah, Nintendo did saved 'console' gaming. But with computers, both Commodore machines and current PC's, video gaming was never going to go away... I actually come to respect the NES in recent years more so than I did back when I owned one. All I ask is gamers in their 20's and 30's to just learn more about video game history outside their childhoods and understand how things were at the time instead of just blindly bash games before their time.

[The Usotsuki]

Madden originated on the Apple, you know.

[Austin]

 

To be fair, that feature has been installed ever since at least the SNES/Genesis days.

 

You mean since the industry really took off, right? (re: the Atari days)

[NE146]

I only know from MY perspective as a consumer, and I think I'm somewhat unique in that 1. I was/am a big Atari fan, and 2. Being from Guam, had access to, and traveled to Japan frequently throughout the late 70's/early 80's with my family. So I kind of saw it all "as it happened" and without internet, just processed things in my brain the way I saw them.

 

My experience is:

 

1. my 5200 was laying idle, sadly under my bed. My controllers were broken, and even if I could get it to work, the amount of games I could get for it had dwindled to nothing. I WANTED to play it but video games seemed to be dead aside from arcade games. The magazines showed computer games, but those were out of reach for me.

 

2. I go to Japan on vacation and at the store, lo and behold is Famicom Mario Bros. (not super) and I was BLOWN AWAY To think that a home video game could come near the arcade version, it was a miracle! At that point though I thought it was for japanese tv's only. Then about a year later, I managed to score a bootleg famicom back home and then the love of vids happened again.

 

So yeah, NES definitely revived it in my life experience. 'Didn't change anything for me about the Atari though, they're all one happy family collection.

[malducci]

How is arguing about rock music less nerdy than arguing about video games?

Really? You have to ask? When has rock music ever been nerdy?

[sega_SHARK]

Really? You have to ask? When has rock music ever been nerdy?

So did Nirvana factually save rock music?

[Andromeda Stardust]

So did Nirvana factually save rock music?

No, it was all Hendrix, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, ZZTop, ACDC, and countless other rock legends. There's so many I can't name them all. Nirvanna is good, but they're not "Classic" rock...

[sega_SHARK]

But the market for rock music was dead or at least on life support due to so many hair metal bands putting out bad product.

[AtariLeaf]

So did Nirvana factually save rock music?

Nirvana sucks, so. . . no.

[sega_SHARK]

But they sold millions of records (insert sales number here)!

[malducci]

Others are more objective.

 

 

Some, yes. Most? No. I like this forum, but there's a H-U-G-E bias for Atari here (well, duh) and very defensive for anything competitive to Atari BITD. There's also a farily large (what seems like to me, anyway) anti-japanese game design sort of thing that I've seen here quite a bit (more so in the atari specific sub forums, and less so here in the classic gaming sub forum - but it's still here too). Well, with the exception of Pac-man and Donkey Kong (for whatever reason).

 

 

 

The problem here, as with other forums that have this type of debate, is that people come the conclusion solely based on their experience with said history. North America is a pretty damn big place (let alone the rest of the world) and there are going to be different experiences across counties, towns, cities, states, countries, etc (etc ??? Jail cells and prisons! Yeah!). I even fall into this trap. I was born in the mid 70's. I might not be as old as some of you fuq'ers, but I'm old enough to remember playing the 2600. I went to the arcade at age 4-5. I can tell you, that growing up in the 80's, I was one of the few kids that actually had a small home computer (CoCo 2). Be it neighborhood or school. I never cared for the 2600 or the 5200 as kid (I thought the games were too simplistic and boring. Still do to this day). I knew of 2 or 3 people that had a 2600 or such, during the 80's. I'm sure kids had them at school, but no one talked about them. No one talked about video games as at all, before the NES came out. I was one of the few that continued to play arcade games quite frequently. I had one friend that had a C64 and he got that after the NES was already hitting it big. Never knew of anyone that had an Atari 8bit ot ST computer. One person had an Amiga (my older bother's friend). Nobody had PC's, or rather PC's that were worth playing anything on (8086 with monochrome 1bit graphics - no thank you). And I was the only one that knew how to code in basic. Even in high school (freshman 1990).

 

So when I see all these posts about how well the 2600 was still doing in 1985, I have to ask myself.. what??? My parents were always going out to pay bills or whatever at the stores. I was ALWAYS looking at toys, electronics, and computer mags (or hanging around radio shack or whatever small computer store). All the atari and coleco stuff that I saw, was at USED game markets (mostly swap meets or used shops). I've had people tell me that the Amiga was fairly big in the US. I NEVER saw an amiga in the stores. Only that one Amiga magazine at the book store along with the rest of the computer mags (which is how I knew about it). I did see an ST once, but that was at a used shop. Let alone, knew any body to have such systems/computers. It wasn't until the 90's, when that stuff was being sold used for dirt cheap, did I see some of that stuff pop up. And even then.

 

Yeah, Tucson wasn't the biggest city - but it was a 'city'. And lots of stores. When NES hit the scene, everybody and their mother was carrying that system and softs. I remember even a 'lamp' store carring a few games.

 

Now, maybe my experience is directly related to the age I was at the time. I wasn't old enough to have a job, thus no income other than allowance or odd work around the house/birthdays/xmas. Same with my friends (obviously). Though we weren't exactly poor (my Dad spent $400 on that CoCo 2 in 1983 long with a big 27" TV that cost $800 at the time). But I have a feeling that older kids (teens), with income (most likely jobs), had the money to buy such expensive things and thus had a different experience than mine. And mostly likely their friends as well. If not that, then it definitely had a variance from area to area.

 

When the NES hit the scene, it was thee-hottest-thing-ever. The games were incredible, fun, and completely new/different than anything I had played before it. My brother had an NES in '86. He sold it after a few months. I bought one a few months later. There was nothing like it. And by 1989/1990, even dirt poor kids had an NES. Sure, games were expensive - but you could rent NES carts. That, and we trade-borrowed carts between friends and associates.

 

So while you guys can argue the definition of 'saving' the game industry in North America, I'll falt out say that the NES revolutionized gaming in the US. SMS was a blip. 7800 what? I didn't even know atari came out with a new console (and I read lots of game mags) in the late 80's. I did see the reshelfing of the 2600 and 5200 at playworld as the 'cheap' alternative to the NES (and I do remember the atari commercials stating as much). Or maybe I did see some 7800 games, but they just looked like old 5200 stuffs at the time (pretty sure PlayWorld had the 7800, if they were carring the SMS, 2600 repacked, and 2600/5200 games). When I saw the sales numbers for the 7800 posted a number of years ago, I couldn't believe it. Who the hell bought those systems? I had a ton of gaming friends and associates and never once heard of anyone saying they owned a 7800 or even talk about the system. A few SMS systems, yeah. A handful of TG16s. But 7800??? I still have a hard time believing those numbers.

 

Someone made the remark that if Nintendo didn't exist, that SMB and Zelda wouldn't either. I disagree. Not because what's-his-face would have created those on another system, but because of the fact in Japan - Nintendo wasn't the only choice for gaming. The MSX/2/2+ and the NEC PC lines were ripe with Japanese style softs.Those were very popular alternatives to the Famicom. They all drew influence from each other. Similar games would have existed, though they might not have been world renowned. If Nintendo hadn't come in when they did in the US, I suspect that he US would have went the way of Europe. Though probably not as big of a small computer scene. It probably would have taken until the 16bit home console scene to gain that sort of following (that the NES did). The US != EU or UK. Different regions, different mentality, different habits, etc. Err.. yeah....

Edited December 19, 2013 by malducci

[+wood_jl]

You've got a valid point. I'm a Generation Y'er (born in 1981) and I'm a Nintendo Fanboy first and foremost. I finally broke down in 2012 and bought the "crude" system I had been badmouthing for 10+ years (Atari 2600) and I have thoroughly enjoyed gaming on it once I got past the blocky graphics and blip/bleep sound effects.

I'm Gen X so big Atari and *then* Nintendo fan. The blocky graphics of the 2600 stuff is now like art to me. I can get photo-realism anywhere now, and while I love it, sometimes I gots to have my blocks. Lots of the games are too simple to hold my attention anymore now, but when a game can use the blocky graphics and coarse sound (meager hardware) and still pull off some fantastic gameplay, I'm much more impressed *now* than I was "back in the day." The "best" of the old 2600 games and definitely most of the new homebrews/hacks represent a stupendous programmer skill set (in both art and science) to do it on that old machine, and those efforts are still thoroughly entertaining to me today.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I'm Gen X so big Atari and *then* Nintendo fan. The blocky graphics of the 2600 stuff is now like art to me. I can get photo-realism anywhere now, and while I love it, sometimes I gots to have my blocks. Lots of the games are too simple to hold my attention anymore now, but when a game can use the blocky graphics and coarse sound (meager hardware) and still pull off some fantastic gameplay, I'm much more impressed *now* than I was "back in the day." The "best" of the old 2600 games and definitely most of the new homebrews/hacks represent a stupendous programmer skill set (in both art and science) to do it on that old machine, and those efforts are still thoroughly entertaining to me today.

Well said. I think what attracts me the most with the VCS/2600 with it's blocky rectangles and blips and beeps, is it's sheer unrefined rawness. The console should never have been capable of anything more than PONG and COMBAT with it's 128 bytes of RAM, two player sprites, redraw the screen every scanline instead of every frame, etc, but somehow, programmers figured out ways to pull stuff off that was previously thought impossible, and they're still doing it to this day.

 

Still though, it takes a special type of gamer to relate to the VCS. I didn't see that point of view until recently. VCS graphics and sound are still kind of cold and harsh in a way. NES has warm cartoony visuals and still puts out addictive hummable chip tunes that stick with you all day long when you're not playing.

Edited December 19, 2013 by stardust4ever

[high voltage]

But in the end, it's agreeable, the NES didn't invent anything (Japanese actually are a nation of 'copiers' not inventors) and didn't save video gaming, but it makes nice folklore.

Edited December 19, 2013 by high voltage

[high voltage]

Well said. I think what attracts me the most with the VCS/2600 with it's blocky rectangles and blips and beeps, is it's sheer unrefined rawness. The console should never have been capable of anything more than PONG and COMBAT with it's 128 bytes of RAM, two player sprites, redraw the screen every scanline instead of every frame, etc, but somehow, programmers figured out ways to pull stuff off that was previously thought impossible, and they're still doing it to this day.

 

Still though, it takes a special type of gamer to relate to the VCS. I didn't see that point of view until recently. VCS graphics and sound are still kind of cold and harsh in a way. NES has warm cartoony visuals and still puts out addictive hummable chip tunes that stick with you all day long when you're not playing.

 

See, I believe it's the other way 'round the VCS has nice warm cartoony graphics, especially from the humble beginnings of beeps and blips (the quality jump from the colour box games to the silver box games was like....amazing), and memorable tunes (I can still hum Pressure Cooker, Moon Patrol, Big Birds Egg catch, Pitfall II and many more), but of course you had to be there.

 

Of course, over time programmers learned how to get the most out of the console, it's a natural progress. And developers used many tricks they had learned from programming previous console generations. Always remember the NES (Famicom) started off by doing VCS games (DK, Mario Bros, Popeye), so you could say the NES evolved from the VCS

But truthful, comparing NES and VCS is like comparing PC Engine and NES, worlds apart.

 

As I said before in 1988 many gamers had moved on using ST or Amiga, now all the sudden we had super quality graphics, amazing digitized sounds and music, and great gameplay.

Edited December 19, 2013 by high voltage

[+Random Terrain]

VCS graphics and sound are still kind of cold and harsh in a way.

Changing the volume and the frequency during a sound effect can turn harsh into pleasing and more interesting if the programmer isn't completely tone-deaf. It also works to make music sound better. I love it when an Atari 2600 programmer tries to shape his or her sound effects or musical notes instead of using what the Atari 2600 produces straight out of the can.

[Austin]

 

Always remember the NES (Famicom) started off by doing VCS games (DK, Mario Bros, Popeye), so you could say the NES evolved from the VCS

 

This statement is flawed. Those were originally arcade games, all created by Nintendo nonetheless. In the beginning, they were to the NES in the same way as Asteroids, Missile Command, and Centipede were to the VCS.

[desiv]

(Japanese actually are a nation of 'copiers' not inventors)

Umm..

 

Is that trolling or true racism? I can't quite tell....

 

desiv

[sega_SHARK]

[Rex Dart]

 

 

Good enough for me! Case closed.

[MaximRecoil]

This statement is flawed. Those were originally arcade games, all created by Nintendo nonetheless. In the beginning, they were to the NES in the same way as Asteroids, Missile Command, and Centipede were to the VCS.

His statement was not just flawed, but hilariously flawed, so much so that I wonder if he's making such statements on purpose. Can anyone interested in classic video games really be that oblivious to the arcade? I mean, judging from his post, he thinks that Donkey Kong, Mario Bros., and Popeye were original titles for the Atari 2600, rather than ports of Nintendo arcade games, which is unbelievable. I suspect he's "trolling" or whatever you want to call it.