Is it fact that Nintendo Saved Gaming?

[JamesD]

FWIW, where I lived the kids that had Atari's around 1980 started getting computers around 1982.
There were VIC20s, Tandy CoCos, TI-99/4As...
Where families bought computers for business but the kids got to use them it was more TRS-80 Model I/III and Apple IIs.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I'm gonna go on a limb here about the whole "there wasn't any crash" debacle. I was born in 1981 so I was too young to remember it when it happened, but the fact that people were still playing old game systems in there homes and buying cheap games in bargain bins does not an industry make. The market was flooded with low quality games that few people wanted, and everyone, manufacturers and retailers alike, were taking heavy losses on the sales. Sure you can view modern equivalents like the $5 DVD bin at Walmart, but they are not equivalent. The discount DVD bin is selling cheap crappy movies at $5 a pop, which cost pennies to manufacture, and the studios have long since milked most of the profit for these older titles. And you can always buy new release movies for $20 DVD or $30 Blu-Ray. During the video game crash era, the "discount bins" were selling games for 99 cents to 2 dollar, which likely cost about $10 to manufacture and initially retailed for $40. Manufacturers took heavy losses on unsold stock, often liquidating stock by dumping them in landfills when distributors refused to touch the stuff. Retailers were liquidating remaining inventory by unloading remaining stock at vastly reduced prices far below wholesale value. And no consumers could be expected to pay retail for new games when 3rd party knockoffs were available for sale in the bargain bins at 99cents a pop. Such a market is unsustainable. Manufacturers will go bankrupt. Stores will liquidate remaining inventory to create space for products that will earn profit and pay the rent. Finally, what market is left over after the Smorgasboard buffet of bargain bin games has dired up? There is none. Or is there?

 

Enter Nintendo.

 

Finally I'd like to add that, while markets don't truly die, they can shrink in size until they become unprofitable. Yes, there's a market for retro-gaming. But how big is it? How many GameStops and large retailers are there selling new games, for every mom-and-pop secondhand store that sells vintage used? See? The fact that a much larger market exists for new stuff ensures the survival of the much smaller retro gaming market into the future. Well, at least for the time being until digital downloads fully replace retail.

Edited December 16, 2013 by stardust4ever

[+Gemintronic]

I saw computers try to turn themselves back into consoles. Things like the XEGS and Amiga 500 would have taken over. Nintendo just offered sweetheart deals to retailers and won.

[Master Phruby]

It's amazing how the games that were in those bargain bins for .99cents are now worth hundreds of dollars to collectors looking for something unique.

[MaximRecoil]

It's amazing how the games that were in those bargain bins for .99cents are now worth hundreds of dollars to collectors looking for something unique.

I'm sure some rare titles made it into bargain bins somewhere, but it was mostly extremely common and once-popular titles like Defender, Space Invaders, Yar's Revenge, Missile Command, Pac-Man, and so on. It was major retailers like Kmart, and places like that weren't likely to have rare titles to begin with. Plus, it wasn't as if there was the 99 cent bin plus normally-priced $20 - $50 games still on the shelves; all of their cartridges were in there. It would seem odd to be selling the entire console for $30 and still have e.g. $30 games for it on the shelves.

[Serguei2]

If Nintendo didn't save video games,, it surely introduced new features in video games like:

 

1 - Write passwords to reach a level : I don't remembered any consoles before Nintendo using passwords.

 

2 - Battery backup. Now you can save your games and play them later.

 

3 - Longer gameplay: you can't finish a game with only one sitting.

 

4 - The gamepads ... Much better than joysticks.

[desiv]

1 - Write passwords to reach a level : I don't remembered any consoles before Nintendo using passwords.

Consoles, maybe, but games as early as Diamond Mine for the Apple II (1983) did that

 

2 - Battery backup. Now you can save your games and play them later.

For consoles, yes. Of course Computers had this type of thing for ages with storage..

(I'm not dissing the NES, I'm getting there... Wait for it..)

 

3 - Longer gameplay: you can't finish a game with only one sitting.

I'm guessing that is tied to the first two. Again, not new to computers..

 

So maybe Nintendo realized that some people were doing these things with computer gaming, and made it happen on their console.. That way, more people wouldn't "defect" to the computer game realm...

Well, I don't think the password feature was thought of that way, no one liked that feature ON the computer, but it was a great way for a console to do it... (without needing battery-backed RAM)

 

4 - The gamepads ... Much better than joysticks.

You might get some argument from the Intellivision crowd, as its pad seems to have all the parts with a different orientation, although few would argue that the NES did it much better..

 

desiv

Edited December 17, 2013 by desiv

[Rhomaios]

Just waiting for the guy to come in and deliver another racist rant against the Japanese for "forcing 'Japanese' gamepads" on the West...

[+wood_jl]

I got my NES sometime around 1988. Before that I had a 2600 and a 7800. The NES was what I had been lusting after for years. Games like "Super Mario Bros.", "Contra" and "Mike Tyson's Punch-Out" seemed a huge leap from what I had been playing on the 2600, and the same old arcade ports such as "Dig Dug" and "Ms. Pac-Man" that I'd been playing on the 7800. Nintendo was significant for me at that time.

 

This!

 

Very similar experience for me; I was skeptical about the NES and didn't play one for probably a year or 2 after they were available. I was blown away by how fun the games (like the ones you've mentioned) were.

 

Yeah, Nintendo repeats the same games over and over each generation, but since the NES was their original console and that's what we're talking about, it's not relevant (for the sake of this discussion) that they later repeated the games, nor that the repeats (frequently) improved significantly.

 

There's always going to be fanboys, haters, and reasonable people (many of whom have a wide-variety in gaming tastes) in the middle. Nobody is likely to change their opinion here, so this discussion is about as useful as many of the "this versus that" threads here that went on for so many pages with little modification of anybody's opinion.

[BassGuitari]

You might get some argument from the Intellivision crowd, as its pad seems to have all the parts with a different orientation, although few would argue that the NES did it much better..

 

No argument here. As an Intellivision fan, "The Disc" is much more a forerunner of the iPod Wheel than the D-pad. It may have been a step toward the D-pad (a fairly strange and unique one, at that), but it's not a D-pad.

[Seob]

Entex select a game 1981

[desiv]

No argument here. As an Intellivision fan, "The Disc" is much more a forerunner of the iPod Wheel than the D-pad. It may have been a step toward the D-pad (a fairly strange and unique one, at that), but it's not a D-pad.

Funny, I always thought "D-Pad" stood for "Directional Pad" and it seems to me that's what the Intellivision pad is...

A pad for choosing directions..

 

But who knows..

 

desiv

[high voltage]

If Nintendo didn't save video games,, it surely introduced new features in video games like:

 

1 - Write passwords to reach a level : I don't remembered any consoles before Nintendo using passwords.

 

2 - Battery backup. Now you can save your games and play them later.

 

3 - Longer gameplay: you can't finish a game with only one sitting.

 

4 - The gamepads: Much better than joysticks.

1. Write passwords was already on Starpath games (VCS)

2. First cartridge with battery backup came with the game Dragonslayer on Epoch Cassettevsion.

3. games like Conquest of the world or Quest for the rings (O2) had long gameplay, there are more, Utopia (Intellivision)

4. Gamepads, this one's for o.pwuaioc.........nasty things, horrible, forced upon the western world from the Japs.

Edited December 17, 2013 by high voltage

[Austin]

4. Gamepads, this one's for o.pwuaioc.........nasty things, horrible, forced upon the western world from the Japs.

 

*cough* douche! *cough*

 

Ahem, sorry, just clearing my throat.

[BassGuitari]

Funny, I always thought "D-Pad" stood for "Directional Pad" and it seems to me that's what the Intellivision pad is...

A pad for choosing directions..

 

But who knows..

 

desiv

Are the cursor keys in a PC numberpad a "Directional Pad?" Is a Maxi Pad with arrows drawn on it a "Directional Pad?" Or are we done with the semantics?

 

However you want to define it, the Intellivision disc has little in common with the D-pads of the NES and pretty much every single console released thereafter. They're both flat and are both used -in the most general sense- to control movement of cursors and objects, but that's about where the similarities end.

 

4. Gamepads, this one's for o.pwuaioc.........nasty things, horrible, forced upon the western world from the Japs.

You've got a lot of problems, don't you?

Edited December 17, 2013 by BassGuitari

[desiv]

Are the cursor keys in a PC numberpad a "Directional Pad?"

I don't think so, as I don't think of separate keys as a PAD...

Is a Maxi Pad with arrows drawn on it a "Directional Pad?"

Not sure what the "Maxi Pad" is.

Or are we done with the semantics?

Someone mentioned a D-Pad, to which I replied about a similar (IMHO) device.

You disagreed, and I stated what I felt a "D-Pad" was to me..

In my experience, it's generally a good idea when people are discussing things to make sure we have a common understanding of the words used..

 

You apparently don't..

No biggie..

 

However you want to define it, the Intellivision disc has little in common with the D-pads of the NES and pretty much every single console released thereafter.

It's totally OK for us to disagree on this..

They're both flat

so a PAD.. OK...

and are both used -in the most general sense- to control movement of cursors and objects

for Direction... OK..

, but that's about where the similarities end.

er... OK...

 

{Removed some junk here that I typed earlier (that is quoted down below) from my mis-reading of his e-mail... Oopps}

 

Have a good one..

 

desiv

Edited December 17, 2013 by desiv

[BassGuitari]

Because I don't agree with you?

Interesting perspective you have there..

 

desiv

That wasn't directed at you. It was directed at High Voltage's racism.

[desiv]

That wasn't directed at you. It was directed at High Voltage's racism.

Oh, that..

I saw that..

I guess I was hoping that was a joke...

My bad there..

 

desiv

(Not sure how I misread that either.. I remember initially reading it and knowing who it was directed at.. D'oh! :-) )

Edited December 17, 2013 by desiv

[mbd30]

Because I don't agree with you?

Interesting perspective you have there..

 

Have a good one..

 

desiv

"You've got a lot of problems don't you?" was in response to high voltage's Japs comment.

[Rex Dart]

4. Gamepads, this one's for o.pwuaioc.........nasty things, horrible, forced upon the western world from the Japs.

 

Don't worry, Bugs Bunny will get those dastardly devils yet, just you watch (some banned cartoons).

[BassGuitari]

In my experience, it's generally a good idea when people are discussing things to make sure we have a common understanding of the words used..

 

You apparently don't..

No biggie..

I don't think I'm out of line when I say the common understanding of "D-Pad" is a plus sign shaped button that conjoins four individual contacts or switches to allow for 8-way digital motion.

 

The Intellivision disc (apart from being digital) is none those things, being instead a 16-direction pseudo-analog sliding/rotating disc. It's similar in function, but entirely different in design and execution. (Incidentally, I suspect a lot of people dislike the Intellivision disc because they try to use it like a conventional D-Pad, but that's for another thread.)

 

Fair enough?

[AtariLeaf]

 

4. Gamepads, this one's for o.pwuaioc.........nasty things, horrible, forced upon the western world from the Japs.

George Takei thinks you're a racist!

 

[Seob]

Merry christmas everyone. At least i hope that we can lay down our weapons and have a merry christmas.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Seob

[high voltage]

Wow that got a lot of attention, actually I just remembered the Vectrex had Japanese style controllers, so I guess they're off the hook....

Sorry no offense meant with Japs, I love ém really.

Edited December 17, 2013 by high voltage

[desiv]

Fair enough?

Sure..

I still don't agree..

I never thought of the "steering" type of control as pseudo-analog (although that's a great description for what the result is), but just a clever design to get the most of the digital contacts. (Note: "clever design" does NOT necessarily mean "works well" )

And I can see where a lot of people might think D-Pad means PLUS shaped, although that gets grey with the likes of the Sega pads, that are plus shaped while still having a circular shaped pad.

In fact, the SMS pad barely has a plus shape (4 dashes on a rounded square pad...).

 

I'm apparently just too much of a literalist for some things..

 

desiv