It's official, Atari Inc did create a Dual 7800 ProLine Joystick Coupler

[atm94404]

 

The Tramiels didn't have it. The designer had the original schematics when he left Atari, and Dan Kramer liberated the only 2 that he knew of when it looked like everything was going to be trashed. But the chances are, the Tramiels wouldn't have released it anyway if it cost more than a dollar to make.

 

Good to know. So what about a printable version of the coupler?

[AtariBrian]

Yeah , I was hoping that by now we would have a printed one .

[Lynxpro]

So here's my update...

 

I first tried using the AutoDesk 123 iOS app to 3D scan the Coupler. I did 5 attempts and about 60 pictures each time. The app then combines all of the data and creates a render on their server which you can download. Despite all of the angles and extra lighting, it still rendered it with the table top, holes, bubbles, and other distortions. Needless to say, I wasn't happy with that.

 

For the past few months in my spare time - and when I can set everything up without the kids going all Tasmanian Devil on the equipment and area - I've tried scanning using Skanect's software and a Microsoft Kinect. At first, Skanect claimed a C2D based Mac with 10.8 could handle the job although they officially recommended a Quad Core CPU on either Mac or PC. Suffice to say, that didn't work; too little CPU power. Since then, I've borrowed an i5 PC but it still doesn't do the job well. And now, Skanect is recommending an i7 CPU and I truly believe it.

 

So once I have DropBox set up later this evening, I'm going to post a link to the OBJ file which can be edited using MeshLabs or some other CAD program. So if anyone is a pro at CAD, please feel free to edit it. You'll probably be able to create a working STL that can then be 3D printed. I am requesting that it be made available though to everyone.

 

I've also been inquiring with professional 3D Scanning companies. I just received a quote of $625 to do the scan by a firm in Redwood City. That's a bit too rich for my blood; had it been $200, I would've driven there tomorrow myself...

[Lynxpro]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/85stjyzmwcdzw50/mesh.obj?dl=0

 

This is the link to the 45MB OBJ rendering file. Feel free to edit it in MeshLabs, AutoCAD, or whatever. I can't wait to see our fellow talented enthusiasts do with it. Maybe create a version that substitutes the Atari logo with the Atari Age logo instead...

[iesposta]

I do not understand.

You failed with Autodesk and Skanect and it is too expensive to have pro 3D scanned, but you have a 3D file?

[Lynxpro]

I do not understand.

You failed with Autodesk and Skanect and it is too expensive to have pro 3D scanned, but you have a 3D file?

 

Failed is a rather strong word.

 

I was unhappy with the results in AutoDesk 123 which is why I shifted over to Skanect but its results ended up worse. AutoDesk 123 did create a 3D file in OBJ format which someone with better CAD skills can edit & polish it into a useful STL file for 3D printing.

 

The Skanect folks were even skeptical the Kinect would capture a decent scan of the coupler [after they saw photos of it] although that might've been a friendly suggestion at purchasing their Structure Sensor for iPads.

[iesposta]

 

Failed is a rather strong word.

 

I was unhappy with the results in AutoDesk 123 which is why I shifted over to Skanect but its results ended up worse. AutoDesk 123 did create a 3D file in OBJ format which someone with better CAD skills can edit & polish it into a useful STL file for 3D printing.

 

...

Oh, cool. I hope someone does this as I really want one. I will finally have a good use for my unused ProLines.

 

Playing Robotron with the PS2 thumb sticks and CPUWIZ's adapter is also great fun, and 2 sticks is the best way of playing, but there are some bugs that need tweaked and more interest for that product before it has a chance of being made.

[Lynxpro]

Oh, cool. I hope someone does this as I really want one. I will finally have a good use for my unused ProLines.

 

Playing Robotron with the PS2 thumb sticks and CPUWIZ's adapter is also great fun, and 2 sticks is the best way of playing, but there are some bugs that need tweaked and more interest for that product before it has a chance of being made.

 

 

I've tried editing the file but I end up erasing important stuff in addition to my table top surface. I suspect it might be easier with a graphics tablet and stylus. Smoothing out certain areas and filling in other areas would be helpful and would help to make it structurally sound.

 

I did receive advice from several 3D printing enthusiasts to print the coupler using ABS plastic and not any of the bio plastics [corn, hemp, etc] because apparently they haven't made them strong enough yet. Eventually, I have no doubt they'll be strong enough to replace ABS [probably hemp being the prime candidate] but it'll probably be another couple of years.

[Lynxpro]

Or...should we go the Kickstarter route to raise the funds necessary to professionally 3D scan the coupler?

 

If so, who would be interested in donating if the payoff was the finished STL file being sent to you?

[Lynxpro]

Oh, cool. I hope someone does this as I really want one. I will finally have a good use for my unused ProLines.

 

Playing Robotron with the PS2 thumb sticks and CPUWIZ's adapter is also great fun, and 2 sticks is the best way of playing, but there are some bugs that need tweaked and more interest for that product before it has a chance of being made.

 

Iesposta, let me ask you an unrelated question.

 

Since you know the DPC [or DPC+], do you think it might be powerful enough to handle the processing for native Trak-Ball support? I ask because people have stated elsewhere on here that adding Trak-Ball support to the 2600 and XEGS versions of Crystal Castles would be impossible since the CPU in both versions track Bentley Bear constantly. If that's true, I thought perhaps a DPC might be a solution [at least on the 2600; I have no clue if it would be able to work as a co-processor on A8/5200 or 7800].

 

And two...why no DPC love on the 7800? It's made me wonder why Activision didn't use the chip on any of their post-1985 2600 & 7800 releases. Crom knows the audio from it would've been far better than the TIA stuff they stuck us with. Hmmm...POKEY, DPC, and TIA all working together...

Edited May 1, 2015 by Lynxpro

[iesposta]

AFAIK the Atari has to draw the screen the same way and read the hardware attached to it the same way with or without DPC/+ or a co-processor.

DPC lets one instruction, "Load The A Register," run a few cycles faster which can add up and let more be done during the drawing of a scanline.

Bus Stuffing is another technique that will soon be explored that lets a bit more be done each scanline.

 

An ARM computer co-processor can pass and process data faster than the 6507 computer, but it does not speed up the hardware.

In the case of a trackball or paddle, it needs checked once or twice per scan line. Unless the cycles are there to do that, you need to rewrite or optimise things to add that in.

 

I don't fully understand all of it, and I'm even worse at explaining things, but I don't think my facts are too far off, and maybe you understand a little bit better?

[+DrVenkman]

AFAIK the Atari has to draw the screen the same way and read the hardware attached to it the same way with or without DPC/+ or a co-processor.

DPC lets one instruction, "Load The A Register," run a few cycles faster which can add up and let more be done during the drawing of a scanline.

Bus Stuffing is another technique that will soon be explored that lets a bit more be done each scanline.

 

An ARM computer co-processor can pass and process data faster than the 6507 computer, but it does not speed up the hardware.

In the case of a trackball or paddle, it needs checked once or twice per scan line. Unless the cycles are there to do that, you need to rewrite or optimise things to add that in.

 

I don't fully understand all of it, and I'm even worse at explaining things, but I don't think my facts are too far off, and maybe you understand a little bit better?

 

The 7800 uses a 6502C "Sally" with a HALT line, not a 6507. The HALT line should - theoretically - allow an entirely separate processor inside the cartridge take control of the bus and do whatever it wants. I don't know if that has ever been fully explored in the Atari world.

[Lynxpro]

 

The 7800 uses a 6502C "Sally" with a HALT line, not a 6507. The HALT line should - theoretically - allow an entirely separate processor inside the cartridge take control of the bus and do whatever it wants. I don't know if that has ever been fully explored in the Atari world.

 

Damn, I should've asked Jerry Jessop today at the Davis Atari Party if there had been any discussion on making the Mickey [the Amiga Lorraine chipset] into a plug-in upgrade for the 7800… I think I was mesmerized by him talking about how him and Tod Frye had a wire-wrapped system that used the GTIA and a TIA which they designed to counter GCC's project [which became the 7800]. He said the CPU was twice the clock speed of the 6502s in the A8/5200/7800 and could play all 2600 and 5200 games in addition to its own souped up titles but Warner chose to go with GCC's designs instead.

[Inky]

Necro bump!

I think I'm going to try mounting the pain lines to a board with "industrial velcro" and see if that is a good way to do the two joystick control scheme with Robotron.

[Shawn]

 

Damn, I should've asked Jerry Jessop today at the Davis Atari Party if there had been any discussion on making the Mickey [the Amiga Lorraine chipset] into a plug-in upgrade for the 7800… I think I was mesmerized by him talking about how him and Tod Frye had a wire-wrapped system that used the GTIA and a TIA which they designed to counter GCC's project [which became the 7800]. He said the CPU was twice the clock speed of the 6502s in the A8/5200/7800 and could play all 2600 and 5200 games in addition to its own souped up titles but Warner chose to go with GCC's designs instead.

 

 

drool. I'd love to see such a machine. I wonder what ever happened to the ones they worked on?

[Lynxpro]

 

 

drool. I'd love to see such a machine. I wonder what ever happened to the ones they worked on?

 

You'd have to ask him and Tod Fry(e). What he told me and everyone around just blew me away because I had heard the system Tod had worked on used 4 TIAs to independently draw one quarter of the screen and it was blazing fast. Maybe they actually did 2 systems, the 4 TIA system and then the GTIA+TIA+6502 running at, what, 3.58Mhz?

 

Then again, had Atari had GCC use the 2600-on-a-chip in the 7800 instead of the standard TIA, then theoretically, it could've been a 6502+MARIA+integrated 6507+TIA. Then again, the bus could've been bogged down had they not separated them.

[+sixersfan105]

For those still interested, DanthWader makes these and they are for sale in his/his wife's Etsy shop:

 

https://etsy.me/2mdUz1V

[Coleco]

My son printed one of these in his school lab for me for Christmas. It makes Robotron sooooo much better to play. Highly encourage everyone to get one of these. The prolines are pretty good for this game.

[+evg2000]

My son printed one of these in his school lab for me for Christmas. It makes Robotron sooooo much better to play. Highly encourage everyone to get one of these. The prolines are pretty good for this game.

I actually acquired some 3d printed versions that I have available in my sail thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/286474-vectrex-items-prices-lowered-7800-and-jaguar-added-us-shipping-only/

[Lynxpro]

For the record, the 3D Printed Ones that are available are not actually scanned from the Real McCoy. They are estimates of what they should've been.