+madman Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I played Ruiner for the first time tonight, I had really high expectations and it fell pretty short for me. After playing for some time I could never really figure out what I was supposed to be aiming for to activate the bonuses and such. I would just hit the flippers whenever the ball came near. The multi-ball view on the Ruiner table is so scaled out that it's almost pointless and multi-ball is one of the best parts of pinball games in real life. I haven't played it in probably close to 20 years, but I remember getting way more enjoyment out of Super Pinball Behind the Mask on SNES; the tables weren't as big, but you could see the entire table on screen and the targets were clearly defined against the play field graphics. It was an OK game to play for about an hour, but again I just never felt like I knew what the heck I was aiming for and the physics seemed way off. The various things to hit that couldn't happen in real pinball were cool, but as many chances as I gave the game, I just couldn't help but feel I was missing out on whatever people love so much. Am I missing out, or has this game just not aged well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 The game is a mixed bag. Some peope like it/hate it. The ball physics are because the designer says he leveraged the collision detection with the walls and bumpers to make the flipper mechanics. It was the designers first game of any kind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 You're not missing a thing madman! Trust your instincts on this. Game has not aged very well at all or was very good to begin with. As someone who loves pinball and literally grew up with it, Ruiner leaves a lot to be desired as a simulation, let alone a fun video pinball game. Still, I keep it in my collection because it is kinda/sorta unique. And it's a Jaguar pinball game after all. Give Alien Crush and Devil's Crush (Dragons Fury on the Genesis) on the TG-16 or PC-Engine a try if you want a silly fantasy/unrealistic pinball playing experience. Both of those games get it more "right" than Ruiner. Hell, even Sonic Spinball on the Genny is more fun. Jaguar Pinball Fantasies is much more playable (really, only two tables excel: Partyland and Stones and Bones), so if you're hankering for some decent pinball action on the Jag, PF is your game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Also, PF has this ridiculously amazing opening track for its main menu: Anyway, I often just leave my Jag running in the background with this running Edited July 22, 2014 by NeoGeoNinja 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yeah, Ruiner isn't very good. It has some cool concepts, scaling, and theming, but the flipper physics pretty much break the game. It's not really worth bothering with. Pinball Fantasies is a much better pinball game, with better physics and more traditional goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Hi. I'm a big fan of pinball and am currently working on collecting full sets of pinball games for each cart-based console I own, including imports which didn't see a US release. Because Pinball is relatively niche, there's not a lot of games to collect, so it's an easy goal. Currently I have Atari 2600, NES/FC, Genesis/MD, TG-16 (Hu-Card only), SNES complete, possibly with the exception of a couple obscure SFC games. Gameboy/Color/Advance have a crapton of holes currently. 7800, SMS, and N64 apparently have nothing that I know of, sadly. Can't comment on Jag as I don't own one. The Pokemon pinballs and other Game Boy cash-ins are lackluster, but the only one so far that really sucks a turd is Pinball Quest NES. 16-bit Pinball sims hit the sweet spot for me. Alien Crush, Devil's Crush, and Time Warp on the TG-16 are excellent. So are Dragon's Fury and Dragon's Revenge for Genesis. Also Jaki Crush for Super Famicom is awesome as well. It's a sequel to Devil's Crush for the TG-16. Also try out Zen Pinball and Pinball Arcade for modern platforms. You won't be disappointed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Hi. I'm a big fan of pinball and am currently working on collecting full sets of pinball games for each cart-based console I own, including imports which didn't see a US release. Because Pinball is relatively niche, there's not a lot of games to collect, so it's an easy goal. Currently I have Atari 2600, NES/FC, Genesis/MD, TG-16 (Hu-Card only), SNES complete, possibly with the exception of a couple obscure SFC games. Gameboy/Color/Advance have a crapton of holes currently. 7800, SMS, and N64 apparently have nothing that I know of, sadly. Can't comment on Jag as I don't own one. You're missing the two best console digital pinball games out there--Last Gladiators and Necronomicon for the Saturn (the later is import-only). You should get on that. By the way, when are you going to buy a real machine (or three)? Or have you already done that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevincal Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 My faves are pinball nes and pinball fantasies jag. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 You're missing the two best console digital pinball games out there--Last Gladiators and Necronomicon for the Saturn (the later is import-only). You should get on that. By the way, when are you going to buy a real machine (or three)? Or have you already done that? If I got a real machine, it would definitely be Bride of Pinbot or High Speed. But alas, I'm a poor guy still living with his mom who's barely got space for a few consoles and a bunch of games... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I can't believe what I'm hearing on here.. I think Ruiner has way more depth than Pinball Fantasies. I enjoy both but the tables are just way bigger and more detailed compared to PF, which feels like a kids game in comparison. Just keep playing it, and I promise it will grow on you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bcombee Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I actually know the programmer of Ruiner Pinball, Scott Corley. He went on to develop some great Palm OS software under the company Red Mercury, with ports over to Windows and iOS. I've not played it in a while, but I remember liking the game, although I'd not put it on the same tier as the Alien Crush/Devil's Crush games. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I can't believe what I'm hearing on here.. I think Ruiner has way more depth than Pinball Fantasies. I enjoy both but the tables are just way bigger and more detailed compared to PF, which feels like a kids game in comparison. Just keep playing it, and I promise it will grow on you. I don't think you understand what equates to depth in a pinball game though: Rules, goals, and actually achieving those goals. Everything else falls into the "gimmick" or "style" categories. Sure, Ruiner has elaborate tables and what-not, but doing the later I just mentioned is nearly impossible in the game, no thanks to busted/broken physics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper_Eye Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I enjoy both games. When I'm in the mood for pinball though I fire up "Stones n' Bones" in Pinball Fantasies. It's the best pinball table on Jag. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I discussed the whole Ruiner vs PFantasies thing recently, elsewhere on the site. I tend(ed) to be in the Ruiner > PF camp. However... After spending some serious, quality time with PF a couple of weeks ago, I now have to retract my original feelings and opinions and say that, although I prefer the look and idea behind Ruiner's tables etc (much more akin to the PCE titles), PF - overall - is a much more balanced and enjoyable experience. I'm also in the Stones 'n' Bones camp. That table is amazing! When I went back to Ruiner, I really struggled with the broken Flipper mechanics and found it near impossible to reach certain, essential parts of the table as a result 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 You're missing the two best console digital pinball games out there--Last Gladiators and Necronomicon for the Saturn (the later is import-only). You should get on that. 1000x this. Especially Necronomicon. It's fantastic... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I enjoy both games. When I'm in the mood for pinball though I fire up "Stones n' Bones" in Pinball Fantasies. It's the best pinball table on Jag. Agreed, actually I probably spend equal time with Partyland too. I've played these games so much, yet never achieved any of the major goals of the tables. Never spelled Party all the way, never lit up all the ghosts in Stones n Bones etc...you would think I would have given up after 20 years, but they are just fun to play. Ruiner, it just doesn't feel right, the physics are totally screwed up. I enjoy it for having great themes, like the cold war/nuclear war theme is awesome, with rocket launchers for flippers. It has cool elements, but it doesn't play a mean pinball. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 I'll have to dig out PF tonight and compare. Maybe it's just that I'm turning into an old man, but on Ruiner I really had a hard time like I said figuring out what I'm supposed to aim for. Heck, even when I knew what I was aiming for, the garbage physics prevented me from hitting the targets. I'll report back after checking out PF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I actually know the programmer of Ruiner Pinball, Scott Corley. He went on to develop some great Palm OS software under the company Red Mercury, with ports over to Windows and iOS. I've not played it in a while, but I remember liking the game, although I'd not put it on the same tier as the Alien Crush/Devil's Crush games. You met him personally? Thats really cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willard Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) I'm not a big fan of pinball video games but still really liked Ruiner Pinball and put it in my top jaguar games. It has a lot of style, and I like the multi-table design... the tables are pretty busy and the traveling between sections adds to that feeling that there's always a lot of activity in the game. I think you have to keep in mind that no real effort seems to have been made for this to be a simulation. There are a few particular spots where this can get a little annoying, but overall I found the physics to be reasonable. If the game was graded on physics alone I think the score would be on the lower end of the spectrum (even lower if graded it against accurate pinball physics) but I think they work for the game and I thought it was good as a whole. There are objectives (defcon levels in the ruiner table), and you can win the game. I've completed it once and (spoiler) I was a little disappointed that you just get reset to the intial defcon level. I was hoping for the whole table to explode like in Volfied or something... but it did not. Edited July 23, 2014 by Willard 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Hi. I'm a big fan of pinball and am currently working on collecting full sets of pinball games for each cart-based console I own, including imports which didn't see a US release. Because Pinball is relatively niche, there's not a lot of games to collect, so it's an easy goal. Currently I have Atari 2600, NES/FC, Genesis/MD, TG-16 (Hu-Card only), SNES complete, possibly with the exception of a couple obscure SFC games. Gameboy/Color/Advance have a crapton of holes currently. 7800, SMS, and N64 apparently have nothing that I know of, sadly. While not technically a standalone game, Casino Games (or something like that, it's a Casino game) on the SMS has a pinball minigame. What the heck pinball is doing in a casino game, I don't know, but it's in there. The SMS also has a port of Sonic Spinball, if you count that, but it was obviously released later in the system's life. I feel like I have this for the Game Gear, but I can't be sure. The closest thing on the N64 is one of those army toy games (I believe there were 3 total) has a pinball machine level, but you don't actually play pinball, you just run around on a pinball machine IIRC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Well, I've got Sonic Spinball on the Genesis. I don't really feel like re-buying it for the Master system unless the game is completely unique like with SMS Sonic 1. If it's just the same game with better graphics and sound, I'll stick to Genesis. BTW, I'm using a PowerBase Mini (available from Stone Age Gamer) to play SMS games on my Genny and it works like a charm. There's also some Japanese Pachinko released for like every console with their own gimmicky controllers that I have no interest in. Also, if I had a Saturn, I would be searching for those games mentioned earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Also, if I had a Saturn, I would be searching for those games mentioned earlier. Instead of buying other crappy pinball games, you should make buying a Saturn priority number 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I player ruiner and pinball fantasies last night. The physics don't feel messed up to me in ruiner. What is it doing wrong exactly? You hit the ball with the flipper and it behaves more or less like PF. Also I don't think goals are any easier to achieve in PF, I didn't completer any words or do anything too crazy in either game last night. Both are fun, but my wholly subjective opinion is that I still enjoy Ruiner more by just a smidge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Scott Corley on his own flipper mechanics in Ruiner: THAT game was another very cool development experience - the game gets criticisms, if you ask my wife what really drove me nuts about the game (she was my girlfriend at the time), she'll say "the flippers"... I had two ways to do the flippers, one which leveraged the collision detection of the rest of the board, and one which would have worked much better time constraints left version one in place. What can I say, it was my first game. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Scott Corley on his own flipper mechanics in Ruiner: Hmm..doesn't seem that bad to me. I think I just need to keep playing them both I'm sure I'll notice something eventually. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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