Andromeda Stardust Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 @Austin: I like Sega but there's not enough in the Saturn library to justify a purchase. I'm not gonna buy a console just for two games. I've got too many consoles as is and I'm more interested in collecting for cart systems as opposed to disc. @JagChris: Maybe someone can hack ruiner to fix the faulty physics engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 I got into about a half hour of Pinball Fantasies last night and right off the bat I felt the physics were better than Ruiner. The tables not quite as interesting, but overall easier to see what the targets are and to hit them due to the flippers acting like flippers. I realize I have minimal time into both games, but so far PF is my preference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Here's an older discussion I started comparing the two games: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/170357-pinball-fantasies-vs-ruiner-pinball/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Here's an older discussion I started comparing the two games: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/170357-pinball-fantasies-vs-ruiner-pinball/ Your thoughts are pretty in line with mine regarding these two. At first I thought maybe I just sucked at Ruiner because I found it impossible to hit the few targets I could find. Seemed I mainly ended up hitting birds and bombs (or were those planes?). With PF I find the learning curve equal to that of an actual pin. The only tables I played last night were the Stones and Bones and the driving one, the latter of which I found the playfield graphics to be a little bit laughable, but still enjoyable. Edited July 24, 2014 by madman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 At least Ruiner was an original game, and not just another 16-bit port 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 OK, spent some more time with these two tonight. PF is, in my opinion, the superior game. I put a good amount of time in on PF, then switched over to Ruiner. I truly felt like I was just hitting the flippers randomly every time the ball came nearby. The few targets I did try to hit were kind of ruined by the ball bouncing off the planes. The two-frame animation of the flippers didn't help much either and again the physics just feel way off. After a few games of haphazardly hitting the flippers I ended up with great scores without knowing what the heck I was doing, it was just luck rather than me making a conscious effort to aim at any given part of the playfield. I do find it pretty progressive for the time that there are two icons you can use to make your high score initials spell out "KICK ASS". Maybe I just don't get "fantasy" pinball games and perhaps that's why this game doesn't appeal to me. All said, it's still a playable Jaguar game, I just found Pinball Fantasies more to my liking due to its realistic physics and playfield. PF will keep me coming back for the fun and I can see Ruiner keeping me coming back thinking, "Maybe I'm missing something here." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) @Austin: I like Sega but there's not enough in the Saturn library to justify a purchase. I'm not gonna buy a console just for two games. I've got too many consoles as is and I'm more interested in collecting for cart systems as opposed to disc. I'm a Jag fan first and then a Saturn fan but I gotta say there is a ton of good stuff out there for the Saturn. Think about what you are looking for and then check the available Saturn library or ask around at others. You might be surprised. Edited July 24, 2014 by JagChris 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I'm a Jag fan first and then a Saturn fan but I gotta say there is a ton of good stuff out there for the Saturn. Think about what you are looking for and then check the available Saturn library or ask around at others. You might be surprised. Should be incredibly surprised if he starts dipping into the import library as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 OK, spent some more time with these two tonight. PF is, in my opinion, the superior game. I put a good amount of time in on PF, then switched over to Ruiner. I truly felt like I was just hitting the flippers randomly every time the ball came nearby. The few targets I did try to hit were kind of ruined by the ball bouncing off the planes. The two-frame animation of the flippers didn't help much either and again the physics just feel way off. After a few games of haphazardly hitting the flippers I ended up with great scores without knowing what the heck I was doing, it was just luck rather than me making a conscious effort to aim at any given part of the playfield. I do find it pretty progressive for the time that there are two icons you can use to make your high score initials spell out "KICK ASS". Maybe I just don't get "fantasy" pinball games and perhaps that's why this game doesn't appeal to me. All said, it's still a playable Jaguar game, I just found Pinball Fantasies more to my liking due to its realistic physics and playfield. PF will keep me coming back for the fun and I can see Ruiner keeping me coming back thinking, "Maybe I'm missing something here." You pretty much nailed it with this analysis. Despite the two games being in slightly different pinball genres (one is more of the Devil's Crush sort, while the other models tables after common real-world machine designs), they both feature similar goals and traditional pinball rules. The difference is, Pinball Fantasies gives you the proper tools to work with to control the ball, get better and consistently make your shots, to eventually meet the high-scoring goals. Ruiner doesn't, with its wildly inconsistent flippers and wonky physics. On the Tower table in particular the ball bounces slightly off the ridges on the flippers, which leads to inconsistent aim. However, inconsistency should be the player's fault, not the game's, and that's where Pinball Fantasies gets it right: If you miss, it's probably your fault. Ruiner however doesn't even give the player the tools to play well to begin with. It's sad because I like everything else about the game (table designs, the dark themes, the goals, etc). The developers just happened to nerf the most important part of the game--the flippers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Westphal Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I bought Ruiner because the vgc said it was better than PF. I disagree. The overall package, tables, music etc., are much better than Ruiner. Ruiner uses a proprietary c-compiler that many wish they could get their hands on, though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I bought Ruiner because the vgc said it was better than PF. I disagree. The overall package, tables, music etc., are much better than Ruiner. Ruiner uses a proprietary c-compiler that many wish they could get their hands on, though. That's not exactly true we found out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I quite like Ruiner. But nothing can touch Dragons Fury (",) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guiltl3ss Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Dunno if its good or not, but I love Crüe Ball on my Genny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulBlazer Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 These days when I want my pinball fix I fire up either the Williams or Gotlib Collections for Xbox 360 or the tables in Pinball FX 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 I got back into some PF tonight, I remember posting this thread, but forgot the details. Anyway, as I was playing I thought, "this really has an Amiga look to it" and sure enough, it was originally released on the Amiga as it sounds like a few people on here know. A great game to pick up and play for a quick session, I don't know that I'd called it a "must have" title and it doesn't at all scream 64-bit (or even 32-bit), but it's pretty fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I got back into some PF tonight, I remember posting this thread, but forgot the details. Anyway, as I was playing I thought, "this really has an Amiga look to it" and sure enough, it was originally released on the Amiga as it sounds like a few people on here know. A great game to pick up and play for a quick session, I don't know that I'd called it a "must have" title and it doesn't at all scream 64-bit (or even 32-bit), but it's pretty fun. Ball physics much better on the Amiga and PC (DOS) actually. Did the ST ever see any of these 21st Century pinball releases? Don't think so… if not, why not? Jaguar version too stiff with limited ball travel math - but still a great Jag game. </rationalization> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I'm kind of surprised by the comments. To each his own, I guess, but I find Ruiner much more to my liking than PF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin222 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 My faves are pinball nes and pinball fantasies jag. Nes Pinball is so awful but it's also strangely addicting. It just makes you feel like you have no life when you play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serblander Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I'm not a big fan of pinball video games but still really liked Ruiner Pinball ... I'm in the same camp as well. Not only am i not a big fan of pinball (with the exception of the Vikings table on PS1 version of True Pinball) but i'm generally crap at them as well. For whatever reason though, I really liked Ruiner Pinball, particularly the triple storey table. Coincidentally, i just played Ruiner last week to show a friend. He loved it and is looking out for a cart to buy for himself now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripled79 Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Just had the game crash on me. Right in the middle of a fairly good game too. Might have crashed because of a multi ball? The music kept playing along with a rolling ball sound effect. A bit weird. I have to hard reset the console now. Sniff... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Editorb Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 Ruiner was one of the games that I enjoyed in Jag's life, both in gameplay and raw-power coolness. (Others are probably usual suspects: AvP, Defender 2000, Irony Soldier, Missile Command 3D, T2K. And, yeah, that was it for me at the time.) I read interview with developer (or programmer or designer or some such), who said there were two ways to do the collision detection for the flippers: the right way, and the way he did it. Overall, I really dig the graphics, sounds, music, gameplay, and designs. It's harder than crud and I can't get very far. I may have reached Defcon 2 at some point, but it felt more like luck. I took Pinball Fantasies for dreck back in the daze. I got fairly into it for a time last year. It's fun and has more realistic physics ... although I'm not sure how realistic the physics could be in Ruiner as experimenting with destroying planes, tanks, and people with a steel ball might prove difficult. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripled79 Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 I lucked out and finally got a copy on eBay for a decent price. Must have been a "gently" used cart as there were hardly ant high scores on the table. Unless the previous owner wiped the EEPROM. Now I just need to find a manual... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayik Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 1 hour ago, tripled79 said: I lucked out and finally got a copy on eBay for a decent price. Must have been a "gently" used cart as there were hardly ant high scores on the table. Unless the previous owner wiped the EEPROM. Now I just need to find a manual... Ruiner Pinball manual is on AA here: https://atariage.com/software_page.php?SoftwareLabelID=1127 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlidellMan Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 I noticed people mentioning Pinball Dreams & Pinball Fantasies in this thread, but what about Pinball Illusions? Olaf Gustafsson's music in this is amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripled79 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 On 7/3/2021 at 3:30 PM, SlidellMan said: I noticed people mentioning Pinball Dreams & Pinball Fantasies in this thread, but what about Pinball Illusions? Olaf Gustafsson's music in this is amazing. I wouldn't mind getting Dreams or Illusions on Jaguar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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