Kyle22 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Hi Guys, I found this: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.atari.8bit/488g3gpnm20 and was wondering if it is really that easy. Looking at the 816 and 02 pinouts, it looks like more than 1 jumper may be necessary. I don't have the schematic in front of me, and I'm online with cell phone now, so I don't have easy access to it. I have a 65c802 in it now, and it works great, but no way to access linear RAM with the 802. Does anyone have any info on this? -Kyle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 It looks like it will work if you have a CPU board with a 6502 instead of the Atari 6502C. Linear memory may be a bit more work... Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXG/MNX Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I got the sweet16 upgrade its a 65816 very easy will look for the schematic just a few wires. Works nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 I got the sweet16 upgrade its a 65816 very easy will look for the schematic just a few wires. Works nice. The FTe Sweet 16 replaces the C014806 Sally chip in newer 800's and XL/XE's. It will not work in a standard 6502 socket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 It looks like it will work if you have a CPU board with a 6502 instead of the Atari 6502C. Linear memory may be a bit more work... Bob Thanks Bob. Now I gotta try it. I'll start on a 400 first so I don't take any chances with my Incognito 800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 A 400 with 512K of linear memory - cool... Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricortes Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 : This is all you have to do. Remove and replace the cpu, and place a Jumper: wire at A303 pin36 to Z302 pin 5. Then the 800 becomes 16 bit. A303 pin 36 => 6502 CPU NC pin. 65C816 BE or Bus Enable. Z302 -7474<74LS74?> pin 5 => !(R/!W) signal. From the WDC web site: "The Bus Enable input signal allows external control of the Address and Data Buffers, as well as the RWB signal. With Bus Enable high, the RWB and Address Buffers are active. The Data/Address Buffers are active during the first half of every cycle and the second half of a write cycle. When BE is low, these buffers are disabled. Bus Enable is an asynchronous signal." There's some special mojo going on if that works. It would/could/should sorta work because the way the !HALT signal is sent into the flip flop I think. Whenever the !HALT line is asserted the R/!W line should be steady state since !HALT is fed into the flip flop data pin. I have my 65C02 800 and a 65C816 laying out where I can put my hands on it. It should be something I could get to in 10 minutes but my current hobby rate means it will probably take me a week. Good luck putting it in a 400, I will get to it eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 I only meant that I am going to *try* it on a 400 so I don't damage my 800 if something goes wrong. What 'd really like to see is for Lotharek to make a replacement CPU card that combines Rapidus and VBXE on a single card. That would be the perfect companion for the Incognito. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) : This is all you have to do. Remove and replace the cpu, and place a Jumper : wire at A303 pin36 to Z302 pin 5. Then the 800 becomes 16 bit. A303 pin 36 => 6502 CPU NC pin. 65C816 BE or Bus Enable. Z302 -7474<74LS74?> pin 5 => !(R/!W) signal. From the WDC web site: "The Bus Enable input signal allows external control of the Address and Data Buffers, as well as the RWB signal. With Bus Enable high, the RWB and Address Buffers are active. The Data/Address Buffers are active during the first half of every cycle and the second half of a write cycle. When BE is low, these buffers are disabled. Bus Enable is an asynchronous signal." There's some special mojo going on if that works. It would/could/should sorta work because the way the !HALT signal is sent into the flip flop I think. Whenever the !HALT line is asserted the R/!W line should be steady state since !HALT is fed into the flip flop data pin. I have my 65C02 800 and a 65C816 laying out where I can put my hands on it. It should be something I could get to in 10 minutes but my current hobby rate means it will probably take me a week. Good luck putting it in a 400, I will get to it eventually. Is there someplace to learn about cycles, buffers, signals, function of the A8? Service manuals don't have much about the fundamentals of the A8. I have a couple 800XL mb that I want to repair. It would be nice to know the powerup sequence of events that I could follow with a logic probe and oscilloscope. Edited October 9, 2014 by russg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Z302 pin 5 is the latched HALT line. It works. You can add the wire and it still works with the old 6502 CPU. And, it seems to work with a 65816 - BXL and Star Raiders look OK. This is in a 400. Didn't try an 800 but I expect the same. Easy way to play with 65816 op-codes, anyway. Linear memory would take some m/b wiring for A14, A15, 02, and a new memory card. Not so easy. Bob : This is all you have to do. Remove and replace the cpu, and place a Jumper: wire at A303 pin36 to Z302 pin 5. Then the 800 becomes 16 bit. A303 pin 36 => 6502 CPU NC pin. 65C816 BE or Bus Enable. Z302 -7474<74LS74?> pin 5 => !(R/!W) signal. From the WDC web site: "The Bus Enable input signal allows external control of the Address and Data Buffers, as well as the RWB signal. With Bus Enable high, the RWB and Address Buffers are active. The Data/Address Buffers are active during the first half of every cycle and the second half of a write cycle. When BE is low, these buffers are disabled. Bus Enable is an asynchronous signal." There's some special mojo going on if that works. It would/could/should sorta work because the way the !HALT signal is sent into the flip flop I think. Whenever the !HALT line is asserted the R/!W line should be steady state since !HALT is fed into the flip flop data pin. I have my 65C02 800 and a 65C816 laying out where I can put my hands on it. It should be something I could get to in 10 minutes but my current hobby rate means it will probably take me a week. Good luck putting it in a 400, I will get to it eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 I can't find a pinout of the 800 RAM card slots anywhere, but I would think all missing signals needed for linear RAM should be on the Incognito PBI connector. Ideas? Yes... No... Could this be done as a companion card for Incognito, or am I crazy What I really want is a replacement CPU card that has the equivalent of Rapidus and VBXE on it, but for now, I'm thinking about how to do this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Rapidus and VBXE? Yes, well,, good luck with that. That's a lot of hardware. The signals you need for linear memory are on the m/b. You just need a few jumpers to the RAM card socket. With a new memory card, you could make a 400/800 into a 65816 with 512K of linear memory. It would only run at 1.79mhz, but that's enough for program development and it would be compatible with the XL high-speed machines. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 I am kind of hoping that Lotharek and others will appreciate the possibilities of this and consider producing such a card. The VBXE should be possible now, just run a 40 pin DIP pin header ribbon cable from the ANTIC socket to the VBXE board stuffed in the extra space inside the bottom of the 800 case. Same with Rapidus in the C014806 socket (I'll need to get a newer CPU card for that). I think it's possible now, but it would be an ugly solution. A card with all this in one would be awesome, especially for Incognito owners, especially since SDX can see linear RAM. I have a 65c802 in there now, and it works great with the new instructions, but I want to explore the world of linear RAM Speed and video are always nice too. Basically, I want to have a turbocharged MARS-8 sort of thing (done right), no offense Mike. (You were on the right track). Just an idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 SDX can see linear RAM? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricortes Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Is there someplace to learn about cycles, buffers, signals, function of the A8? Service manuals don't have much about the fundamentals of the A8. I have a couple 800XL mb that I want to repair. It would be nice to know the powerup sequence of events that I could follow with a logic probe and oscilloscope. I haven't seen the Sams photofacts for the computer series, I just had the disk 1050 drive one. Sams had a lot of wave forms/oscilloscope pics and methods for the 1050 anyway. IMHO, they are better in detail then the other sources like the Technical Ref. They don't go into details with the why and howto like an instructional manual, just info on diagnosis and fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricortes Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 ;Z302 pin 5 is the latched HALT line. It works. It is the inverted HALT line me thinks. Way to many burnt out brain cells for me and no 65C816 data sheets. The working part of the hack makes more sense to me that way if the 65C816 BE signal becomes active when the system isn't HALTed. John Harris made some instructional posts a few years back when the company he was associated with did a 65C816 system. I think the memory move he posted was only 21 bytes vs. the ~40ish for a standard 6502. I know just using the 65C02 instruction set allows you to write ~5% tighter code. Overall the lower current, reduced code size and resultant faster execution just for adding a jumper and $10 processor seems like a real win. I think B&C has/had some of the old style boards for people that want to revert their 800 back to 6502B/65C816 for ~$15. There's a surprising lack of 65C816 assembly language instructional information. I would have thought assembly language subroutines would be all over the place what with the SNES, Apple IIGS, et al. I'm reminded of when ID did Castle Wolfenstein 3D for the SNES. Story went something like: They found a C compiler for a IIGS<Orca?> and developed the cartridge with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Western Design Center has the data sheets for free and a programming manual for $10. I D/L the manual for free some years ago but I can't find the file now. (story of my life....) The 65816 (in native mode, I believe) has a move character instruction. Yes, BE (Bus Enable) is active (high) when HALT is not active. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russg Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I haven't seen the Sams photofacts for the computer series, I just had the disk 1050 drive one. Sams had a lot of wave forms/oscilloscope pics and methods for the 1050 anyway. IMHO, they are better in detail then the other sources like the Technical Ref. They don't go into details with the why and howto like an instructional manual, just info on diagnosis and fix. I have Sams for the 800xl. It has wave forms on the schematics. The thing is, I have a working 800XL right next to the busted one. I can compare waveforms on the working one with the busted one. I also use a logic probe. For instance, I'm pretty sure this is significant, but I don't know what it means. Pins two of three of my drams are low (the first, second and fifth drams from the bottom). All the other pin two drams are high in the busted one. On my good 800xl all pins two are pulse. I get high pins all over the place that are supposed to be pulse. But I don't know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 SDX can see linear RAM? Bob In Altirra it does. I would think it would on real hardware as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 SDX can see linear RAM, that's about all it does, at the moment. The memory allocation routines don't take it into account at all, but this may change... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Regular SDX cart does not see linear memory. How does one get the 4.46 version? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=spartados+x -Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Drac030's MultiBasic also can access linear memory, but only as DPEEK and DPOKE, IIRC. Still, very easy to use and reasonably fast. MultiBasic will definitely run from MyDos, and probably Dos 2.0. Edit: Actually in looking at the docs, it can do a lot more than just DPEEK and DPOKE. And it's as easy to use as Turbo Basic XL, but must use a 65816 OS. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 http://sdx.atari8.info/index.php or http://www.spartados.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricortes Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Western Design Center has the data sheets for free and a programming manual for $10. I D/L the manual for free some years ago but I can't find the file now. (story of my life....) The 65816 (in native mode, I believe) has a move character instruction. Yes, BE (Bus Enable) is active (high) when HALT is not active. Bob hehe, old age is hitting me with a vengeance but so far I haven't done anything antisocial like forget to put on my pants before going out in public. I found the manual you are referring to, I think. http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/images/7/76/Programmanual.pdf I also found one of the better blurbs Mr. Harris did on the 65C816 http://www.umich.edu/~archive/atari/8bit/Newitems/notes816.txt Lot's of good tips and facts in John's blurb. Does something like 10 iterations of The Sieve in the equivalent of 1.31 secs which is about 5x the speed of Action!. He even patches Textpro for the new move instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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