SIO2 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 (edited) Just for verification before I solder anything, can someone please confirm this is where I need to attach the 22uF cap? (View from bottom of PCB) Concerto Capacitor Fix.JPG If it were mine, I probably would attach wires at the pads where the pokey pins come through the board and shrink tube the wires to the cap leads (observe the polarity for the cap). Or at least shrink tube the cap leads if they will span the gap between the pins. I think you have the correct pins identified. Edited October 29, 2016 by SIO2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 If it were mine, I probably would attach wires at the pads where the pokey pins come through the board and shrink tube the wires to the cap leads (observe the polarity for the cap). I added the 22uF cap using some scrap insulation on the component leads. No hookup wire needed. Solder directly to the back of the board where the socket is. The presence of the cap doesn't seem to fix anything with regards to loading ROMs. And yes, I observed the polarity. Weird almost every 7800 ROM I try (homebrew or bitd) seems to either crash immediately or have severe bugs in it. I don't believe all the ROMs I have on the SD card could possibly be bad. Anyone else having issues actually playing games on it? Oftentimes the title screen will load but then the system goes FUBAR when you attempt to actually play the game or wait until attract mode starts up. BTW, my Atari 7800 is an A1 serial without the expansion port. I don't really feel like opening it up atm but if someone really needs to know what PCB revision I've got under the hood, I'll pop open the case and take a look... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperboy Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 @Stardust Can you post a pic of your board with cap soldered on please? Sent from my non beer holding hand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 @Stardust Can you post a pic of your board with cap soldered on please? Sent from my non beer holding hand. Figured I should have snapped a photo before closing it back up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Some of the game ROMs that actually boot. I tried Pacman 320 Pokey again (twice) but no luck getting it to start. Earlier I posted a screenshot from one of the few times it actually booted. Attempts to reproduce the glitch on video failed. I also earlier managed to get past the title screen in Ms Pacman. When I did, I was able to pass through walls. Here's a [unlisted] video test of some common bitd 7800 games plus a few homebrews and how they all fail in short order. The games that actually load appear to all be corrupted in some capacity. Video is currently uploading, and should be live in a couple hours. I'm going to bed now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Some of the game ROMs that actually boot. I tried Pacman 320 Pokey again (twice) but no luck getting it to start. Earlier I posted a screenshot from one of the few times it actually booted. Attempts to reproduce the glitch on video failed. I also earlier managed to get past the title screen in Ms Pacman. When I did, I was able to pass through walls. Here's a [unlisted] video test of some common bitd 7800 games plus a few homebrews and how they all fail in short order. The games that actually load appear to all be corrupted in some capacity. Video is currently uploading, and should be live in a couple hours. I'm going to bed now... Do you have another 7800? If not I can send you one of mine to try, and/or another Concerto to try to determine the issue here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Do you have another 7800? If not I can send you one of mine to try, and/or another Concerto to try to determine the issue here. I do not have another 7800 to test and shipping a loaner console two ways would be expensive. A bubble mailer to send back the Concerto would certainly be cheaper than shipping a console. My 7800 (A/V mod installed by Best Electronics) has played every 2600/7800 homebrew or back in the day game I've ever thrown at it flawlessly. It's almost as if the flash chip or RAM in the Concerto is corrupted somehow as I doubt almost every ROM could be bad. Pulling the Pokey chip or adding the 22uF cap doesn't fix anything so I've ruled that out as cause. I'm currently using the old 2Gb SD card from my Harmony cart (purchased in 2012) and I flashed the newest Concerto BIOS posted here which appears to be the same v0.5 that was installed initially. I haven't tried a "freshly formatted" SD card yet either but I will tomorrow. I don't want to erase this card as I've got the Harmony ROMs set up exactly how I like. Most non-DPC 2600 games work just fine. And yes, I've cleaned the contacts... To do list: Try a freshly formatted SD card. Reflash BIOS. I could send back the Concerto PCB for further testing as you claim to have multiple 7800s. If it exhibits crashing and corruption on those then we know it's not my system. The glitching/crashes are just too bizarre for words which is why I made the video. FYI the youtube vid I linked is unlisted so it shouldn't show up on my channel or in searches. I'll remove it if the culprit turns out to be a bad cart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I do not have another 7800 to test and shipping a loaner console two ways would be expensive. A bubble mailer to send back the Concerto would certainly be cheaper than shipping a console. My 7800 (A/V mod installed by Best Electronics) has played every 2600/7800 homebrew or back in the day game I've ever thrown at it flawlessly. It's almost as if the flash chip or RAM in the Concerto is corrupted somehow as I doubt almost every ROM could be bad. Pulling the Pokey chip or adding the 22uF cap doesn't fix anything so I've ruled that out as cause. I'm currently using the old 2Gb SD card from my Harmony cart (purchased in 2012) and I flashed the newest Concerto BIOS posted here which appears to be the same v0.5 that was installed initially. I haven't tried a "freshly formatted" SD card yet either but I will tomorrow. I don't want to erase this card as I've got the Harmony ROMs set up exactly how I like. Most non-DPC 2600 games work just fine. And yes, I've cleaned the contacts... To do list: Try a freshly formatted SD card. Reflash BIOS. I could send back the Concerto PCB for further testing as you claim to have multiple 7800s. If it exhibits crashing and corruption on those then we know it's not my system. The glitching/crashes are just too bizarre for words which is why I made the video. FYI the youtube vid I linked is unlisted so it shouldn't show up on my channel or in searches. I'll remove it if the culprit turns out to be a bad cart. Could be a bad chip on your Concerto, and I can send you another, but there is always the chance that it will work 100% when I get it back, on all of my systems. The reality seems to be that 7800s are very fickle, and getting everything to work right with all flavors of them has been a challenge. In an attempt to find all of the hardware variations (or whatever the issue is) that may be out there, I have twelve 7800s already, and may end up with many more when this is all done. If it is indeed some incompatibility with your 7800 then I want it, I will buy it from you and/or trade for one of mine that is known to work so I can make Concerto work with it. I would pay for all shipping costs both ways. Really, I would just want the board inside so if we wanted to do that, shipping may be reasonable. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Chiming in because I read this... Could be a bad chip on your Concerto, and I can send you another, but there is always the chance that it will work 100% when I get it back, on all of my systems. The reality seems to be that 7800s are very fickle, and getting everything to work right with all flavors of them has been a challenge. In an attempt to find all of the hardware variations (or whatever the issue is) that may be out there, I have twelve 7800s already, and may end up with many more when this is all done.If it is indeed some incompatibility with your 7800 then I want it, I will buy it from you and/or trade for one of mine that is known to work so I can make Concerto work with it. I would pay for all shipping costs both ways. Really, I would just want the board inside so if we wanted to do that, shipping may be reasonable. ...and gratitude is the first thing that comes to mind. It's not the only thing, just the latest in what is a legacy with the AA community. Really appreciate your dedication and work ethic, Fred. A true labor of love. Thank you. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 The issue in looking at the videos Stardust posted is happening during the loading phase to the flash. Wonder if a delay or something to that effect might be needed? It is also similar to the issues that TurboEverdrive owners were having with region and av modded TG16s and the like in that they could sometimes get a game to load and then it would crash or nothing at all. Turns out it is essentially a power issue where not quite enough current was making it to the TED during the flashing stage and it was corrupting the load. Not sure what changes Krizz made to the ver 2+ boards but it was to supposedly address that. I could be completely off on this, just what I'm seeing from the video as an observation. It is also worth noting that I'm having issues with my AVox+ resetting itself during dungeon stalker and only when the wizard shows up at the end of the levels. I believe that to be a power related issue and am going to try and replace the 7805 in my 7800 with a 1amp output version to see if it helps. Will also try adding a 100uf cap to the +5 and ground off the controller 2 joystick port as the next step. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Really appreciate your dedication and work ethic, Fred. A true labor of love. Thank you. 100% agreed. I was excited when I heard about the Concerto, partly because of the new device itself, but also because I knew Fred has a history resolving squirrely hardware issues. We could certainly use his eyes on the 7800 compatibility issues. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I am 100% confident in my purchase!! One of the great 7800 people who stands behind their work no matter how difficult the issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Could be a bad chip on your Concerto, and I can send you another, but there is always the chance that it will work 100% when I get it back, on all of my systems. The reality seems to be that 7800s are very fickle, and getting everything to work right with all flavors of them has been a challenge. In an attempt to find all of the hardware variations (or whatever the issue is) that may be out there, I have twelve 7800s already, and may end up with many more when this is all done. If it is indeed some incompatibility with your 7800 then I want it, I will buy it from you and/or trade for one of mine that is known to work so I can make Concerto work with it. I would pay for all shipping costs both ways. Really, I would just want the board inside so if we wanted to do that, shipping may be reasonable. My unit is a Best unit with factory installed AV mod. If I exchange it with you, I'd want to receive another 7800 with AV output capability in return. I suspect the game ROMs are getting corrupted somehow when the Concerto copies them into memory. I can try sending the Concerto back to you first (I also have a mem card with the ROMs on them if you need to test them). If you don't find any issues with any of your consoles, I should send my 7800 PCB for you to look at. Thanks for looking into this for me. I've never had my 7800 refuse to load any 7800 or 2600 homebrew or back in the day game I've attempted to play on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 BTW, my Atari 7800 is an A1 serial without the expansion port. I don't really feel like opening it up atm but if someone really needs to know what PCB revision I've got under the hood, I'll pop open the case and take a look... Does it say made in China or made in Taiwan on the serial number sticker? Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Does it say made in China or made in Taiwan on the serial number sticker? Mitch I'm at my fiance's right now. Will look at it tomorrow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoquickcapri Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Has anyone tried the Concerto on a PAL console? I tried it with a French Peritel model and I don't even get a start screen. Is Pal supported and if not will it be added? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everett1954 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I also have some problems with my Concerto....I want to narrow it down a bit before I post more but it upon repowering it it will give me the Concerto V.05 screen then boot into a blank menu screen with page 000 of 000 on it. Sometimes and sometimes i get my populated menu. A lot of game freezing and just hanging. I have .91 firmware. Is that the latest or do I need to do the posted one here? I am using a 4GB class 10 SD card and all the roms work fine with emulators. I have not installed 22uf cap or Pokey chip yet. I have the case that Fred supplied, i removed the screw to open it and something else seems to be holding. Are the plastic clipps or any glue or sealing on it? Also are there any file/or filename limitations for the roms? What is the maximum size SD card I can use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78001987 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Mine arrives today. I will post some results later tonight or tomorrow. I wonder is the type of SD card can be an issue. I know some devices are finicky with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laner Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Mine arrives today. I will post some results later tonight or tomorrow. I wonder is the type of SD card can be an issue. I know some devices are finicky with that. It did for me... the first card I tried did not work at all; the second worked fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHart Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 It did for me... the first card I tried did not work at all; the second worked fine. That's useful to know. So what was the one that didn't work, and what was the one that did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I also have some problems with my Concerto....I want to narrow it down a bit before I post more but it upon repowering it it will give me the Concerto V.05 screen then boot into a blank menu screen with page 000 of 000 on it. Sometimes and sometimes i get my populated menu. A lot of game freezing and just hanging. I have .91 firmware. Is that the latest or do I need to do the posted one here? I am using a 4GB class 10 SD card and all the roms work fine with emulators. I have not installed 22uf cap or Pokey chip yet. I have the case that Fred supplied, i removed the screw to open it and something else seems to be holding. Are the plastic clipps or any glue or sealing on it? Also are there any file/or filename limitations for the roms? What is the maximum size SD card I can use? Presence of a Pokey is not causing the corruption or freezing issues. I installed the Pokey in the socket and the 22uF cap on the back side of the PCB and it has no effect except the few Pokey homebrews that actually boot have audio now. I originally thought the Concerto was corrupting the ROMs as it flashed them into memory (possibly due to bad chips), but if you are experiencing the same issues, I'm not so sure now it is the chips causing it. I have tried to old 2Gb SD cards with FAT file system, and one class 10 8Gb SDHC card with FAT32 file system. All three cards the menus appear normally and most ROMs flash successfully, then when I attempt to actually play the game, there seem to be major corruption and freezing issues in the games I have tried. See the video I posted a few posts up and let me know if your issues are similar to mine because based on how you described them it's as if nearly every ROM tested was bad in some way. Maybe we have similar revision 7800s. I'll open mine later and post photos of the serial and PCB revision. Batari wants to examine my 7800 but I'm currently a bit reluctant to let it go since it has the "Best Electronics" AV cable installed. Also I downloaded the latest publicly posted firmware from this post http://atariage.com/forums/topic/230751-sd-cartridge-for-7800/?p=3618132 and it says v.5 (or was it v.05; I can't remember) on the menu, not v.91 so I'm not sure if there's a newer BIOS out than the October 24th post by Batari, would you mind sharing it with me? Anyway I've tried flashing this BIOS like three of four times now with no effect and I think it may be the same one that was installed when I received my cart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Does it say made in China or made in Taiwan on the serial number sticker? Mitch If the A1 is any indicator it looks like his is a Taiwanese console. Chinese consoles tend to have an "X" as the first digit of the SN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 and it says v.5 (or was it v.05; I can't remember) on the menu, not v.91 so I'm not sure if there's a newer BIOS out than the October 24th post by Batari, would you mind sharing it with me? Anyway I've tried flashing this BIOS like three of four times now with no effect and I think it may be the same one that was installed when I received my cart. The hbios_conc_10_24_16.cbi firmware in October 24th post appears to be 0.91. (see below) Maybe you haven't applied it? Concerto System Preferences Utilities: To change settings and preferences, hold button and move joystick left or right. Page 0000 of 0000 Concerto firmware 0.91 Copyright 2015 Status: This is a work-in-progress firmware. Not all features are complete, some games may not function properly yet, and you may encounter some bugs. Please help us make Concerto better by reporting issues and keeping up on firmware updates. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Firmware 0.91 did make changes to how games are loaded. You guys can try the old 0.9 bios to see if games are loaded correctly. But in either case, there is not yet any checking to ensure that the game loaded right. I planned to add a CRC check in there to ensure correct loading at some point, because I don't trust the 7800 hbios_concerto_0.9.cbi.zip 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 The hbios_conc_10_24_16.cbi firmware in October 24th post appears to be 0.91. (see below) Maybe you haven't applied it? I would load the firmware file like a normal ROM and it simply says "update applied. press fire to reboot". After pressing Fire, the console becomes unresponsive so I just shut it off. Forgive me if I'm doing it wrong and didn't successfully apply the update. Anyway here are photos of my Atari 7800 PCB. Batari if you've got time, I would like you to check to see if you have a 7800 board revision that matches mine. Nearly every game I try to load off the Concerto appears to be corrupted and most ROMs glitch out or freeze fairly early in the game if they successfully boot at all. S.N. Number: "Made in Taiwan" A1 88 5425514 PCB Revision: C025233-002 REV A 35-87 More pics of the PCB including all chips and the "Factory Installed" Best AV mod in the flickr album I uploaded: https://www.flickr.com/photos/30203515@N04/albums/72157674796130790/with/30582568252/ The print on some of the chips for the full PCB photo came out fuzzy due to the camera being out of focus in part of the image. I have to shoot at a slight angle otherwise the flash will wash out the board. If anyone absolutely needs the white text off any of these chips, I can take more photos, but removing the shielding on and off every time I open the console is a pain and I'd rather not open it up more than necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts