phaeron Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 Suddenly losing audio completely in 2.70 Test 38 when stereo Pokey is enabled (under Windows 10 64-bit). Turn it off and audio comes back on. With stereo enabled, no OS key click or IO sounds at all (stock OS ROM). Can't reproduce, need more info.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Of course. Can I log the audio? Monitor overlay still shows sound on left channel with stereo enabled but there's nothing coming out of the speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madi Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Audio tested under WIN 10 x64 Altirra 2.7 r38, 40 Pal & NTSC Audio is as expected. Functions normally, slower in Pal mode as expected. Mute.. will mute sound. See pictures taken from test 40 NTSC for moth mono and stereo: madi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Can't reproduce, need more info.... Selected DirectSound and it works now. Altirra's stereo output doesn't work through WaveOut on this (recently set up) machine for some reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Selected DirectSound and it works now. Altirra's stereo output doesn't work through WaveOut on this (recently set up) machine for some reason. On a related note... setting aside issues like this, what are the pros and cons of these two options (WaveOut, DirectSound). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) WaveOut randomly started working again... One thing I noticed about DirectSound is it seems to lag more that WaveOut. Keyclicks often appear to be coming through the speakers a little after the typed character appears on the screen. With WaveOut, I don't get this sense. Edited December 8, 2015 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 One thing I noticed about DirectSound is it seems to lag more that WaveOut. Keyclicks often appear to be coming through the speakers a little after the typed character appears on the screen. With WaveOut, I don't get this sense. Thanks for the info. Something to put under the hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) Well - be aware it's just this user's impression of things. No idea if there's any rationale behind it. Heh: second Google result for "DirectSound lag" is at virtualdub.org. Edited December 8, 2015 by flashjazzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 It makes sense though guys - DirectSound has to go through the DirectX subsystem whereas waveout requires much less processing, both respectively when the CPU is taking a big hit from Altirra's cycle-exact emulation engine. At least that was - again, as a single user - my impression way back in the early 2000's when I became fanatical about keeping my nascent DVD collection on harddrive and therefore did a lot of AV ripping, transcoding and recoding; hundreds of processor hours. The WaveOut methods always gave the least amount of broken sync when outputing audio in my experience. Equally as with everything it probably depends more on the power of your processor these days than any intrinsic failure/non-optimization of the system software. And then the bastards brought out BD and I threw in the towel! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Uh, no, waveOut does not require much less processing than DirectSound. There isn't really a "DirectX subsystem" -- DirectX is a collection of mostly independent systems with a common theme. There is, however, a multimedia system that waveOut does have to go through. The difference is unnoticeable on current systems, and the two paths actually are pretty similar. On Windows XP, both go through the kernel streaming mixer; on Vista and up, they go through the user-space mixer (via WASAPI). Core usage is also a non-issue as audio has higher CPU priority and the majority of systems also have more than one CPU core. The main advantage that DirectSound has is latency, the delay between when sound is generated and when it is output. waveOut requires audio to be sent in packets, whereas DirectSound uses a continuous streaming buffer. By adjusting the latency parameter in Altirra's sound options, you can generally get lower latencies with DirectSound before crackling occurs. Sync with DVD playback is a completely different animal because in that case it is trivial to buffer at least a quarter second of both audio and video to smooth out kinks. waveOut does have the advantage of being more reliable because of its older, simpler design; it's the default in Altirra because DirectSound is more prone to needing the buffering settings tweaked for each system to avoid crackling. It is possible to get even lower latency on Vista+ with XAudio2 or direct WASAPI, but there are some annoying hassles with those and I've avoided them so far. You can log the audio output using the recording options... but if you are getting it working in DirectSound and not in waveOut, the issue is almost certainly not going to show up in the recording. I'd like to know if waveOut stereo does work on an earlier version, because if not, I don't need to try to fix it for this release. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Thanks for that additional info phaeron! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Uh, no, waveOut does not require much less processing than DirectSound. There isn't really a "DirectX subsystem" -- DirectX is a collection of mostly independent systems with a common theme. There is, however, a multimedia system that waveOut does have to go through. The difference is unnoticeable on current systems, and the two paths actually are pretty similar. On Windows XP, both go through the kernel streaming mixer; on Vista and up, they go through the user-space mixer (via WASAPI). Core usage is also a non-issue as audio has higher CPU priority and the majority of systems also have more than one CPU core. The main advantage that DirectSound has is latency, the delay between when sound is generated and when it is output. waveOut requires audio to be sent in packets, whereas DirectSound uses a continuous streaming buffer. By adjusting the latency parameter in Altirra's sound options, you can generally get lower latencies with DirectSound before crackling occurs. Sync with DVD playback is a completely different animal because in that case it is trivial to buffer at least a quarter second of both audio and video to smooth out kinks. waveOut does have the advantage of being more reliable because of its older, simpler design; it's the default in Altirra because DirectSound is more prone to needing the buffering settings tweaked for each system to avoid crackling. It is possible to get even lower latency on Vista+ with XAudio2 or direct WASAPI, but there are some annoying hassles with those and I've avoided them so far. You can log the audio output using the recording options... but if you are getting it working in DirectSound and not in waveOut, the issue is almost certainly not going to show up in the recording. I'd like to know if waveOut stereo does work on an earlier version, because if not, I don't need to try to fix it for this release. Woah - way to slap me down there Avery!!! Many thanks dude Whether its extra processing causing latency - or that what I called as an amateur dabbler of many hours 'extra processing' is in fact what the professionals like yourself called 'Latency' I can emphatically report that if I used any form of DirectX/DirectSound in AV transcoding I would very frequently encounter loss of audio sync, whereas waveout gave me the purest results. In turn that sounds a lot like the slight delay which FJC reported. Take that for what it is - probably bollocks I know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Well, I have no clue how to duplicate the silence, since everything continues to work using WaveOut. I have to assume for the moment that my audio driver temporarily experienced issues with Altirra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I tried again... And got it to work (I don't know how or what I did differently) anyway the steps that worked for me are. Fantastic - worked for me, very helpful! Thanks for all the suggestions, happily playing on my Mac :-) sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargie Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 You are welcome Steve. Glad I could help! Altirra really is fantastic, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I run in another issue... not sure if Altirra Issue... I wrote an small "dump to sectors" code which sets a DCB ($300...) and writes 15k data to an ATR. I assemble it in WUDSN which opens Altirra... my tool waits for pressing START so I can insert/mount an empty ATR (130kb)... now it writes 22 sectors... interesting it does then lag for some seconds... (when I do an ALT+TAB and back into Altirra) it writes again sectors. Disk emulation is set to sounds, counters on screen plus exact timing.... now I did several versions (while chatting with Wrathchild regarding disk bootblock)... and suddenly the ATR was not updated anymore even Altirra seem to "write sectos" (counter increases, typical write sounds). same code in Atari800win (baeh... ;=) but I need to say that)... always dumped data into that ATR. Windows 7 prof 64bit explorer even showed me that the ATR when trying with Altirra... did not alter the file as the "last edited" informations were not altered and at some point they were 20 minutes "old" even I run the dumper on a regular basis. WUDSN hex editor showed old content in the ATR, too... Any idea? I am using Test 38. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 The Wilmunder Star Raiders II sometimes has a photon torpedo that gets stuck and stays onscreen. Bug in Altirra? Or problem with the game code? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 I run in another issue... not sure if Altirra Issue... I wrote an small "dump to sectors" code which sets a DCB ($300...) and writes 15k data to an ATR. I assemble it in WUDSN which opens Altirra... my tool waits for pressing START so I can insert/mount an empty ATR (130kb)... now it writes 22 sectors... interesting it does then lag for some seconds... (when I do an ALT+TAB and back into Altirra) it writes again sectors. Disk emulation is set to sounds, counters on screen plus exact timing.... now I did several versions (while chatting with Wrathchild regarding disk bootblock)... and suddenly the ATR was not updated anymore even Altirra seem to "write sectos" (counter increases, typical write sounds). same code in Atari800win (baeh... ;=) but I need to say that)... always dumped data into that ATR. Windows 7 prof 64bit explorer even showed me that the ATR when trying with Altirra... did not alter the file as the "last edited" informations were not altered and at some point they were 20 minutes "old" even I run the dumper on a regular basis. WUDSN hex editor showed old content in the ATR, too... Any idea? I am using Test 38. Check whether the disk indicator is blinking or the disk image is red in the Disk Images dialog. Unlike Atari800Win, Altirra doesn't keep disk image files locked, but this does mean that it can run into problems if another program has the file locked. The emulator attempts to flush pending disk writes half a second after the last write -- if it encounters an error while doing so, it will start blinking the drive indicator and switch the drive from R/W mode to VirtR/W mode. The modified disk is still kept in memory so it can be flushed out with a manual Save As once the problem is resolved. A red disk image in the Disk Drives dialog means that it's still modified. If that's what's happening, run Process Monitor and see if any other programs are accessing the .ATR when this occurs. The Wilmunder Star Raiders II sometimes has a photon torpedo that gets stuck and stays onscreen. Bug in Altirra? Or problem with the game code? srIIa.png Pretty sure this is a game issue -- got it to happen in Atari800WinPLus (too lazy to turn on the real thing right now). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Thx. Was not aware of that behavior... Maybe drag and drop the file towards Skype file upload to Wratchchild or having it opened in hex editor could cause the issue described. I will keep an eye on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAZ Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Does anyone got: Altirra v2.60 test 12? This is an amazing emulator, thanks for making it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triads Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I believe all builds are still available thru Phaeron's site if you know the filenames.. Just incase, here is the build you seek - Altirra-2.60-test12.zip Edited February 9, 2016 by Triads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAZ Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Excellent, I shall try it out in Rocketlauncher. This is the version listed in the module for Altirra. Edit: I got it working now with current version of Altirra. Edited February 9, 2016 by KAZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAZ Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Hmm, this one won't launch in Rocketlauncher either. And I'm not good at writing scripts (for rocketlauncher). The standalone works just fine, so there's no issues of course. I was just trying to get it to work in RL. Edit: I just got it working. Edited February 9, 2016 by KAZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAZ Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I just got Altirra to launch in Rocketlauncher. And the most current version also. I had to scan for the bios files in a way that I wasn't used to. They listed the instructions in the module notes, which I should have read. System>Firmware>Firmware Images>and then to scan... I'm pleased. This is the emulator I want to use from now on in Rocketlauncher. Edited February 9, 2016 by KAZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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