FPGA Based Videogame System

[AtariBrian]

Yeah when I went to pay it was charging me 41 dollars . So I cancelled my order . No way in hell I am paying 41 dollars for shipping . Especially since it won't cost them near that so they will pocket the difference .

[Kismet]

Sounds good, would the HDMI-to-VGA converter produce lag? I am not at all familiar with how HDMI works and no idea what is in these converters, is it a circuit/decoder/encoder widget of some kind or just a pin adapter?

 

Not typically no. It depends if the HDMI support on the console recognizes passive DVI-A connected (eg VGA) or is strictly DVI-D signaling. You'd need a way to grab the audio if it's HDMI only. Most HDMI devices have optical output because of separate audio home theater systems.

 

A powered converter would be a framebuffer device and certainly be more expensive and introduce more latency.

 

For people who don't know, the OSSC and Framemeister devices are FPGA devices too. If we're were really smart, there would be an expansion bus (Z3K ideas) for plugging in a separate upscaler/analog-output part, since it's a feature that most people won't need.

 

And let's be honest, most of the people who buy the NT Mini and Super NT are probably going to use the Everdrive/SD2SNES carts for most of their games just so they don't have to take them out of storage, if they even own them at all. We're not going to see very many of these https://www.polygon.com/2017/8/30/16230658/street-fighter-2-snes-cartridge-rerelease-capcom-iam8bittype of productions, though I'm a little worried that it might encourage more counterfeit carts on eBay.

[Keatah]

Love that belch!! Came out of nowhere!!

 

Anyways.. If the purpose of the snes console is intended to play cartridges, then the core won't need any support for co-processors. My guess is there will be no support for them for roms.

[cacophony]

Anyways.. If the purpose of the snes console is intended to play cartridges, then the core won't need any support for co-processors. My guess is there will be no support for them for roms.

yet, after bringing up the SNES everdrive and the SD2SNES...

 

... This is why I think having the entire system FPGA'd along with the cartridge part is a better thing for me. I can just eliminate the whole shebang and have the best quality video out right off the bat, along with the best game support that works on modern equipment while having the lowest possible lag.

 

That's my thinking on it anyways. Besides, doing the whole system seems to be a lot more fun and gives a better sense of accomplishment.

That's the hope anyway

Edited October 19, 2017 by cacophony

[rezb1t]

My money is on kevtris bringing the Core Store to the Super NT and I immediately pre-ordered when I saw it.

Even if I'm wrong, I get a sweet HDMI SNES with extras an RGB SNES can't replicate for a decent price. Can't go wrong, in my opinion.

Edited October 19, 2017 by rezb1t

[Keatah]

There are several techniques that'd allow those ROMs requiring a co-processor to run on an fpga. It's really going to come down to style and what Analogue marketing wants to do.

[Bruce82]

You can gold plate plastic, using conductive paint:

 

yeah but plastic ;D you could use even gold leaf on plastic I think? I first tried with gold leaf plating the NT mini but would not have looked nice =,(

[Keatah]

I'd absolutely love to see one made from Sapphire.

[Flojomojo]

Anyways.. If the purpose of the snes console is intended to play cartridges, then the core won't need any support for co-processors. My guess is there will be no support for them for roms.

 

I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, but since I already have cartridges for the SuperFX games I care about (Starfox, Yoshi's Island, DOOMSNES, and Stunt Racer FX -- though I'm not really sure if I have that last one, meh either way), I personally am covered

[Tusecsy]

You can gold plate plastic, using conductive paint:

 

pffft, talk to me when it's platinum.

 

fun fact the entire world's supply of platinum fits in the bottom 1" of an olympic sized swimming pool. all the gold in the world fills 2 or 3.

 

and it still all looks like shit compared to atomic purple

[Wolf_]

Anyways.. If the purpose of the snes console is intended to play cartridges, then the core won't need any support for co-processors. My guess is there will be no support for them for roms.

And the point of the nt mini was to play nes and famicom games which is why it can't play any roms and has no custom mapper support or alternate cores... OH WAIT, it has all those things.

 

While nothing is confirmed if I were to make a bet I would not expect a complete 180 in how they do things suddenly.

[PaulieORF]

I wonder if they plan on releasing a version of the Nt Mini in the same vein as the Super Nt, with a plastic shell, no analog, expansion port, controller, etc, for a cheaper price once they sell out of their last stock of the current model.

[NE146]

Put it this way, if it doesn't play roms off SD or have any additional cores 2 years from now, are you going to be bitching? The cores on the NT Mini had been under development for years prior.

 

At this point the ONLY way to think of this thing is a hi-def fpga SNES, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

 

[Flojomojo]

pffft, talk to me when it's platinum.

 

fun fact the entire world's supply of platinum fits in the bottom 1" of an olympic sized swimming pool. all the gold in the world fills 2 or 3.

 

and it still all looks like shit compared to atomic purple

 

Fortunately this collision of neutron stars means there is enough platinum for everyone! All we need to do is go get it. Only 130 million light years away. Which means it's been sitting there for a long time. Best curb pickup ever.

[Flojomojo]

While nothing is confirmed if I were to make a bet I would not expect a complete 180 in how they do things suddenly.

 

A complete 180 plus another 30 for shipping!

[cacophony]

I wonder if they plan on releasing a version of the Nt Mini in the same vein as the Super Nt, with a plastic shell, no analog, expansion port, controller, etc, for a cheaper price once they sell out of their last stock of the current model.

 

Analogue has already stated that they will not be revisiting the NES in future products.

[Toth]

Can someone explain to me something about the original Analogue Nt? Here is a picture I grabbed off ebay of a red one.

 

 

On the back it looks like it can output everything but I thought an original Nt could only be HDMI OR Analog? One or the other. Do some of those output connectors just not do anything on this model or was the HDMI upgrade actually in addition to the analog output?

 

Thanks

[Wolf_]

Can someone explain to me something about the original Analogue Nt? Here is a picture I grabbed off ebay of a red one.

 

 

On the back it looks like it can output everything but I thought an original Nt could only be HDMI OR Analog? One or the other. Do some of those output connectors just not do anything on this model or was the HDMI upgrade actually in addition to the analog output?

 

Thanks

The very first Analogue Nt was just analogue out. It was literally just a nes in a new case.

The mini was their first fpga console and outputs hdmi and analogue out. The early gens of these did not have proper voltage for scart out though.

Now the Super Nt will be their first console to only have hdmi out. A strange choice for a company named "Analogue" but w/e I'm sure that won't get made into a meme or anything to mercilessly mock them... nah

[cacophony]

Can someone explain to me something about the original Analogue Nt? Here is a picture I grabbed off ebay of a red one.

 

...

 

On the back it looks like it can output everything but I thought an original Nt could only be HDMI OR Analog? One or the other. Do some of those output connectors just not do anything on this model or was the HDMI upgrade actually in addition to the analog output?

 

Thanks

 

The original NTs with upgraded HDMI output disabled the analog out. It was one or the other.

[Bakeriffic]

 

Not typically no. It depends if the HDMI support on the console recognizes passive DVI-A connected (eg VGA) or is strictly DVI-D signaling. You'd need a way to grab the audio if it's HDMI only. Most HDMI devices have optical output because of separate audio home theater systems.

 

A powered converter would be a framebuffer device and certainly be more expensive and introduce more latency.

 

For people who don't know, the OSSC and Framemeister devices are FPGA devices too. If we're were really smart, there would be an expansion bus (Z3K ideas) for plugging in a separate upscaler/analog-output part, since it's a feature that most people won't need.

If it's possible, it would be great if Analogue could release an official adapter that would plug into the HDMI out on the Super NT and output lag-free 240p analog video via a DB-15 socket (the socket used for analog video on the NT Mini) on the other end. This way I could use the analog video cables (BNC RGB, Component, and S-Video/Composite) that I purchased from Monoprice for my NT Mini with the Super NT. Although I love being able to play the NT Mini on my 75" HDTV, I end up hooking it up to my 2006 Samsung CRT via the component cable more often in order to enjoy a true zero-lag experience with authentic scanlines. I've already pre-ordered a Super NT (transparent) and I'm very much looking forward to trying it out but analog video would be the icing on the cake, even if the solution isn't as elegant as it is on the NT Mini.

[Zorlac]

What are the chances of SuperNt getting an update to output 4K someday?

 

Also, what about variable refresh rate? (I am guessing this would require HDMI 2.1?)

On a side note, I am also hoping for PCE/Turbo CD and Mega/Sega CD cores!

[RGBSource]

Can someone explain to me something about the original Analogue Nt? Here is a picture I grabbed off ebay of a red one.

 

On the back it looks like it can output everything but I thought an original Nt could only be HDMI OR Analog? One or the other. Do some of those output connectors just not do anything on this model or was the HDMI upgrade actually in addition to the analog output?

 

Thanks

The original Analogue Nt shipped with either the NESRGB (standard) or the Hi-Def NES (upgrade) installed. The Hi-Def NES Nt option provides composite output from the PPU via DE-15 connector pin 12. This only applies to the second/final production run (polycarbonate base plate). I've never actually tested composite video out on my second batch Nt, but would imagine composite output would also require the HDMI cable to be disconnected from the NT/HDN per standard design (or else the picture will look really weird).

 

https://support.analogue.co/hc/en-us/articles/216203167-Analogue-Nt-FAQ

[RGBSource]

What are the chances of SuperNt getting an update to output 4K someday?

 

Also, what about variable refresh rate? (I am guessing this would require HDMI 2.1?)

 

On a side note, I am also hoping for PCE/Turbo CD and Mega/Sega CD cores!

Two blockers for 4K output:

1. No manufacturers make generic 18Gbps TX ICs - current 18Gbps transmitters are integrated as part of ASICs

2. Cost of FPGAs that can transmit data fast enough are still $200+ parts

 

That said there are a number of 4K TVs that can cleanly 2x scale 1080p to 2160p. Some 2017 models include the Sony X900E, and LG's OLEDs.

[PaulieORF]

 

Analogue has already stated that they will not be revisiting the NES in future products.

Ah, I did not see that. Good to know.

[Newsdee]

For those thinking that this is just a reshelled NT mini, actually the new FPGA chip opens a lot more possibilities.

 

From what I understood from Kevtris the Mini didn't have enough FPGA space to run an HDMI upscaler with more complex cores (e.g. Minimig AGA on MiST takes all the space without upscaler). But the new Super NT should be in par even if the upscaler takes half of the chip.

 

So in a way this is a needed upgrade towards having a true Z3000 type of machine. If one day a developer API and USB support becomes available, this could theoretically receive ports of cores from the MiST.

 

I'm excited to see what comes out of this. Even without core store or 3rd party, if it sells well it would establish a nicer price point for these kind of machines.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Newsdee