FPGA Based Videogame System

[Radfoo]

What's the advantage of pre-ordering with Analogue? Will the price likey be much higher when pre-orders are finished?

Previous models have been available in batches then quickly went out of stock. I'm sure you will be able to get one at a later date but previously there has been a wait.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Radfoo

[Flojomojo]

Just wondering how we would make what we buy "our own"? Who would program these?

 

Kevtris, of course. This is how the "core store" was announced for the last machine, it was very a very low-key, "secret menu" approach.

 

They could make it where their own cores are locked to a specific board/fpga, and yet have it remain open for 3rd party to come in and make something. A little like Tivoisation..

 

Tivo is the poster child for taking open-source software and locking it into a proprietary box, but remember that even they have a developer program, and their stuff is extensible.

 

Exactly. If the cores are locked to specific internally identical models with different cases/control ports, and those cores are the massively desirable kevtris cores - other than slapping stickers on the case, making it 'our own' means nothing.

 

Hence the first and last purchase...

 

Highlighted for emphasis. I'm gambling the final think will swing in the other direction.

 

I think it's cool that Kevtris is working with a reputable company, someone with good design and marketing sense. He's awesome but it's better to see a strong team rather than a potential single point of failure.

 

NT mini has analog output and a much nicer shell. Notice all the people asking for analog output in the last few pages?....

 

The NT Mini cores WILL be available for the Super NT, 100%. There will be a SNES core and eventually genesis/turbografx at least, 100%.

 

Bookmark this post and refer to it in 4 months, so I don't have to tell you "I told you so"

 

Analogue doesn't care about some convoluted shit marketing/business model like all the other companies who have to prop up their products with hot air. They produce unique items that people actually want to purchase. They don't give two shits about what people do aftermarket, they encourage it. All it does is drive more sales.

 

Genesis NT was just a brainstorm, and it'd be a good solution to convoluted cart/controller adapters (pick your preference when you buy the fpga). A large majority of people who buy the Super NT will probably never hack it, just as the snes mini. And nobody would be forcing you to buy it so I don't know why this would turn you off to the company. You'd rather they milk you for your dough one system at a time and stop their best programmer from releasing cores? I feel bad for whatever business you work for if this is your mindset.

 

I understand the pessimism in this industry with all the hot air and dead products, but this is Kevtris we're talking about, when has he ever let you down?

 

 

I count 11 people asking for analog output. I don't know if they'd buy this kind of thing anyway.

 

 

 

Wolf_

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-143?do=findComment&comment=3868963

 

emubastard

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-145?do=findComment&comment=3869090

 

atmn

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-146?do=findComment&comment=3869166

 

hyrulebr

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-146?do=findComment&comment=3869207

 

narshe

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-147?do=findComment&comment=3869224

 

Sbeehive

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-147?do=findComment&comment=3869238

 

gulps

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-147?do=findComment&comment=3869248

 

NoKnownOrigin

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-148?do=findComment&comment=3869305

 

Eatitup86

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-148?do=findComment&comment=3869398

 

Toth

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-150?do=findComment&comment=3869539

 

simbin

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242970-fpga-based-videogame-system/page-151?do=findComment&comment=3869752

 

 

 

I really think that Tusecsy is onto something here. I've resigned myself to getting AT LEAST a $200 digital SNES, but likely much more. I've backed Kickstarter products that came through with far less. For me, this is more of a Sure Thing than the SNES Classic Mini, since I have faith I'll actually get this fargin' thing.

[Guspaz]

It's going to be a long winter. I rolled the dice and pre-ordered because I too expect the core store to open for business after launch (at least for the existing 8-bit cores) and I would imagine that in the same vein that Christopher Taber indicated he won't be making a stripped down Mini Nt, that there probably won't continue to be many future runs of the Mini Nt after the current batch comes out. More than likely there will be a NES cartridge adapter and the option to use 8bitdo NES styled controllers for the Super Nt. I'm *hoping* that wired controller adapters become a thing as well. When that happens the Mini Nt will be retired like the other earlier Analogue products. the pricepoint of the Mini doesn't make long-term sense alongside the Super Nt.

 

You can use any 8bitdo controller with an 8bitdo retro receiver, and there have been NES-to-SNES controller adapters (in both directions) for decades since they essentially use the same controller pinout/protocol.

[keepdreamin]

I've been using the 8-bitdo retro receivers on my SNES jr since they were released along with their SFC30 controllers. No issues after firmware updates.

[RevQuixo]

 

You can use any 8bitdo controller with an 8bitdo retro receiver, and there have been NES-to-SNES controller adapters (in both directions) for decades since they essentially use the same controller pinout/protocol.

 

Well I guess a more nuanced reply is that I'm expecting analogue to market the SNES to NES capability via 8bitdo. They would then sell us a cart adapter and/or a cart adapter and firmware core upgrade. That's where the sustained growth for this platform comes from in my mind at least. It will continue to push sales after the initial rush dies down.

[Tusecsy]

 

No need to be afraid - this ain't no SNES Classic Edition

 

If these are the same great quality we've come to expect from Analogue, they should have no trouble pumping them out to meet demand. Plastic injection moulded shells probably make things easier on the manufacturing side.

 

I waited until the second batch, after Jailbreak was announced to order my Nt mini, and only had to wait 3 weeks. No biggie

 

So you ended up waiting about 6 months from release to get you mini... (not an insult I did the same thing lol)

 

If you don't preorder this thing you will be waiting a long time. The shells are easy to pump out, the programmed Cyclone V is not.

 

Every single product they've released has sold out, including NT mini reshipments.

 

But hey, play the "wait and see", as if this thing won't have cores LOL.

 

Seriously need a couple stickies on this thread now though.

 

KEVTRIS WILL NOT COMMENT ON CORES OR POTENTIAL CORES

 

AN ANALOG VERSION WILL PROBABLY COME OUT DOWN THE LINE BUT WILL BE 300$+ AND NOT FOR QUITE A WHILE, CONTACT ANALOGUE IF INTERESTED.

 

sorry for the caps but seriously....100s of people are gonna come in here and ask that over the next 4 months.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Tusecsy

[NE146]

I wouldn't say it's idiotic, come on. Unless it somehow gets discontinued and becomes a rare item, what does it matter when you get it?

 

Play your friggin SNES (or snes classic) in the interim to fill that void if you're chomping at the bit.

[Flojomojo]

I don't think there's any need to call people "idiotic" to wait for a tech product.

 

Nothing else is nearly as likely to be:

 

- cheaper to buy

- more fully featured

- bug free

- better supported

 

than v.2 of a new product.

 

That said, I consider SuperNT to be the sequel to the tried-and-true, so I ASSume it's going to work well.

[Tusecsy]

I wouldn't say it's idiotic, come on. Unless it somehow gets discontinued and becomes a rare item, what does it matter when you get it?

 

Play your friggin SNES (or snes classic) in the interim to fill that void if you're chomping at the bit.

 

I edited that before you replied, guess I wasn't quick enough.

[Guspaz]

The shells are easy to pump out, the programmed Cyclone V is not.

 

The Cyclone V are mass-produced (by Intel, who owns Altera) and purchasable in large quantities, and are programmed at runtime, not at the factory. They are probably one of the easiest to obtain components in the Super Nt...

[Keatah]

That's right. Because how else would the console be flashed to fix bugs?

[derFunkenstein]

It does seem like this could be a thing that does not sell out easily, but I'm just not willing to take that chance. LOL

[Fafner]

So, hypothetically speaking, if more cores were to be added to the Super NT how far could it go?

Genesis?

TG16?

Neo Geo?

Jaguar?

 

Any ideas?

[Great Hierophant]

 

The Cyclone V are mass-produced (by Intel, who owns Altera) and purchasable in large quantities, and are programmed at runtime, not at the factory. They are probably one of the easiest to obtain components in the Super Nt...

 

Plastic shells, a readily available FPGA and a simpler board build suggest that this machine will be available more regularly and in greater quantity than the Nt Mini. Still, those boards do take time to build and test.

[RevQuixo]

So, hypothetically speaking, if more cores were to be added to the Super NT how far could it go?

Genesis?

TG16?

Neo Geo?

Jaguar?

 

Any ideas?

 

I'm not sure about Jag but my wishlist besides the above is Famicom Disc System, Sega CD, Turbo CD & Neo Geo CD iso support. Maybe Neo Geo Pocket & Wonderswan support on the handheld side. I'd also love for Kev to be able to go back and pad out the existing cores: adding save support to other systems besides NES, squashing the remaining bugs in the GB/GBC cores, etc.

[Tusecsy]

So, hypothetically speaking, if more cores were to be added to the Super NT how far could it go?

Genesis?

TG16?

Neo Geo?

Jaguar?

 

Any ideas?

Not Jaguar it's 32-bit

 

Genesis

Sega CD

TG16

TG16-CD

Neo Geo

and maybe CDI (although who cares)

Edited October 17, 2017 by Tusecsy

[Keatah]

Plastic shells, a readily available FPGA and a simpler board build suggest that this machine will be available more regularly and in greater quantity than the Nt Mini. Still, those boards do take time to build and test.

 

I would think these boards are going to be very simple in terms of layout and number of parts. The complete opposite of a PC motherboard.

[Flojomojo]

Seriously need a couple stickies on this thread now though.

 

KEVTRIS WILL NOT COMMENT ON CORES OR POTENTIAL CORES

 

AN ANALOG VERSION WILL PROBABLY COME OUT DOWN THE LINE BUT WILL BE 300$+ AND NOT FOR QUITE A WHILE, CONTACT ANALOGUE IF INTERESTED.

 

sorry for the caps but seriously....100s of people are gonna come in here and ask that over the next 4 months.

 

 

[cacophony]

 

I'm not sure about Jag but my wishlist besides the above is Famicom Disc System, Sega CD, Turbo CD & Neo Geo CD iso support. Maybe Neo Geo Pocket & Wonderswan support on the handheld side. I'd also love for Kev to be able to go back and pad out the existing cores: adding save support to other systems besides NES, squashing the remaining bugs in the GB/GBC cores, etc.

 

What systems don't support save ram for carts that had battery save? All the the ones I've tried seem to have this feature (SMS, Gameboy, ...)

[F34R]

kevtris nonchalantly writes a SNES core, seriously impressive work. Would I be correct to assume if this clone does SD card rom loading as well, you're talking non-enhancement chip games only?

 

speaking of which, kevtris any chance you could toss together say a superfx core for the sd2snes in your spare time? Just thought I'd ask.

 

This doesn't make any sense. If you want analog out, just use the SNES you already have. Why would you buy a converter for this when you already own original hardware?

So I don't have to keep pulling carts from the console. It makes perfect sense for my wants/needs.

[AtariNerd]

twohundredsixtysomethingpoorer..

 

I think Analogue are being pretty clever.

 

We need to remember that the NT Mini and (maybe), the Super NT aren't being marketed with the CoreStore as a high-lighted feature - that's just an added OpenSecret doo-dad, Kevin was gracious enough to throw in on the down-low to the Mini, probably realizing that the hardware was a precious penny to many of us as purely a NES device, that retroactively helped justify the price to many and we now-spoiled folks now kind of expect it. It also helped forward his intents in development with his own eventual penultimate creation. The Mini was marketed as the ultimate, no-compromise NES, recreating all of the nuances, oddities and quirks of the 8bit beastie, faithfully and with reference quality. To do so, they needed to include exotic hardware, which serendipitously also benefited implementing the simulations of the other funny animals from that era.

 

With the SNES/ Super NT, that exotic analog hardware isn't needed nearly so much. Remember, it's being marketed as a presentation of that console, alone, on the front-end, with any possible additions being added icing. Its display is almost clinically sharp, compared to its 8bit sibby and its signal is adequately handled in the digital domain; this new bit of kit probably implementing the display with a new set of filters that allow one to tune/ tone this in regards to aesthetic taste. The upshot of this, is that while the Mini was/is a boutique device, that has found a broader, if still more of an enthusiast audience, the Super, while still maintaining impeccable quality, can be marketed at a more main-stream price, closer in line with other implementations - certainly within range of what the scalpers are charging for the out-of-stock plug-n-play toys.

 

So, we have a device capable of replicating all of the wonky 8-bit wonder of that era for the no-compromise purists and we have a new shiny 8-bit and 16-bit capable, crispity-display device, at a reduced price, suitable for most everyone else. Whether that second device eventually gets an analog upgrade, depends on demand. New devices are always a risk, though they helped mitigate it somewhat by building on the previous design, it being an FPGA device, reconfigurable by adding or excluding various components. Anyways, another opportunity there, as many of us will snap this up, now and consider getting the full-fat version if and when it manifests, later. Clever so and sos and one can't fault them, as any venture like this has a level of uncertainty and risk.

 

The thing that comes to mind, is that while the added cores helped justify the price/value of the Mini, the Super doesn't necessarily need them to do so, though, oh please. . Now, while people sit on the fence, debating with themselves whether they need the added thrills of the Mini or settle for the Super, hoping that it will have the jail-break, the Mini will still sale well to enthusiasts, who desire all of the bells and whistles, the new , more affordable device, will interest/ sway new-comers who might not have considered getting something like this. My prediction is that the new device will get the jail-break, that it really doesn't step on the toes of the previous group attracted to the Mini, as that can still be created on-demand, as needed, purchasers fronting the costs, as always.

 

The potentially FPGA-upgraded Mini (or analog-upgraded Super??) is another thing, entirely. If it's in the FPGA-upgraded Mini version, it's going to be a dear thing, indeed, as demand will be the lowest and will need to be created almost bespoke, in batches, with probably considerable wait times. If it's the analog-upgraded Super version, it might not be quite as dear, but an interesting sale. It won't be as exclusive as the aluminum-cased original Mini, but not quite as expensive either. I guess the Super could possibly get an optional aluminum (or whatever) case, as well. It would be a strange matter of catering to aesthetics. Personally, I think I might like the plastic case a bit more, but I'll need to see it in person - in my own greedy little hands to be sure. Of course, if you have the Mini, already and you get the Super, one may not really need to worry if the other gets an upgrade, but it would be nice to have the choice. I suspect it might eventually go both ways, depending if there is enough demand.

[RevQuixo]

 

What systems don't support save ram for carts that had battery save? All the the ones I've tried seem to have this feature (SMS, Gameboy, ...)

 

 

I'll need to go back and check but I could have sworn that even though the system prompts you to save that saving doesn't actually work in anything but NES.

 

 

*edit* Just reread earlier thread posts. Maybe I've been doing it wrong...will need to recheck.

Edited October 17, 2017 by RevQuixo

[keepdreamin]

So you ended up waiting about 6 months from release to get you mini... (not an insult I did the same thing lol)

 

If you don't preorder this thing you will be waiting a long time. The shells are easy to pump out, the programmed Cyclone V is not.

 

Every single product they've released has sold out, including NT mini reshipments.

 

But hey, play the "wait and see", as if this thing won't have cores LOL.

 

Seriously need a couple stickies on this thread now though.

 

KEVTRIS WILL NOT COMMENT ON CORES OR POTENTIAL CORES

 

AN ANALOG VERSION WILL PROBABLY COME OUT DOWN THE LINE BUT WILL BE 300$+ AND NOT FOR QUITE A WHILE, CONTACT ANALOGUE IF INTERESTED.

 

sorry for the caps but seriously....100s of people are gonna come in here and ask that over the next 4 months.

Do you work for them? If not, your caps lock speculations aren't actually answering any real questions

[derFunkenstein]

Not Jaguar it's 32-bit

 

Genesis

Sega CD

TG16

TG16-CD

Neo Geo

and maybe CDI (although who cares)

 

Outside of CDI this is my wish list. It'd also be nice if the 8-bit cores are backwards compatible from the Nt Mini to the Super Nt, but it won't break my heart too badly if they're not.

 

Also some sort of controller with six face buttons would be great, too. The Hori Fighting Commander that was released for the SNES Classic would be great, but of course it doesn't have the same connector. Hmm. :-/

[Tusecsy]

Do you work for them? If not, your caps lock speculations aren't actually answering any real questions

 

those are the answers as stated by Kevtris and Analogue already. no speculation whatsoever.