FPGA Based Videogame System

[RadikusRLZ]

Why the hell my NT Mini shows so much noise when I plug it to composite and S-video to my Framemeister and my Sony LCD tv. This noise picture only happen with NTSC signal the PAL signal is ok. I use Firmware jailbreak 1.7

[Wolf_]

Why the hell my NT Mini shows so much noise when I plug it to composite and S-video to my Framemeister and my Sony LCD tv. This noise picture only happen with NTSC signal the PAL signal is ok. I use Firmware jailbreak 1.7

Why the hell you no use hdmi?

[RadikusRLZ]

Why the hell you no use hdmi?

I love Composite and S-video, but why they dont work like they work my NES ? I am very disapoint and mad

[Great Hierophant]

I love Composite and S-video, but why they dont work like they work my NES ? I am very disapoint and mad

 

Let me understand what you are trying to do here :

 

You are connecting your Nt Mini, via its composite and S-Video connections and not via HDMI, to a Framemeister, which is then connected with an HDMI cable to a Sony LCD TV. Can anyone else see what is so about this setup?

Edited November 29, 2017 by Great Hierophant

[RadikusRLZ]

 

Let me understand what you are trying to do here :

 

You are connecting your Nt Mini, via its composite and S-Video connections and not via HDMI, to a Framemeister, which is then connected with an HDMI cable to a Sony LCD TV. Can anyone else see what is so about this setup?

Yes, I want to test the quality of the Composite and S-video, PAL is ok, but why the NTSC signal is so noise.

[RadikusRLZ]

By the way, why NT Mini does not have Secam mode or Dendy mode like emulators have ?

[cfillak]

Why the hell my NT Mini shows so much noise when I plug it to composite and S-video to my Framemeister and my Sony LCD tv. This noise picture only happen with NTSC signal the PAL signal is ok. I use Firmware jailbreak 1.7

If you want people to help you with this issue you need to provide more information. Which core are you using? Which Composite/S-video adapter are you using? What is the quality of the composite/s-video cable you are using, is it shielded? What Framemeister settings are you using? What is your Sony LCD TV model number? Does this noise appear when using composite/s-video when connected to a CRT?

 

 

By the way, why NT Mini does not have Secam mode or Dendy mode like emulators have ?

I know the Atari 2600 core has a SECAM palette, but I think that's because some games got officially released in France. As far as I know, most Dendy games were bootleg or pirate multicarts. Do Dendy games work on Famicom hardware?

[Great Hierophant]

If you want people to help you with this issue you need to provide more information. Which core are you using? Which Composite/S-video adapter are you using? What is the quality of the composite/s-video cable you are using, is it shielded? What Framemeister settings are you using? What is your Sony LCD TV model number? Does this noise appear when using composite/s-video when connected to a CRT?

 

 

I know the Atari 2600 core has a SECAM palette, but I think that's because some games got officially released in France. As far as I know, most Dendy games were bootleg or pirate multicarts. Do Dendy games work on Famicom hardware?

 

According to Kevtris, the major difference between a NTSC, PAL and SECAM 2600 is the color system the TIA in each system supports. The games themselves set the refresh rate by the number of scanlines they output, both visible and otherwise.

 

The Dendy is generally NTSC Famicom/NES friendly, its PPU timings are usually closer to NTSC than to PAL NES systems.

[Andromeda Stardust]

much better options...

 

1. Sell NT Mini

2. Buy Super NT

3. Throw away CRT

 

really is that simple.

Please don't throw it away. They aren't making any more...

[Schizophretard]

much better options...

 

1. Sell NT Mini

2. Buy Super NT

3. Throw away CRT

 

really is that simple.

 

Better for you.

[Keatah]

I find this discussion interesting and annoying and necessary all at once.

 

Interesting because we're talking tech and standards conversion.

Annoying because it can become tedious and anal - way beyond the average gamer.

Necessary because we need new hardware on the scene and to continue refining emulators.

[Newsdee]

I would love to see this with several usb so that they could be used as controllers. As well as potentially connected to a pc for doing homebrew dev. If this was a platform for players and developers that would be awesome and you would have my money. I know I ask alot, but if it could also be used as a fpga dev platform for designing a pc, as well as software dev for a pc with remote debug connectivity you would have me.

Look into the MiSTer, it's exactly what you describe minus the Kevtris cores. Instead it has many open source cores including arcades and computers. It supports lots of USB controllers and adapters for original gamepads.

 

Neither the Analogue NT or the Super NT have 3rd party support right now. This MiSTer is built on top of an FPGA development board (Terasic DE10 Nano Kit) so it's fully open and documented. There is also one person looking at porting it to a cheaper board (DE0 Nano), giving up HDMI and some FPGA space for the price difference ($99 instead of $130).

 

http://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

 

Edit: I appreciate that the Kevtris cores are done to a higher standard but it's really two different markets. If you have development in mind these boards are a better investment, and aren't too pricey either. You can help improve what's missing from the cores too

 

The NT machines are better for those looking at an end product without any intents of development. That said it's limited to consoles, while the MiSter boards have computer cores as well (Amiga, c64, AppleII, Mac+, Acorn Archimedes, PC 386, ZX Spectrum, Sam Coupe, etc).

Edited November 30, 2017 by Newsdee

[Andromeda Stardust]

I find this discussion interesting and annoying and necessary all at once.

 

Interesting because we're talking tech and standards conversion.

Annoying because it can become tedious and anal - way beyond the average gamer.

Necessary because we need new hardware on the scene and to continue refining emulators.

Honestly I feel the budget friendly option here with best possible quality at an affordable price is better deal going forward compared to let's cram every feature under the sun and spare no expense by making functional art rather than an everyman's console. HD is the primary selling point so why maintain multiple outputs and bore cases out of solid metallic bullion? People who want analog RGB can eaily mod their SNES with cables and whatnot. I don't even own a tv that supports rgb but can still game on the tube any time with composite/fr and if I choose, even play that super scope bazooka safari game that won't work with flat panels.

 

I'm not going to pay twice as much to get what little additional perks could be better served with stock hardware and a tube tv. If I want that, I'll get it from stock hardware. The HD upgrade is what I'm focused on getting out of this package, and if I get jailbreak firmware it's a bonus. So in this scenario, I applaud them for providing a more streamlined, affordable package.

[Kismet]

much better options...

 

1. Sell NT Mini

2. Buy Super NT

3. Throw away CRT

 

really is that simple.

 

More like

 

1. Buy Super NT

2. Throw away broken SNES/FC systems

 

With additional bonus of

3. Throw away rubbish CRT's and LCD panels kept around for their analog inputs.

 

The Framemeister/OSSC would be considered redundant with a SuperNT, and since the SNES is the hardest console to get to work on these, that also solves that issue.

 

Regardless if the SuperNT gets JB'd or not is irrelevant. The matter of fact is that most of the 1990 SHVC-CPU-01 production units are dead or dying either due to CPU chip failure, bad caps, or chassis plastic (yellowing) making them brittle. It's very possible to get a NOS unopened model from 1990, plug it in, and it won't work.

[cfillak]

Honestly I feel the budget friendly option here with best possible quality at an affordable price is better deal going forward compared to let's cram every feature under the sun and spare no expense by making functional art rather than an everyman's console. HD is the primary selling point so why maintain multiple outputs and bore cases out of solid metallic bullion? People who want analog RGB can eaily mod their SNES with cables and whatnot. I don't even own a tv that supports rgb but can still game on the tube any time with composite/fr and if I choose, even play that super scope bazooka safari game that won't work with flat panels.

 

I'm not going to pay twice as much to get what little additional perks could be better served with stock hardware and a tube tv. If I want that, I'll get it from stock hardware. The HD upgrade is what I'm focused on getting out of this package, and if I get jailbreak firmware it's a bonus. So in this scenario, I applaud them for providing a more streamlined, affordable package.

I wonder how much of the price differential between the NT Mini comes from axing the DAC.

Cost savings from NT Mini -> Super NT:

-Plastic shell instead of aluminum

-2 controller ports instead of 4

-1 cartridge slot instead of 2

-No Famicom expansion port or microphone port

-Maybe no USB port for controller charging (not sure if we've seen every angle of the system yet)?

-USB power supply (idk if this is a savings)

-No bundled controller/receiver

-No Video/Audio DAC

 

Cost increases:

-Bigger/more powerful FPGA

 

Needless to say, none of this includes the R&D costs, which Analogue have mentioned has partially allowed them to reach this price point. I'm okay with all of the above cost savings except the DAC. However, if axing the DAC was necessary to get to a sub 200$ price point, I'd say that was probably the right business move. We should want these FPGA systems to be as widely sold as possible, because thats how we eventually get to something like the Zimba 3000, even if it ends up being an open source box with cores developed by people inspired by Kevtris' work rather than Kevtris himself. My main objection to no analog video is that it makes the Super NT not quite a full replacement for an OEM SNES in the way the NT Mini was for NES/Famicom.

 

But either way, I have an NT Mini and pre-ordered a Super NT, and will probably buy every console Analogue releases for the forseeable future. That had me thinking about an Analogue Genesis. The fact that Genesis used a 9-pin controller port means that we'd be able to use all those wacky old school controllers for Atari, Colecovision, Astrocade and stuff right? (Assuming any cores get ported).

[Neonstreetlight]

Hi everyone! New to the forums and glad to meet you all. I just purchased an Analogue Nt Mini and nearly everything works perfectly on it.

 

One game that isnt working is Beauty and the Beast (NES, PAL). It loads up but the gameplay is incredibly glitchy. Has anyone else run into this issue?

 

I also tried running Super Mario Bros. 2 (J) conversion and it fails to load. My Doki Doki Panic FDS conversion rom works perfectly off the SD card, however.

 

Any advice or thoughts is much appreciated and hopefully I can be of help myself at some point in the future.

[cfillak]

 

One game that isnt working is Beauty and the Beast (NES, PAL). It loads up but the gameplay is incredibly glitchy. Has anyone else run into this issue?

 

Are you running it from the cartridge? Does the ROM of this game work from the SD card? The cartridge contact pins are probably dirty, try cleaning them with a cue tip and isopropyl alcohol:

http://retrorgb.com/cleangames.html

[Neonstreetlight]

Are you running it from the cartridge? Does the ROM of this game work from the SD card? The cartridge contact pins are probably dirty, try cleaning them with a cue tip and isopropyl alcohol:

http://retrorgb.com/cleangames.html

Thanks for the reply! I am running the game off the SD card. I downloaded a few different roms and have had the same issue with all of them. I’ve never gotten the game to work on any console I’ve had (including a Hi-Def modded AV Famicom using an everdrve).

 

Other PAL games are running great in PAL mode but this one seems to be the exception.

[cfillak]

Thanks for the reply! I am running the game off the SD card. I downloaded a few different roms and have had the same issue with all of them. I’ve never gotten the game to work on any console I’ve had (including a Hi-Def modded AV Famicom using an everdrve).

 

Other PAL games are running great in PAL mode but this one seems to be the exception.

 

Could you provide an md5 hash of the ROM you're using? Are you using a ROM from a well known set like Smokemonster or No-Intro? I'll test the version of the ROM I have.

[Neonstreetlight]

Could you provide an md5 hash of the ROM you're using? Are you using a ROM from a well known set like Smokemonster or No-Intro? I'll test the version of the ROM I have.

Do you know where I could find the MD5 hash? I’m using the rom from Smokemonster and tried a few random roms I googled as well. They all have the same result. The intro looks mostly correct, but the gameplay appears to shake up and down.

[cfillak]

Ok I did some testing with this ROM from the smokemonster pack, stick with that one. What kind of display and video output are you using? You have to change the video mode to PAL mode, it doesnt happen automatically. Press Down+Select then Start to access video options and change to PAL mode. By doing this, I got the rom to run correctly on a Samsung 4KTV via HDMI. I am not sure if all HDTVs sold in NTSC/Western markets accept PAL 50hz signals or exactly how Kevtris handles this in his FPGA implementation. I have a Sony BVM which will sync with a wide range of refresh rates including PAL 50hz, and it worked on that display via Component (YPbPr) cable. The ROM will not work with the consumer NTSC CRT set I tested with via Composite on PAL mode, as the display doesn't sync and can't understand the colors.

 

So bottom line is I don't think there's anything wrong with the ROM. I got the garbled graphics you described when playing it in NTSC mode, and switching to PAL mode will make it work depending on the display you're using.

Edited November 30, 2017 by cfillak

[gulps]

Look into the MiSTer, it's exactly what you describe minus the Kevtris cores. Instead it has many open source cores including arcades and computers. It supports lots of USB controllers and adapters for original gamepads.

 

Neither the Analogue NT or the Super NT have 3rd party support right now. This MiSTer is built on top of an FPGA development board (Terasic DE10 Nano Kit) so it's fully open and documented. There is also one person looking at porting it to a cheaper board (DE0 Nano), giving up HDMI and some FPGA space for the price difference ($99 instead of $130).

 

http://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

 

Edit: I appreciate that the Kevtris cores are done to a higher standard but it's really two different markets. If you have development in mind these boards are a better investment, and aren't too pricey either. You can help improve what's missing from the cores too

 

The NT machines are better for those looking at an end product without any intents of development. That said it's limited to consoles, while the MiSter boards have computer cores as well (Amiga, c64, AppleII, Mac+, Acorn Archimedes, PC 386, ZX Spectrum, Sam Coupe, etc).

 

Yeah! Two different things!

 

 

Nt Mini is a luxurious "perfect" NES (now 8bit "general purpouse") machine, with great options and connections as described (great aluminium enclosure, analogue and digital output, ...) from a private company.

 

MiSTer is a great open source FPGA ("hybrid" ) project with awesome features (Linux, HDMI, Ethernet, ...) from the retro-friendly community.

 

 

I like them both due Nt Mini has a great engineer that has released their cores for free (yes, Nt Mini is a little costly) on it and they works like a charm And MiST/MiSTer has a great community behind.

 

 

I hope soon the Atari ST from MiST* will be ported. And hope they will started the Atari Falcon development. But the developers need the paid work to eat. This is a free "charity" work at their own free time. Like kevtris Jailbreak.

 

 

* There are a little companies selling MiST (with enclose). When more companies are behind indicates more interest for the final user (consumer), bringing new developers and growing the community (like Linux, RaspberryPi, Arduino, ... ). And this is when the price point falls due more demand

[Schizophretard]

Honestly I feel the budget friendly option here with best possible quality at an affordable price is better deal going forward compared to let's cram every feature under the sun and spare no expense by making functional art rather than an everyman's console. HD is the primary selling point so why maintain multiple outputs and bore cases out of solid metallic bullion? People who want analog RGB can eaily mod their SNES with cables and whatnot. I don't even own a tv that supports rgb but can still game on the tube any time with composite/fr and if I choose, even play that super scope bazooka safari game that won't work with flat panels.

 

I'm not going to pay twice as much to get what little additional perks could be better served with stock hardware and a tube tv. If I want that, I'll get it from stock hardware. The HD upgrade is what I'm focused on getting out of this package, and if I get jailbreak firmware it's a bonus. So in this scenario, I applaud them for providing a more streamlined, affordable package.

 

For me the main selling point of these FPGA consoles is similar to one of the reasons for embracing emulation. People embrace it as software to replace the original hardware for when the original hardware isn't an option. For me it is the same thing except new hardware to replace the original hardware instead of software. You know, like the selling point of other NES or Super NES clones but with the reason to choose an Analogue one over the others is for more accuracy.

 

Let's pretend instead of the Super Nt we are talking about another Super NES clone and I'm giving constructive criticism about why it isn't perfect replacement hardware for the Super NES. Like maybe it doesn't work with flash carts. So, I say,"The only issue I have with this clone is that it doesn't work with flash carts. So, even if I bought it I would still have to leave my Super NES plugged in to use my flash cart." Then your rebuttal to my constructive criticism is,"But the selling point of this clone is [fill in the blank] and if you want to use your flash cart you can just use your Super NES. So, I don't really see an issue." That kind of rebuttal doesn't make any sense to me. It is like disagreeing by agreeing because the point of my constructive criticism is that I still have to leave my Super NES plugged in to use my flash cart and the solution offered is that I can just leave my Super NES plugged in to use my flash cart. The solution isn't a solution if the whole point of my constructive criticism is that I can't unplug my 20 something year old Super NES and replace it with a fresh off the assembly line NIB Super NES clone to use as replacement hardware. Now with the Super Nt just switch out flash carts for CRT's.

 

I agree that HD is a selling point but it isn't the primary selling point because there are many devices that output HDMI to emulate a Super NES on a flat panel. Many may be reading this on one right now. The big elephant in the room differentiator that is the primary selling point is that it is the only device with an FPGA with a Super NES core designed and programmed by Kevtris in it. With that in mind if I am looking for replacement hardware for my Super NES then isn't this the best place for me to say,"This would be perfect replacement hardware for my Super NES if it had analog outputs."? Or is there some other Super NES clone manufacturer that I should be voicing this concern with?

 

Anyway, equating aluminum shells with basic functions of the Super NES like the ability to hook it up to your TV is getting old and I highly doubt analog outputs would double the price. Especially if a Z3K solution was implemented where you wouldn't even be required to buy the analog outputs anyway. If analog outputs are so damn expensive I wonder why most cheap Super NES clones have them. Besides, since it would work with your Super Scope you could sell your Super NES to get back some or all of the money for the price difference. Perfect replacement hardware saves you money as well as space if you don't need the original hardware anymore.

[Newsdee]

. With that in mind if I am looking for replacement hardware for my Super NES then isn't this the best place for me to say,"This would be perfect replacement hardware for my Super NES if it had analog outputs."?

 

Isn't it possible to downconvert HDMI to an analog output with an outside box? It must be cheaper than the other way around.

Certainly purists might prefer an all-in-one solution, and many downconverters are crappy, but I do wonder if it's viable and in that case it would count as a replacement, wouldn't it?

[Kismet]

I agree that HD is a selling point but it isn't the primary selling point because there are many devices that output HDMI to emulate a Super NES on a flat panel. Many may be reading this on one right now. The big elephant in the room differentiator that is the primary selling point is that it is the only device with an FPGA with a Super NES core designed and programmed by Kevtris in it. With that in mind if I am looking for replacement hardware for my Super NES then isn't this the best place for me to say,"This would be perfect replacement hardware for my Super NES if it had analog outputs."? Or is there some other Super NES clone manufacturer that I should be voicing this concern with?

 

Anyway, equating aluminum shells with basic functions of the Super NES like the ability to hook it up to your TV is getting old and I highly doubt analog outputs would double the price. Especially if a Z3K solution was implemented where you wouldn't even be required to buy the analog outputs anyway. If analog outputs are so damn expensive I wonder why most cheap Super NES clones have them. Besides, since it would work with your Super Scope you could sell your Super NES to get back some or all of the money for the price difference. Perfect replacement hardware saves you money as well as space if you don't need the original hardware anymore.

 

There is only one device that will play ALL SNES carts and output HDMI. Only the SuperScope games will not be playable and that is no different from the NT Mini by HDMI with the zapper. Hence the only real reason to ask for Analog outputs would be to use the SuperScope. People who have a SuperScope, likely have the physical cartridge, and I'm not aware of any aftermarket ones.

 

The Retron5 and RetroFreak do not play all SNES carts because they do not emulate the SNES hardware interface. They simply do a "dump and run" and then use a software core on a conventional ARM chip. Neither of these devices are accurate or low latency, and I'd probably argue that the RetroFreak is the only one that is even viable. At $200+ USD, both of these. The Super NT is cheaper than the RetroFreak, plays all Super NES games and flash carts, and offers 1080p. The Retron5 probably costs less than $30 to make, and kevtris took one of them apart already and pointed out that it's basically rubbish (The other Retron models use reverse-engineered chips, but only do analog output because that's all they were designed to do.) It's very likely that the Retron 5 developer likely did what they did to cut out these chip manufacturers, which can't play carts with expansion chips either.)

 

 

So the only competition to the Super NT is in fact the original SNES/SFC.