FPGA Based Videogame System

[pablum]

Kevtris could probably implement at least the Sega CD if he was given enough time and budget, but the problem is the Super NT's $189.99 price point set a new benchmark for Analogue.

 

A Mega NT Sega CD built in would probably be $300+ because of the FPGA or FPGAs needed to make that happen. They will want to shoot for a $189.99 price point again, so that pretty much kills any chance of Sega CD support happening.

 

Also, how would they advterise Sega CD feature if the Mega NT didn't come with a disc drive? They can't promote ISOs.

Probably would need a second FPGA for a Sega CD, but they could probably get around that if they daisy-chained two consoles together. Would still need an optical drive, but a USB port that supported plug and play disc drives could be a solution.

 

I don't think any of that would happen, btw. Add-ons are not what makes the classic systems the classics they remain today.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Deleted because the person I was replying too has been banned from topic. Nothing to see here, moving on...

Edited February 13, 2018 by Kosmic Stardust

[Pixelboy]

Sorry if I seem like a stick-in-the-mud of sorts, but I fail to understand this fixation with the Sega CD and the 32X. I mean, just creating a high-quality FPGA solution for the plain-vanilla Genesis/Mega Drive has to be difficult enough for Kevtris, what the heck is the rush anyway?

 

I'm thinking that in about 3 to 8 years, stronger FPGAs will come along and be affordable enough to implement big and scary hardware like the Sega CD and the 32X. Whether someone (Kevtris or someone else) tackles such advanced projects is another question altogether, but the real point is that, currently, we're just not there yet.

 

So why put all this pressure on Kevtris when a plain Genesis FPGA would all by itself cover over 700 Genesis cartridges and put a smile on the faces of Sega fans?

 

I would invite you guys to start a new forum thread on the subject if you can't help discussing hardware that today's FPGAs cannot realistically/affordably cover.

 

I don't have my Super NT yet, but it's only a question of time. From the online reviews I've seen so far, it's clear Kevtris has outdone himself and I'm glad he's putting all this time and effort in creating such wonderful hardware.

 

to Kevtris!

[RabidWookie]

If someone takes advantage of you then you can either take it or take advantage of them back. But for like the 50th time a jailbreak is obviously coming so it doesn't matter.

They'd be taking advantage of you by not giving you something they never said they'd give you, thus justifying you stealing money from them or the bank? In all seriousness, do you have a learning disability?

[mrpopsicleman]

Just read on Nerdly Pleasures that the SNES PowerPak will not load games on the Super NT. I'm going to get a SD2SNES when I can afford it, but I was really hoping to use my PowerPak in the meantime. Has anyone heard any word on this issue?

The SNES Powerpak works fine on mine, but I'm using the custom firmware by Ramsis.

http://www.manuloewe.de/main/index.php?/pages/snespowerpak.html

[SegaSnatcher]

Sorry if I seem like a stick-in-the-mud of sorts, but I fail to understand this fixation with the Sega CD and the 32X. I mean, just creating a high-quality FPGA solution for the plain-vanilla Genesis/Mega Drive has to be difficult enough for Kevtris, what the heck is the rush anyway?

 

I'm thinking that in about 3 to 8 years, stronger FPGAs will come along and be affordable enough to implement big and scary hardware like the Sega CD and the 32X. Whether someone (Kevtris or someone else) tackles such advanced projects is another question altogether, but the real point is that, currently, we're just not there yet.

 

So why put all this pressure on Kevtris when a plain Genesis FPGA would all by itself cover over 700 Genesis cartridges and put a smile on the faces of Sega fans?

 

I would invite you guys to start a new forum thread on the subject if you can't help discussing hardware that today's FPGAs cannot realistically/affordably cover.

 

I don't have my Super NT yet, but it's only a question of time. From the online reviews I've seen so far, it's clear Kevtris has outdone himself and I'm glad he's putting all this time and effort in creating such wonderful hardware.

 

to Kevtris!

Yeah, I think we will all be happy just with a vanilla FPGA Genesis system, but I guess people are just pondering on the possibilites and the current limitations of FPGAs.

[RabidWookie]

Yeah. Im on the bubble if I should buy a 32x now. I give Kevtris infinite credit so I am sure he could reverse engineer it if analogue does release an eventual genesis FPGA system it would feel incomplete to me without access to the 32x games and the Sega CD games. Of course I get that releasing a mechanical drive system for posterity is a shaker proposition to being with so. . . Meh I can just see buying the whole genesis stack from eBay in my future

I'd recommend buying a 32X, they're only going up in price and getting more rare. I love Kevtris' work and have absolute faith he could bang out a perfect 32X core faster than he thinks. I think Analogue should Kickstart a Sega CD/32X add-on for their inevitable FPGA Genesis if they're concerned that the demand wouldn't justify the time and money spent. Set a goal for the kickstarter that would make it worth their time, they'd be shocked how much demand they see.

Edited February 13, 2018 by RabidWookie

[SubElement]

Just a reminder for people who didn't see it a little while back, Wolf_ has been removed from this thread.

[brentonius]

Yeah, I think we will all be happy just with a vanilla FPGA Genesis system, but I guess people are just pondering on the possibilites and the current limitations of FPGAs.

 

I dunno man. Back in '89, I clearly remember shaking my head, thinking "nope, not getting a Genesis until the 32 bit add on and CD drive come out."

[DarkkOne]

As someone who was a Nintendo kid, I've only ever played Genesis games through emulation. An FPGA Genesis being available would send me immediately out to go and get some cartridges. I'd love a Genesis at the quality of my Super Nt. Honestly, there's something about the ritual of putting the cartridge in and powering the system on, I'm pretty sure even if there were a Genesis core for the Super Nt, I'd still want to have the FPGA Genesis, y'know?

[DadsGlasses]

I havent gotten my Super NT yet, so I havent downloaded the 4.0 firmware yet. What size SD Card is needed?

[SegaSnatcher]

 

I dunno man. Back in '89, I clearly remember shaking my head, thinking "nope, not getting a Genesis until the 32 bit add on and CD drive come out."

I just hope Kevtris knows about all the motherboard revisions and how they all sound different. Model 1 VA2 - VA6 are the ones he should use for reference. Getting that audio chip down will probably be a pita, but probably easier than the SNES audio was.

[SegaSnatcher]

I havent gotten my Super NT yet, so I havent downloaded the 4.0 firmware yet. What size SD Card is needed?

The file is only like 8MBs or so. Basically any modern SD Card will be more than enough.

[cacophony]

I havent gotten my Super NT yet, so I havent downloaded the 4.0 firmware yet. What size SD Card is needed?

 

9 MB if you can find one that big

[RabidWookie]

 

 

Again, generally speaking, you're incorrect.

 

I don't know how else to explain this to you.

 

If you have a 1080P TV with say 70ms of input lag with a 1080 source, that's not good. The delay with a 720 source on that same TV is MOST LIKELY in the same ballpark, and the difference between the two figures is negligible peanuts.

 

On the other hand, if you have a 1080P TV with very low input lag with a 1080 source , again a 720 source will LIKELY be in the same ballpark.

 

An HDTV will either be great across digital sources, or suck across digital sources. I have never encountered a TV with low lag in 1080P and all of a sudden it got worse with 720. I've never read about people complaining either other than you putting forward this unfounded conjecture.

 

So yeah, man. Stop telling people they should avoid 720 on their 1080 sets for fear of this urban legend you've concocted. Knock it off.

You keep saying "ballpark" when what you mean is "additional lag". I know you're emotionally invested in your 720p TV and AVS, but 1080p tvs have to upscale 720p content and that generally adds lag. I'm sorry if that fact offends you.

[DadsGlasses]

The file is only like 8MBs or so. Basically any modern SD Card will be more than enough.

Thanks!

[DadsGlasses]

 

9 MB if you can find one that big

Haha! I think thats doable. Thanks.

[DarkkOne]

You keep saying "ballpark" when what you mean is "additional lag". I know you're emotionally invested in your 720p TV and AVS, but 1080p tvs have to upscale 720p content and that generally adds lag. I'm sorry if that fact offends you.

Upscaling an image from 720p to 1080p is as close to "free" as an operation is going to get in a TV. In some cases there's even going to be *less* input latency, because many TVs perform processing on the image signal that can't be disabled, and a 720p image will be faster in those steps. But even when it is slower, any modern TV will be slower by fractions of a millisecond. And, as I said, in some cases faster.

 

So it's not cut and dry at all, and even in the cases where it is, unless there's a significant flaw in the TV's scaling methods, the amount of added latency is often below the threshold of being consistently measurable, let alone human-noticeable.

 

Generally speaking it's better to send a TV its native resolution for image quality reasons. Latency reasons where an issue a decade ago, but they really shouldn't be these days.

Edited February 13, 2018 by DarkkOne

[keepdreamin]

You keep saying "ballpark" when what you mean is "additional lag". I know you're emotionally invested in your 720p TV and AVS, but 1080p tvs have to upscale 720p content and that generally adds lag. I'm sorry if that fact offends you.

 

This added lag you keep talking about is probably in the order of microseconds, if it's there, so again. Doesn't effect gameplay and not detectable by human beings using said televsions which is all that matters. Stop spreading misinformation.

 

I'm running 4K with an OSSC, so I'm not sure what you're rambling on about. This set has to scale 1080P 4X to reach the native display resolution, and guess what? The input lag is essentially the same with 4K content, and is actually QUICKER with 1080P

 

So again, knock it off.

Upscaling an image from 720p to 1080p is as close to "free" as an operation is going to get in a TV. In some cases there's even going to be *less* input latency, because many TVs perform processing on the image signal that can't be disabled, and a 720p image will be faster in those steps. But even when it is slower, any modern TV will be slower by fractions of a millisecond. And, as I said, in some cases faster.

 

So it's not cut and dry at all, and even in the cases where it is, unless there's a significant flaw in the TV's scaling methods, the amount of added latency is often below the threshold of being consistently measurable, let alone human-noticeable.

 

Generally speaking it's better to send a TV its native resolution for image quality reasons. Latency reasons where an issue a decade ago, but they really shouldn't be these days.

 

Thank you! This is complete nonsense the guy is spreading. if you talk to anyone familiar with scalers, scanlines, resolution settings is going to tell you the same thing.

 

The TV is either going to be slow or fast with digital inputs. The real added latency is from deinterlacing and poor A/D conversion.

Edited February 13, 2018 by keepdreamin

[DarkkOne]

Not to mention both the NT Mini and Super NT seem to be able to handle upscaling from 240p to 720p or 1080p without falling into a latency-filled pit of doom.

[RabidWookie]

I hope you guys are right, but everything I've ever read from reputable sources indicates TV upscaling leads to extra input lag.

[Great Hierophant]

The SNES Powerpak works fine on mine, but I'm using the custom firmware by Ramsis.

http://www.manuloewe.de/main/index.php?/pages/snespowerpak.html

This is good information, my source did not indicate that the unofficial Ramsis firmware was being used. I do not recall that the Ramsis improved compatibility, it didn't for me when I used to own one.

[RabidWookie]

Not to mention both the NT Mini and Super NT seem to be able to handle upscaling from 240p to 720p or 1080p without falling into a latency-filled pit of doom.

You really think the scaler in the average TV is comparable to the efficiency in Kevtris' FPGA systems?

[keepdreamin]

I hope you guys are right, but everything I've ever read from reputable sources indicates TV upscaling leads to extra input lag.

 

When people talk about scaling lag in regards to retro gaming, people are talking about a set handling analog conversion on it's own. They aren't talking about digital - digital scaling.

 

Analog conversion can actually be sped up by using a device like the Framemeister, or OSSC. How much faster depends on how bad the set is at that task.

 

If people want to set their SuperNT to 720P for the more accurate looking scanlines on sets that are 1080P and 4K. They should go ahead and do so.

Edited February 13, 2018 by keepdreamin

[SegaSnatcher]

I hope you guys are right, but everything I've ever read from reputable sources indicates TV upscaling leads to extra input lag.

 

Rtings shows plenty of 4K Displays which have the same input lag whether fed a 1080p signal or native 4K.