FPGA Based Videogame System

[Jagasian]

I received my second Super NT today, which I ordered from the second batch.

[Jurai]

Is there anything I'm missing on flashing the NT Mini to the jailbreak firmware? It's currently on the official 2.3, but I've tried 2 different 4gb microsd hc cards formatted as fat32 and neither one gets the system to initiate a flash, it just starts up as usual. Not sure if there is some sort of SD hardware type requirement or what not?

[melter]

I think I found a strange audio bug in Arabian Nights - Sabaku no Serei Ou (Japan). During the intro cutscene, a few mins in, there is a part where Ifrit wakes up from bed. When that scene starts, it seems like one of the high pitched notes hangs and gets louder and louder to the point where I had to dash for my remote to mute the TV because it felt like it was about to blow out my eardrums. This continues for about a minute until the explosion happens that stops the background music. I do not beleive this happens on Higan.

 

Can someone please test?

Edited March 7, 2018 by melter

[Andromeda Stardust]

Thank you.

Unpleasant honestly looked way worse when I had the gradient drawn in my application compared to reality.

I'll also have to make color blending a toggleable option per keyframe so I can do stuff like your police pattern. That does look pretty neat!

The police pattern is 64 nibbles (one nibble equals 4 bytes). Basically four frames on, four frames off , repeat 8 times for red, blue, and white, 64 frames each color. Then the final segment, I cycle red/blue/white five times. This makes 60 frames for the final segment, add a buffer of 4 black frames to complete the pattern. So the police pattern was comparatively easy to draw in the hex editor because I could copy/paste the same repeating data over and over. My "improved rainbow" palette took over an hour to do because I had to type every value manually into the editor, but barring any human input errors, it is mathematically perfect. Every single frame increments one color by 3 and decrements another by 3. No two frames are identical except the first and the last which are red (ff0000). Because there are three primary colors and 255 is divisible by 3, each color cycle takes exactly 85 frames. So frame 255 is identical to frame zero. That's my level of perfectionism. I don't think I could sleep at night if each step in a gradient didn't increment precicely the same integer step. LOL!

 

Not going through that level of ocd again. Hexadecimal mental math operations and hand typed values, uggg. Any future palettes I do will be composed as a 256x1 pixel bitmap. Just trim the bitmap header off in a hex editor and save as a *.pat extension. If you want smooth transitions, start with smaller pixel count and use bilinear scaling. For hard transitions, use nearest neighbor.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Well, it's thrown together in a haste but the application works well enough for me as it is right now so I'm not gonna invest any more time into it.

Here's how the interface is looks:

 

 

 

Works simple enough. Choose a duration, click "Add new key", choose a color and confirm to add a new key frame.

Color of a key frame can be changed by double clicking an entry.

Double right click to delete an entry.

Clicking on an entry with the middle mouse button changes the length of it to the number currently entered into the duration field.

Drag and drop entries to change the order.

The "Blend" checkbox decides whether or not the color will be blended into the next one in it's duration.

The .pat file can be saved by clicking "Export"

 

https://www.virustotal.com/de/file/2b34fa93fa19430c3eb52eff1636d97e0dd4fb438c2549f078a96e0cd442d770/analysis/1520369128/

Thanks, will test out later. You may have saved me some work.

 

I may still try out my bitmap idea and give feedback, and see if bilinear scalining at integer ratios truly creates linear gradients. One potential issue with pixel bitmaps, is the first and last color won't be blended after scaling. Workaround would be repeat the desired pattern 3 times using copy/paste, then scale to 768 width, and crop the resultant image to the center 256 pixels.

[lordvader]

Is there a list of recommended advanced settings somewhere in this forum?
It's pretty hard to search, and the only place I've seen recommended settings is in the My Life In Gaming review (but the settings displayed in the video crop HEAPS - it's only the in game settings he shows which seem to work OK).

[Jakir]

Is there a list of recommended advanced settings somewhere in this forum?

It's pretty hard to search, and the only place I've seen recommended settings is in the My Life In Gaming review (but the settings displayed in the video crop HEAPS - it's only the in game settings he shows which seem to work OK).

The alternative seems to be setting the width to 1462 and height to 1200 but you lose 60 pixels from the top and bottom that way. In most games that doesn't matter at all but in some games you may need to adjust the vertical position to view more of the top or bottom.

[SegaSnatcher]

Is there a list of recommended advanced settings somewhere in this forum?

It's pretty hard to search, and the only place I've seen recommended settings is in the My Life In Gaming review (but the settings displayed in the video crop HEAPS - it's only the in game settings he shows which seem to work OK).

+1149 height should not crop unless your TV has overscan enabled. See if you can turn it off via your TVs settings.

[Forsaken]

Not going through that level of ocd again. Hexadecimal mental math operations and hand typed values, uggg. Any future palettes I do will be composed as a 256x1 pixel bitmap. Just trim the bitmap header off in a hex editor and save as a *.pat extension. If you want smooth transitions, start with smaller pixel count and use bilinear scaling. For hard transitions, use nearest neighbor.

That's clever, never would have thought of that.

[Kismet]

I think I found a strange audio bug in Arabian Nights - Sabaku no Serei Ou (Japan). During the intro cutscene, a few mins in, there is a part where Ifrit wakes up from bed. When that scene starts, it seems like one of the high pitched notes hangs and gets louder and louder to the point where I had to dash for my remote to mute the TV because it felt like it was about to blow out my eardrums. This continues for about a minute until the explosion happens that stops the background music. I do not beleive this happens on Higan.

 

Can someone please test?

 

I can confirm seeing it on the SD2SNES on 4.4 SNT firmware. It is so loud I had to take my headphones off. Though I'm almost sure it's a bug in the game (I played the translation and it was there.)

 

On the real SNES, translated patch or not, it does not happen.

 

Super NT 4.4 (Arabian Nights - Sabaku no Serei Ou) : Starts at 2:10 minute mark and continues to the 3:40 mark

 

https://mega.nz/#!EuIwgabZ!eA2RBVTUqiGRO1uYQzrBZlwbQnscJT0fCnhxus580yg

Edited March 7, 2018 by Kismet

[SegaSnatcher]

Does anyone see any reason why Analogue would even consider making FPGA Handheld clones? I mean the Analogue NT, NT Mini and Super NT offered obvious advantages over stock original hardware for use on an HDTV.

I guess the only thing that would make sense would be to consolize those handhelds to play on an HDTV, specifically the GBA. I mean there are millions of perfectly working Gameboy handhelds in the wild for handheld use, so I really don't a reason why Analogue would actually come out with their own handheld clones.

[Atariboy]

You're going to just have to wait and see what happens. None of us have an answer.

[SegaSnatcher]

Also, I don't know if Analogue would ever consider doing a 7800/2600 system, but they could probably crank one out for a solid price. They could use a much cheaper FPGA and less ram to keep costs down and of course the plastic case would help in that regard as well. Kevtris already has both those cores at the ready, so all the major R&D has been finished. Just have to layout a PCB, design the shell and come up with a price that people would be willing to pay for such a system.

Don't know if its possible, but if they could hit a $99.99 price point I think it might do decent enough. It will give more people access to those cores who aren't willing to spend $450+ for the NT Mini. plus people could actually use OG controllers or even Sega Genesis controllers.

P.S. I'm just talking out loud and thinking about the future after Analogue gives us Genesis, Neo-Geo and possibly TG-16. You know, where do they go from there? The Super NT has made me so excited for whats coming up next. Everytime I play the thing it gets me giddy thinking about how I might get a similar experience with Genesis games in a not too distant future.

Edited March 7, 2018 by SegaSnatcher

[cacophony]

I think I found a strange audio bug in Arabian Nights - Sabaku no Serei Ou (Japan). During the intro cutscene, a few mins in, there is a part where Ifrit wakes up from bed. When that scene starts, it seems like one of the high pitched notes hangs and gets louder and louder to the point where I had to dash for my remote to mute the TV because it felt like it was about to blow out my eardrums. This continues for about a minute until the explosion happens that stops the background music. I do not beleive this happens on Higan.

 

Can someone please test?

I can confirm seeing it on the SD2SNES on 4.4 SNT firmware. It is so loud I had to take my headphones off. Though I'm almost sure it's a bug in the game (I played the translation and it was there.)

 

On the real SNES, translated patch or not, it does not happen.

 

Super NT 4.4 (Arabian Nights - Sabaku no Serei Ou) : Starts at 2:10 minute mark and continues to the 3:40 mark

 

https://mega.nz/#!EuIwgabZ!eA2RBVTUqiGRO1uYQzrBZlwbQnscJT0fCnhxus580yg

Good find! Can one of you post this issue on github? 4.4 (non-jailbreak) bugs are being tracked there too:

https://github.com/SmokeMonsterPacks/Super-NT-Jailbreak/issues

Edited March 7, 2018 by cacophony

[phoenixdownita]

....

P.S. I'm just talking out loud and thinking about the future after Analogue gives us Genesis, Neo-Geo and possibly TG-16. You know, where do they go from there?

A trip to Fiji comes to mind .... if they give us a JB NeoGeo with adapters for all other systems at say ~250US$ they are set to dominate the complete 8/16 bit retro-console market.

I know kevtris can, will see if they will let him just do that .... dominate!!!!

[SegaSnatcher]

A trip to Fiji comes to mind .... if they give us a JB NeoGeo with adapters for all other systems at say ~250US$ they are set to dominate the complete 8/16 bit retro-console market.

I know kevtris can, will see if they will let him just do that .... dominate!!!!

Unfortunately, the core store is most likely going to be a NT Mini exclusive feature. Adding cores to JB software on other Analogue consoles would pretty much confirm who is behind the JB firmware and since said person is now an employee at Analogue I doubt he will risk doing that. $250 Neo-Geo FPGA console is well worth the price just to play Neo-Geo games on an HDTV.

Edited March 7, 2018 by SegaSnatcher

[phoenixdownita]

Unfortunately, the core store is most likely going to be a NT Mini exclusive feature. Adding cores to JB software on other Analogue consoles would pretty much confirm who is behind the JB firmware and since said person is now an employee at Analogue I doubt he will risk doing that. $250 Neo-Geo FPGA console is well worth the price just to play Neo-Geo games on an HDTV.

You probably already know but:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?274221-NEOSD-PRO-The-New-Terranonion-Neo-Geo-Product-March-2018&p=4277349&viewfull=1#post4277349

 

That baby will cost a pretty penny and it's the flash cart alone, not the whole NeoGeo, so 250US$ would be .... well extremely cheap for NeoGeo land .... likely even at 500US$ would be a smash hit (if JB then it would be a mint)

 

Wrt CoreStore I hope Analogue gives kevtris the green light to release it (maybe excluding the NES ... and avoid lots of grief) ... I doubt anyone would care to make a fuss because of the CV core or the SMS core or the CreatiVision or the 7800 .... you know what I mean ... NES may be "restricted" but the rest of the gang really should not be.

Those poor little cores beg to be released on the wild for all gamers to enjoy .... little cores ... they are frightened .... they have been imprisoned in an aluminum casket

[Shadowgate]

Does anyone see any reason why Analogue would even consider making FPGA Handheld clones? I mean the Analogue NT, NT Mini and Super NT offered obvious advantages over stock original hardware for use on an HDTV.

 

I guess the only thing that would make sense would be to consolize those handhelds to play on an HDTV, specifically the GBA. I mean there are millions of perfectly working Gameboy handhelds in the wild for handheld use, so I really don't a reason why Analogue would actually come out with their own handheld clones.

 

I really doubt it. The problem with handheld clones is sourcing the displays. They would need a stellar but cheap off the shelf solution. If something like that existed the mod market wouldn't be built on the backs of Gameboy advance and DS Lite screens. Cellphone screens are prohibitively expensive. Designing a screen and tooling up for a factory run would require a crazy amount of interest.

 

Playing handheld games on a big screen seems like a pretty small market. Look at the failure of the poor Playstation TV. The Gamecube Gameboy Player and Snes Gameboy are cool but I'm not sure how much of a success they were. They offered neat ways to grow the handheld market but didn't seem to gain much ground as a replacement for it.

[spoonman]

Unfortunately, the core store is most likely going to be a NT Mini exclusive feature. Adding cores to JB software on other Analogue consoles would pretty much confirm who is behind the JB firmware and since said person is now an employee at Analogue I doubt he will risk doing that. $250 Neo-Geo FPGA console is well worth the price just to play Neo-Geo games on an HDTV.

I would love to see the 20 or so Nt Mini cores make their way to the Super Nt. I am a huge fan of the older Atari and Colecovision systems, so to have those on the SNT woiulkd make me happy. Systems that can't be easily modded for modern displays make more sense to me. Since the CV doesn't have native RGB, this would be a great thing.

 

The NeoGeo does have very nice RGB support, some models better than others, but just a simple HD Retrovision cable (Gen Model 2) $53 + $15 NeoGeo AES adapter can tap into that and output via YPbPr Component.

I'm very happy with the quality.

 

Here are a few photos from my Samsung 55" HDTV.

 

 

 

 

 

I love the AES, and have owned one since it's launch in 1990, but I don't think I'd be willing to spend more than $200 on another NeoGeo system. I think it might be better as a $200 system, with SDcard rom loading from the start. Since the dual PCB pinout configuration would likely put the price much higher, sell that as an addon.

I'm sure many people would rather play games this way anyway. Neo gamers seem to fall into the category of not wanting to risk wear and tear on their rare AES carts, or they are new to the system and don't want to spend the crazy money necessary needed to buy new games.

[Atariboy]

Also, I don't know if Analogue would ever consider doing a 7800/2600 system, but they could probably crank one out for a solid price. They could use a much cheaper FPGA and less ram to keep costs down and of course the plastic case would help in that regard as well.

 

That hardware isn't so trivial to simulate with a fpga or to emulate in software. I don't know how powerful of a fpga one would need at a minimum, but I imagine we're looking at at least an NT Mini level of power to run his existing work in this area.

 

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130598/back_to_the_classics_perfecting_.php

 

This article by Jeff Vavasour (A member of AtariAge and the founder of Code Mystics) back when the original Digital Eclipse was still running and Atari Anthology was new, is a great read on the subject. In many ways it sounds more significantly more challenging and resource intensive than NES emulation.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Atariboy

[SegaSnatcher]

You probably already know but:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?274221-NEOSD-PRO-The-New-Terranonion-Neo-Geo-Product-March-2018&p=4277349&viewfull=1#post4277349

 

That baby will cost a pretty penny and it's the flash cart alone, not the whole NeoGeo, so 250US$ would be .... well extremely cheap for NeoGeo land .... likely even at 500US$ would be a smash hit (if JB then it would be a mint)

 

Wrt CoreStore I hope Analogue gives kevtris the green light to release it (maybe excluding the NES ... and avoid lots of grief) ... I doubt anyone would care to make a fuss because of the CV core or the SMS core or the CreatiVision or the 7800 .... you know what I mean ... NES may be "restricted" but the rest of the gang really should not be.

Those poor little cores beg to be released on the wild for all gamers to enjoy .... little cores ... they are frightened .... they have been imprisoned in an aluminum casket

Damn, I guess they really don't want DarkSoft to be a competitor lol. Seems like the best worlds to be honest. 3 games that can always be ready on the fly while 1 slot is ram based to load whatever game you want within a matter of seconds.

 

EDIT: Perhaps not, DarkSoft's Flash Cart will still have the price advantage for a Ram based solution and I believe it still loads game noticeably quicker.

Edited March 7, 2018 by SegaSnatcher

[Jakir]

Does anyone see any reason why Analogue would even consider making FPGA Handheld clones? I mean the Analogue NT, NT Mini and Super NT offered obvious advantages over stock original hardware for use on an HDTV.

 

I guess the only thing that would make sense would be to consolize those handhelds to play on an HDTV, specifically the GBA. I mean there are millions of perfectly working Gameboy handhelds in the wild for handheld use, so I really don't a reason why Analogue would actually come out with their own handheld clones.

Kevtris sounded super excited to work on the ps1 and believes that it is possible with current tech so I'm betting that is the next stand alone system Analogue releases because it would fricken print money for them. That said they already have gb, gbc, and gg cores on the nt mini fpga so if they could fit that tech into a handheld device they would just need to design the hardware and print a shell. Also they could totes throw the other nt mini cores on there if it was using the nt mini fpga and you could have a handheld nes, a2600, a7800, master system, and maybe even genesis eventually. That would be a damn tempting handheld.

 

Also, I don't know if Analogue would ever consider doing a 7800/2600 system, but they could probably crank one out for a solid price. They could use a much cheaper FPGA and less ram to keep costs down and of course the plastic case would help in that regard as well. Kevtris already has both those cores at the ready, so all the major R&D has been finished. Just have to layout a PCB, design the shell and come up with a price that people would be willing to pay for such a system.

 

Don't know if its possible, but if they could hit a $99.99 price point I think it might do decent enough. It will give more people access to those cores who aren't willing to spend $450+ for the NT Mini. plus people could actually use OG controllers or even Sega Genesis controllers.

 

P.S. I'm just talking out loud and thinking about the future after Analogue gives us Genesis, Neo-Geo and possibly TG-16. You know, where do they go from there? The Super NT has made me so excited for whats coming up next. Everytime I play the thing it gets me giddy thinking about how I might get a similar experience with Genesis games in a not too distant future.

I agree it is unlikely we would ever see a standalone atari fpga console but we might get one included in a handheld if they ever make it. And with any luck the cores will get ported to the super nt jb. Kevtris said it would be easy to do and *whoever* released the super nt jb sure seems handy with their coding so I hope they have the skills to accomplish it.

 

I would love to see the 20 or so Nt Mini cores make their way to the Super Nt. I am a huge fan of the older Atari and Colecovision systems, so to have those on the SNT woiulkd make me happy. Systems that can't be easily modded for modern displays make more sense to me. Since the CV doesn't have native RGB, this would be a great thing.

 

The NeoGeo does have very nice RGB support, some models better than others, but just a simple HD Retrovision cable (Gen Model 2) $53 + $15 NeoGeo AES adapter can tap into that and output via YPbPr Component.

I'm very happy with the quality.

 

Here are a few photos from my Samsung 55" HDTV.

 

I love the AES, and have owned one since it's launch in 1990, but I don't think I'd be willing to spend more than $200 on another NeoGeo system. I think it might be better as a $200 system, with SDcard rom loading from the start. Since the dual PCB pinout configuration would likely put the price much higher, sell that as an addon.

I'm sure many people would rather play games this way anyway. Neo gamers seem to fall into the category of not wanting to risk wear and tear on their rare AES carts, or they are new to the system and don't want to spend the crazy money necessary needed to buy new games.

I think you are overlooking the fact that many people love the Neo Geo but don't already have the literal several grand invested into owning one and a few games. Also having lagless digital video is still a feature many Neo Geo owners would be willing to drop $200 on. Not to mention with any luck it would get a jb and give you the chance to experience the Neo Geo library without having to sell your house.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Jakir

[SegaSnatcher]

Kevtris sounded super excited to work on the ps1 and believes that it is possible with current tech so I'm betting that is the next stand alone system Analogue releases because it would fricken print money for them. That said they already have gb, gbc, and gg cores on the nt mini fpga so if they could fit that tech into a handheld device they would just need to design the hardware and print a shell. Also they could totes throw the other nt mini cores on there if it was using the nt mini fpga and you could have a handheld nes, a2600, a7800, master system, and maybe even genesis eventually. That would be a damn tempting handheld.

 

I agree it is unlikely we would ever see a standalone atari fpga console but we might get one included in a handheld if they ever make it. And with any luck the cores will get ported to the super nt jb. Kevtris said it would be easy to do and *whoever* released the super nt jb sure seems handy with their coding so I hope they have the skills to accomplish it.

 

I think you are overlooking the fact that many people love the Neo Geo but don't already have the literal several grand invested into owning one and a few games. Also having lagless digital video is still a feature many Neo Geo owners would be willing to drop $200 on. Not to mention with any luck it would get a jb and give you the chance to experience the Neo Geo library without having to sell your house.

Analogue strongly hinted they are working on Genesis next, then it will most likely be Neo-Geo. I guestion how PS1 will work unless they will include a CD Rom drive. I doubt they would release a console that is advertised to run ISOs.

[Jakir]

Analogue strongly hinted they are working on Genesis next, then it will most likely be Neo-Geo. I guestion how PS1 will work unless they will include a CD Rom drive. I doubt they would release a console that is advertised to run ISOs.

I know they mentioned the TurboGrafx and Genesis as likely next projects but because Kevtris said the Ps1 is doable and that would probably generate a lot more money for them I think that is the most likely. I just know if I was Analogue I would do the ps1 ASAP so I could buy that private island I've always dreamed of.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Jakir

[Pixelboy]

I know they mentioned the TurboGrafx and Genesis as likely next projects but because Kevtris said the Ps1 is doable and that would probably generate a lot more money for them I think that is the most likely. I just know if I was Analogue I would do the ps1 ASAP so I could buy that private island I've always dreamed of.

PS1 would be a logical choice in terms of potential sales, but I see a few problems:

 

1) Are the components for CD drives still available today? I would guess so, but it may not be as trivial as many people think. But then again, if you just integrate an off-the-shelf CD drive made for PCs into the casing of your FPGA console, then you're good to go.

 

2) Don't CDs decay over time? Even ignoring the issue of scratches on the discs, don't CDs become unreadable eventually? I guess people could burn ISOs onto CDs and play PS1 games that way...

 

3) Will Sony unleash their lawyers on Analogue like they did with Bleem? Today is a different era, so they may not, but it's still something to consider.

 

A PS1 FPGA clone would certainly stand on its own (even without a jailbreak core to play ISOs from an SD card) but people will be begging for Sega CD support and perhaps even PC Engine support. But that only works if the CD drives operate at the same speed on all three systems, and I'm not sure that's the case...