FPGA Based Videogame System

[mario64]

Is there any ETA on the new and improved scanlines?

I asked Kevtris a few posts before yours. Sadly no response

[phoenixdownita]

Wrt the speculated upon "Analogue MegaGenny" I think we can say that even if it would be on a different market level than any of the past/current/future AtGames offering (without even speaking of quality here as that word even after 10+ years still does not apply to AtGames when it comes to Sega stuff), it would wipe their market dry .... casual gamer or not if you ever bought 2+ of their iterations and are waiting on finally yet another one to solve the issues of yesteryears it's so obvious by now that kevtris FPGA version would mop the floor with it making any money you throw at them just wrong.

 

EDIT: maybe they call it the Analogue SG (as a homage to the SG-1000)

[SegaSnatcher]

I don't give a shi* what they call it, I'll literally pay whatever for a proper Genesis clone with HDMI out. I've been dreaming about a FPGA Genesis clone ever since the AVS and NT Mini came about and showed us how good clones can be with the right hardware and engineer behind them. I love my AVS and Super NT, but a FPGA Genesis console is the one I want most, especially if Kevtris is behind it.

While playing on my Super NT I can't help but think about the potential of having a similar experience with Genesis games, its gets me so excited.

[Tanooki]

I don't think a Sega one would be all that financially viable. The hardware is dead, and it has been repeatedly whored out so many times by Sega on their own download and physical media compilations and then the handheld and TV versions with ATGames (and even a few Radica devices too) that I don't think enough would pony up $200~ for one to make it profitable. It's a nice idea, but seems doomed. If that 2018 or 2019 ATGames Sega that runs carts (and the eventual non sucky handheld) get up to a near 100% level of awesomeness at the price point this sit.

[Pixelboy]

I don't think a Sega one would be all that financially viable. The hardware is dead, and it has been repeatedly whored out so many times by Sega on their own download and physical media compilations and then the handheld and TV versions with ATGames (and even a few Radica devices too) that I don't think enough would pony up $200~ for one to make it profitable. It's a nice idea, but seems doomed.

Also, Genesis with HMDI has already been done:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=tJoJAo7BQjc

[mr_me]

MiSTer has a Genesis FPGA core.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

[scott64]

I don't want more units under my TV. I hope Analogue's next project replaces several older consoles at once.

Ideally I'd like to be able to switch between Genesis/SNES/NES etc without even getting off the couch.

[cybercylon]

With jail breaking, you can play games from all three on the Mini NT. Of course, that is expensive and not available for sale at the moment (my guess is it won't be in the form that it exists in...).

[scott64]

Listen up Analogue - the future of aftermarket retro gaming consoles is internet connectivity. Think of the possibilities, play roms from a shared folder on your PC, download and apply IPS patches while browsing right on the console, "scrape" box art and metadata for games, scoreboards, net-play? discord app???

[LewisD]

Listen up Analogue - the future of aftermarket retro gaming consoles is internet connectivity. Think of the possibilities, play roms from a shared folder on your PC, download and apply IPS patches while browsing right on the console, "scrape" box art and metadata for games, scoreboards, net-play? discord app???

No. Go play with the half dozen emulator front ends that offer that crap. The simplicity of the Nt Mini and Super Nt are their greatest assets.

[phoenixdownita]

I don't want more units under my TV. I hope Analogue's next project replaces several older consoles at once.

 

Ideally I'd like to be able to switch between Genesis/SNES/NES etc without even getting off the couch.

 

With jail breaking, you can play games from all three on the Mini NT. Of course, that is expensive and not available for sale at the moment (my guess is it won't be in the form that it exists in...).

Since when? The Nt Mini plays NES (and with jailbreak a bunch of 8bits) but no SNES or Genny .... so which 3 are you referring to?

 

EDIT: I am personal only interested in an Nt Mini for NES/SMS/maybe Coleco cores ... everything else on it I have no personal interest, so it makes the current (lack of) offerings a non starter, again just for me. I do play my Super Nt and I would play a Genny kevtris FPGA creation for sure ... even better if they could be consolidated in the same physical device.

Mind you I am not saying the rest of the cores on the Nt Mini are bad or anything, far from it, but that I personally would not pay for them even if given the chance (I know they are free) AND I would likely just play them as a curiosity a couple of times and forget all about them, I know other people went kaboom on them and that makes the Nt Mini a perfect fit for them, great.

[SegaSnatcher]

I don't think a Sega one would be all that financially viable. The hardware is dead, and it has been repeatedly whored out so many times by Sega on their own download and physical media compilations and then the handheld and TV versions with ATGames (and even a few Radica devices too) that I don't think enough would pony up $200~ for one to make it profitable. It's a nice idea, but seems doomed. If that 2018 or 2019 ATGames Sega that runs carts (and the eventual non sucky handheld) get up to a near 100% level of awesomeness at the price point this sit.

The people who would be in the market for a Analogue Mega NT is totally different from those that are interesated in those cheap chinese clones. If anything all those shitty clones have built up a strong desire for a legit Genesis clone made by a reputable company. Sega Genesis fans are some of the most hardcore out there and would definitely pony up for a more premium experience on an HDTV. The majority of people waiting for an Analogue Genesis Mini are currently using OG Genesis/MegaDrive hardware to play Genesis games.

[SegaSnatcher]

Also, Genesis with HMDI has already been done:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=tJoJAo7BQjc

LOL, simply being HDMI doesn't mean jack.

 

1. Its using the same garbage Genesis on a Chip to simulate Genesis hardware and it does it pretty poorly.

 

2. The HDMI scaler in those clones are absolute garbage and most likely have added input lag.

 

3. There are none of the features that one could expect from an Analogue Genesis Mini.

 

Its not at all comparable to what Analogue will release.

 

Remember there were already HDMI SNES clones before the Super NT came out and that didn't stop the Super NT from selling out.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Listen up Analogue - the future of aftermarket retro gaming consoles is internet connectivity. Think of the possibilities, play roms from a shared folder on your PC, download and apply IPS patches while browsing right on the console, "scrape" box art and metadata for games, scoreboards, net-play? discord app???

I strongly disagree with this statement.

 

Internet connectivity is the primary reason why many modern consoles and games will cease to function after future server sunset, or at least have extremely degraded usability. Firmware updates cannot be installed unless provided offline using late release physical game media. Physical games will be stuck without day one updates and may be unplayable or buggy. At the very least, bugfixes, future dlc content, free or paid, will be locked out forever. Furthermore download only games will be lost forever except through softmodfing and piracy.

 

Adding bluetooth or wifi chips to a retro console adds cost to the hardware and is unecessary if the console is to interface wired controllers and physical carts. Also internet connectivity requires money to run the servers which provide content. When the console is no longer commercially viable, the servers are turned off to save costs. Prividing downloadable firmware updates via an sd card ensures that the console will continue to be usable and upgradeable even long after the parent company (analogue in this case) is dead and gone. People can share firmwares or post them online, even add future functionality to them.

[scott64]

I strongly disagree with this statement.

 

Internet connectivity is the primary reason why many modern consoles and games will cease to function after future server sunset, or at least have extremely degraded usability. Firmware updates cannot be installed unless provided offline using late release physical game media. Physical games will be stuck without day one updates and may be unplayable or buggy. At the very least, bugfixes, future dlc content, free or paid, will be locked out forever. Furthermore download only games will be lost forever except through softmodfing and piracy.

 

Adding bluetooth or wifi chips to a retro console adds cost to the hardware and is unecessary if the console is to interface wired controllers and physical carts. Also internet connectivity requires money to run the servers which provide content. When the console is no longer commercially viable, the servers are turned off to save costs. Prividing downloadable firmware updates via an sd card ensures that the console will continue to be usable and upgradeable even long after the parent company (analogue in this case) is dead and gone. People can share firmwares or post them online, even add future functionality to them.

Those are all very real problems that affect modern consoles, but I think if Analogue is actually planning on making an FPGA Genesis they're going to need some bells and whistles. I love the Super Nt but I'm not going to rebuy every system they put out in FPGA form unless it can do things that the OG console can't. I think Analogue know what they're doing though and whatever they do next will probably blow us away.

[cacophony]

Those are all very real problems that affect modern consoles, but I think if Analogue is actually planning on making an FPGA Genesis they're going to need some bells and whistles. I love the Super Nt but I'm not going to rebuy every system they put out in FPGA form unless it can do things that the OG console can't. I think Analogue know what they're doing though and whatever they do next will probably blow us away.

 

They need to make a turn-key product that's an accurate simulation of the Genesis with zero added lag, crisp 1080p output, and an attractive enclosure. If that sell that for under $200 they'll sell boatloads of them because they have no real competition at this point. The only extra feature I want is the ability to play roms off the sd card.

[atmn]

I also agree to disagree, internet connectivity isnt a solution.

 

 

I also dont wish for another FPGA console next year from analogue, rather hope that 2018 will be a software year that improves the capability for the current consoles.

 

The most wanted things are in the jailbreak branch, if there where a patreon for the mystery jailbreak man that could make him say no to another big projects for a year.

I also would say yes to paid work as well over unpaid work.

 

But with patreon etc it comes with a, "I paid this, now I expect that". I would like a kind a donation that wont pressure or promise anything. Just giving what he deserves.

[Reaperman]

edited: Y'know what, never mind.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Reaperman

[Pixelboy]

LOL, simply being HDMI doesn't mean jack.

 

1. Its using the same garbage Genesis on a Chip to simulate Genesis hardware and it does it pretty poorly.

Can you point to any part of the video I posted that shows this particular Genesis clone does anything poorly? I'm not saying the device is flawless, but your statement seems pretty broad and biased to me.

 

 

2. The HDMI scaler in those clones are absolute garbage and most likely have added input lag.

 

3. There are none of the features that one could expect from an Analogue Genesis Mini.

 

Its not at all comparable to what Analogue will release.

Agreed, but at a 60$ price point, people are necessarily going to wonder just how much they need the Analogue "deluxe" product. If they only play with their collection of Genesis carts occasionally, and they don't mind the slightly limited/inferior HD output (compared to what Analogue's product is poised to provide) perhaps they'll just settle for the inferior clone, and save over 100$ in the process. You do bring up an interesting question about input lag though, that could be a deal-breaker for many potential buyers.

 

 

Remember there were already HDMI SNES clones before the Super NT came out and that didn't stop the Super NT from selling out.

I don't mean to play devil's advocate, but I'd say you're comparing apples to oranges. Would the Super NT have sold out as fast as it did if it hadn't been an FPGA console, with the unpromised-but-always-possible feature of additional cores? Would it have been as much of a success if the NT Mini (and the impressive batch of free cores nobody saw coming) hadn't come just before it?

 

I'm sure Kevtris/Analogue's next offering will get all the attention and success it deserves, I'm just saying they're not alone in the Sega Genesis arena, and some people have a gaming budget they need to stick to.

[NE146]

Would the Super NT have sold out as fast as it did if it hadn't been an FPGA console, with the unpromised-but-always-possible feature of additional cores? Would it have been as much of a success if the NT Mini (and the impressive batch of free cores nobody saw coming) hadn't come just before it?

 

SNES is pretty darn popular, so I think it would have. I do think the majority of owners bought it exactly for what it was advertised for.. an FPGA SNES. End of story. The side-speculation on additional cores was always just wishful thinking.. not that there's anything wrong with that. But I think those who's decision hinged on that wish is most likely a very small minority.

[F34R]

The SNES Classic selling millions, while the Super NT selling thousands.

[Tanooki]

Ugh pixelboy is right, people are getting a bit too personally invested in this argument over the Genesis. When there is a cheaper HDMI unit out there that runs basically almost anything accurately enough(or just accurately to an untrained and/or not OCD eye) it's going to be a harder sell with the Analogue device if it happened. Also let's face is, Sega is effectively for hardware, dead. They license out the rights to mimic their hardware and license releases of their back library and that's all they care about but they also would likely want to protect that too. There is no HDMI Genesis on the mass market that runs carts other than ATGames fairly solid 2017 offering and the 2018 is a good improvement on the smaller list of issues it had we've read here on the site. It makes it harder for a tiny operation like the NT guys to make a Genesis system that'll undercut them by at least 1/2 price. Analogue only cares about emulator looking bells and whistles, not going into lame online mechanics, box art foo foo, bluetooth and wifi internally, they're about being damn accurate FPGA and barebones, selling even the bluetooth controller on the side as an added accessory.

 

In reality I think they'd want to move on with something there is no competition in and has a name behind it where you could get tens of thousands of orders, not a lucky to scrape by figure. I know the Sega fans will howl here but I'd be far less surprised by them doing a Analogue NT64 before a Genesis. The Genesis at least has HDMI options, the N64 has none unless you go with that $200 something dollar HDMI kit...and hmm, interesting, let's think about this a moment. Kevtris is a good reason why Analogue has their cores for the NT and Super NT, and for the NT he sells that HDMI conversion kit through game-tech for the NES (which I have.) So a lot of the work has been figured out as it is, though a lot more would be needed still the groundwork is already partially done. He works with them, he does his own stuff, it would seem more logical to assume they'd go with what's working they already have some work into than starting from scratch. N64 tech went free range a few years back when the controllers started to pop up, so it's a fair possibility too. The library figuring in the US + unique Japanese and PAL games doesn't I believe top 400, but the base is there enough to justify it, and some games people love are just locked in IP/licensing rights hell (like Goldeneye and the other Rare titles too.)

[Pixelboy]

In reality I think they'd want to move on with something there is no competition in and has a name behind it where you could get tens of thousands of orders, not a lucky to scrape by figure. I know the Sega fans will howl here but I'd be far less surprised by them doing a Analogue NT64 before a Genesis. The Genesis at least has HDMI options, the N64 has none unless you go with that $200 something dollar HDMI kit...and hmm, interesting, let's think about this a moment. Kevtris is a good reason why Analogue has their cores for the NT and Super NT, and for the NT he sells that HDMI conversion kit through game-tech for the NES (which I have.) So a lot of the work has been figured out as it is, though a lot more would be needed still the groundwork is already partially done. He works with them, he does his own stuff, it would seem more logical to assume they'd go with what's working they already have some work into than starting from scratch. N64 tech went free range a few years back when the controllers started to pop up, so it's a fair possibility too. The library figuring in the US + unique Japanese and PAL games doesn't I believe top 400, but the base is there enough to justify it, and some games people love are just locked in IP/licensing rights hell (like Goldeneye and the other Rare titles too.)

Your point is valid from a marketing point of view, the only problem is that "affordable" FPGAs that can imitate a 64-bit system like the N64 don't exist yet. Heck, even the Game Boy Advance (32-bit) is problematic to do with today's available FPGAs.

 

Didn't Kevtris mention that the PlayStation (the very first one) could be done with today's FPGA tech? If Analogue is not looking to release a Genesis FPGA system, I'd say the PlayStation is far more likely to be Analogue's next "target" console.

[Tanooki]

Yes I was speaking from marketing on that post. I'm thinking of not a gamer nerd out frenzy of interest, fanboy droolings and all that, but what a company would find most financially responsible to do to get the most likely sales. Going by your argument, you're right, it's not possible now, but if we play the hypothetical and say it was figured out, the N64 would make the most sense for resurrecting an old RCA jack enabled console to the modern standard as it has no competition and a rabid fan base.

 

But if you're right about kevtris saying that about the PSX, then yes that would make even more sense than the N64 because financially it can be done now as the tech can do it while the N64 is more complex. Even if the N64 could be done, it still would be a fair toss up between the two as they both have a great pile of games to pull from, and in both cases they could perhaps even copy the SuperNT and stuff a game or two on there too as bait. I just can't see a smart interest in doing the Genesis despite how popular it was because there's already competition on the market with a well (enough) working HDMI option you can buy out of the box.

[cacophony]

The AtGames Genesis models all have terrible reviews, so I don't think there's any overlap between the people who impulse buy them at Walmart for $40 and the people who spend $230 on an Analogue's FPGA recreation. If anything I'd say the SNES Classic is much larger competition for the Super Nt than any of the AtGames offering would be for a well done FPGA Genesis.