JohnnyBlaze Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Here's a little tidbit that is not known: Remember the son-of-a-bitch or pain-in-the-ass that was called the Nintendo Entertainment System? Well,in 1983,Nintendo came up to Atari with the idea of Atari marketing their FAMICOM system in the U.S. since Nintendo thought that they couldn't compete with the Mighty Atari. But,having their own system in the works(7800) and HATING Nintendo's controllers(Nintendo's was a directional pad instead of a joystick) passed on the system in THE biggest mistake that Atari ever made. Nintendo remade the system in 1985 as the Nintendo Entertainment System and beat Atari's 7800. But one question is:WHY IS THERE NINTENDO GAMES ON THE 7800? Well,because Atari was locked in a fierce battle with Coleco over the rights to Nintendo's games.Atari outbid Coleco and started to make games for the 7800.But,Nintendo gave back the contract to Coleco and Atari had this stock that was suddenly unsellable.So, Nintendo gave Atari permission to reprogram the games for the 7800,much like some companies did for the Sega Master System of the late 1980's.That's why there are Nintendo games on the Atari 7800! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan49 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Here's a little tidbit that is not known: Remember the son-of-a-bitch or pain-in-the-ass that was called the Nintendo Entertainment System? Well,in 1983,Nintendo came up to Atari with the idea of Atari marketing their FAMICOM system in the U.S. since Nintendo thought that they couldn't compete with the Mighty Atari. But,having their own system in the works(7800) and HATING Nintendo's controllers(Nintendo's was a directional pad instead of a joystick) passed on the system in THE biggest mistake that Atari ever made. Nintendo remade the system in 1985 as the Nintendo Entertainment System and beat Atari's 7800. But one question is:WHY IS THERE NINTENDO GAMES ON THE 7800? Well,because Atari was locked in a fierce battle with Coleco over the rights to Nintendo's games.Atari outbid Coleco and started to make games for the 7800.But,Nintendo gave back the contract to Coleco and Atari had this stock that was suddenly unsellable.So, Nintendo gave Atari permission to reprogram the games for the 7800,much like some companies did for the Sega Master System of the late 1980's.That's why there are Nintendo games on the Atari 7800! Ok, what's your source for this? I think David Sheff in his book Game Over tells the story of this time pretty good about how Atari almost had worldwide distribution rights for the soon to be NES. It was killed when Coleco overstep the bounds and displayed Donkey Kong for the Colecovision/Adam at a CES show. Atari was under the impression they had exclusive rights to the game for home computers. It was because of this situation that the NES deal was called off. Coleco ended up shooting themselves in the foot with future deals with Nintendo over that situation. One thing that I have to say that Nintendo did well before they marketed the NES in the US was they studied everything that Atari did wrong. Smart move by them to bring back a market, that in 1983/1984 looked like would not be able to bounce back. I would think they had the rights to use Donkey Kong on the 7800 from the licensing deal they had for the computer. Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 I got my source from The Ultimate History of Video Games by Steven Kent What other sources do you know of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian R. Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Actually, the 7800 was shelved because the Tramiels had no interest in video games at first and wanted to focus on computers. Nintendo did approach Atari about selling their Famicom (the NES) system in the US, but Atari said no. After the NES was released, Atari took note of their success and released the 7800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 Wow mr. Brian! Pardon my language but that's a lot of shit! Tell me,are you proud to own all of that shit?You sound like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 Do you happen to have any spare systems? My dad always hogs up my atari! I have almost every system on an emulator.Just ask me and i'll tell you if i have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Actually, the 7800 was shelved because the Tramiels had no interest in video games at first and wanted to focus on computers. Nintendo did approach Atari about selling their Famicom (the NES) system in the US, but Atari said no. After the NES was released, Atari took note of their success and released the 7800. Yep that's how I've always heard it. Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian R. Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Aeroforce, I hope you're not saying my post is a lot of shit. Or are you talking about my collection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyranthraxus Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Wow mr. Brian! Pardon my language but that's a lot of shit! Tell me,are you proud to own all of that shit?You sound like it! For some reason to me hat is one of the most hilarious posts I've read in a while for its dual meaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Wow mr. Brian! Pardon my language but that's a lot of shit! Tell me,are you proud to own all of that shit?You sound like it! Speaking as one who has a collection like his but larger, hell yes I'm proud of my shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ussexplorer Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 I just put Atari choice up with all the other bad deals. IBM uses Microsoft and open shelf parts for the P.C. The wife tells IBM to take a hike when IBM aproches Digital Research to use CPM. Sega kills Genesis and releases Saturn. I could go on with this for a while. Laters, Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan49 Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 I got my source from The Ultimate History of Video Games by Steven Kent What other sources do you know of? David Sheff - Game Over: How Nintendo Conquered the World. ISBN # 0-679-73622-0 David Sheff - Game Over:Press Start to Continue. ISBN # 0-9669617-0-6 Other Readings: Zap! The Rise and Fall of Atari. By Scott Cohen - Covers the Bushnell and Warner days of Atari. The Home Computer Wars by Michael S. Tomczyk. ISBN # 0-942386-78-7. Mainly about Jack Tramiel and his days at Commodore. Has brief insight to the acquiring on Atari by Jack Tramiel. Plus this guy had worked for Jack and shows some of his loyality to him in the book. Still not a bad book to read to understand Jack's business philosophy that he always stuck to. Phoenix: The Fall and Rise of Video Games by Leonard Herman. http://www.rolentapress.com/. It's now in its 3rd Edition. Hackers by Steven Levy. Written about the true hackers. Not the types you hear about on the 10 o'clock news trying to break into computer systems. The ones who figured out how to turn a multi-million dollar mainframe computer into a spacewar game machine at MIT. The days of the Homebrew Computer Club in the '70s and Steve Wozinak. The '80s with Sierra On-line Systems and great game programmers like John Harris. Atari, Inc. The Early Years by Colin Covert. Visits Atarimagazines.com. http://www.atarimagazines.com/hi-res/v1n1/...tarihistory.php And don't ever read J.C. Hertz and her Joystick Nation. She's a complete idiot and doesn't deserve any respect!!! Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyBlaze Posted April 24, 2003 Author Share Posted April 24, 2003 First off to Mr. Brian,I was using that word as a slang word for "items".For example: I have a lot of shit at home. And thanks to the member that put up those books.I never read Joystick Nation as it really Sucks ass! I also read High Score and Supercade,both of which are very good books! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan49 Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 ... thanks to the member that put up those books.I never read Joystick Nation as it really Sucks ass! I also read High Score and Supercade,both of which are very good books! Have to check those other ones out. Glad to share the knowledge of the other books. Enjoyed everyone of them. But I'm also the type that will read anything that mentions something of Atari's past (except Joystick Nation - hate that b#$%@!). Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 There are rumblings from Nintendo and Atari that the whole "Atari was offered the opportunity to market the NES" bit was nothing more than an urban legend. I would still have to question the success that the NES would have had with Atari at the helm. On one hand, they would have had better games, courtesy of Nintendo. On the other hand, they would still be the same old cheap, "marketing is not important" Atari. It probably would have held on longer than the 7800 but I doubt it would have been the smash that it was. Atari would have been "in the way". :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariDude Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 It is not an urban legend. It really happened. If you ever read Steven Kent's excellent book "The Ultimate History of Video Games", you would see quotes from Howard Lincoln, who was the chairman of Nintendo of America. Howard Lincoln is also mentioned as being a Seattle based Attorney. You don't think that he would have sued if anything listed in the book was not his own words? He mentions what happened at the meeting, about meeting some of the corporate executives at Atari and being pelted with questions, and how the fiasco with Donkey Kong and Coleco at CES basically killed the deal. I think that should lay to rest this idea of it being an urban legend once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 It is not an urban legend. It really happened. If you ever read Steven Kent's excellent book "The Ultimate History of Video Games", you would see quotes from Howard Lincoln, who was the chairman of Nintendo of America. Howard Lincoln is also mentioned as being a Seattle based Attorney. You don't think that he would have sued if anything listed in the book was not his own words? He mentions what happened at the meeting, about meeting some of the corporate executives at Atari and being pelted with questions, and how the fiasco with Donkey Kong and Coleco at CES basically killed the deal. I think that should lay to rest this idea of it being an urban legend once and for all. Except that David Scheff's book about Nintendo gives conflicting quotes that suggests the negotiations were never series on either side - from the same sources. Also, I've seen interviews with Atari personel that suggest the same thing - if it was discussed, it wasn't a serious push either way to "make it happen". I do own the Kent book and while it is a good read, I wouldn't go too highly on the historical accuracy - it's loaded with mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariDude Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Howard Lincoln is a lawyer. We all know how lawyers love to sue. Do you think for a moment he would hesitate if anything that is quoted as his words were not placed in the book accurately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I hear what you're saying, but I still don't think this was as serious negotiation for either side. I don't know if you work in the tech industry or not, but negotiations between companies are often long, drawn out and may not go anywhere. Lots of people have ideas - many never come to fruition once the lawyers get involved, company business practices change, personel leave, royalties can't be agreed upon, there are fights over territory rights, expiry dates etc. It's a mess, especially if you want to try and get something quickly. As you noted, lawyers are a pushy bunch and when you have lawyers on two sides arguing, sometimes it isn't worth the effort if you don't feel strongly enough about it. The way I look at it was like this: Nintendo may very well have casually approached Atari about distributing the NES in North America as one possible business option. It's common practice: Sega also approached Atari about distributing the Genesis. The point is that a lot of people say, "Atari made the biggest mistake of their lives." I'm skeptical it ever would have happened because it didn't sound like Nintendo was all that serious/well-bent on Atari distributing the NES either. The indications are that it might have a couple of discussions, but Atari wasn't particularly interested and Nintendo didn't feel like they particularly needed Atari. but I don't think it was a case of Nintendo being willing to hand over "the pot of gold" and Atari turned them down flat. I think it was a case of Nintendo casually exploring their business options. Remember - the NES wasn't really secret - it was commercially available in Japan at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 In all fairness as an admitted NES fanboy, I will say this: It probably looks better historically for Nintendo to cover up the fact they went to Atari for help, or significantly downplay it's importance. It causes them to "lose face" by showing they were once so weak they had to beg an American company to distribute their products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie3 Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Or maybe, MMF, it was all part of Nintendo's plan to destroy Atari altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Or maybe, MMF, it was all part of Nintendo's plan to destroy Atari altogether. As I've said all along, Atari did it to themselves. They didn't need Nintendo's help, or anybody else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariDude Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 We talked about this in one of my business classees. The topic is called barrier to entry. Esentially you have one company who is the market leader and anyone wishing to enter the market is going to be at a disadvantage because the market leader has probably established economies of scale, have a price advantage with their suppliers and distributors and have established brand loyalty. Given the fact that at the time, no one in the US really knew Nintendo well (their only success in the US had been Donkey Kong), it makes more sense to have a strong partner like Atari seemed to be at the time rather than try to compete with them directly. Had the deal been worked out in 1981 or 1982 as opposed to 1983 which was the year of the crash, the NES might have been distributed / manufactured by Atari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan49 Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 Given the fact that at the time, no one in the US really knew Nintendo well (their only success in the US had been Donkey Kong), it makes more sense to have a strong partner like Atari seemed to be at the time rather than try to compete with them directly. That's the exact reason why Nintendo was interested in Atari. Atari had the brand name and distribution connections. Nintendo may have aggressively ruled the Japanese market (and I mean ruled with an iron fist), but their President realized the importance of having a name like Atari (at that time) distributing their product. Plus he was impressed by the name since he is a very big Go player. Just too bad pride and licensings had to cloud the discussions and ruin the talks. Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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