Nintendo's relationships with Atari

[Agent X]

The point is that a lot of people say, "Atari made the biggest mistake of their lives." I'm skeptical it ever would have happened because it didn't sound like Nintendo was all that serious/well-bent on Atari distributing the NES either.  The indications are that it might have a couple of discussions, but Atari wasn't particularly interested and Nintendo didn't feel like they particularly needed Atari.  

 

but I don't think it was a case of Nintendo being willing to hand over "the pot of gold" and Atari turned them down flat. I think it was a case of Nintendo casually exploring their business options. Remember - the NES wasn't really secret - it was commercially available in Japan at that time.

 

I've also heard that both Atari and Nintendo had ulterior motives in mind.

 

I also disagree with the notion that Atari's rejection to distribute the NES was "the biggest mistake of their lives." Nintendo hornblowers and Atari detractors (or, more often, people who happen to be both) like to toss that comment around, and portray this image of Atari as a pack of bumbling fools that rejected the goose that laid golden eggs. The dealbreaker occurred when Atari saw Coleco showcasing Donkey Kong for the Adam computer, after Atari had already paid for "exclusive" computer rights.

 

I've also heard that Atari's intention for licensing the NES would have been to lock up the rights to it, but never release it, and just produce the technically superior 7800 instead. That way, Nintendo couldn't release the system outside of Japan (because Atari would own the rights to it), and Atari wouldn't have to pay royalties to Nintendo on the 7800. It's a shady practice that lots of companies in the video game and computer industries have done.

 

As I said, it's all about ulterior motives. Nintendo wanted to play both sides of the coin on licensing deals, and Atari saw this as a way of getting a potential console competitor out of the way.

 

There were lots of problems that led to Atari's downfall in the video game industry. I don't think this was their "big mistake." In retrospect (hindsight is 20/20), it might be viewed as a mistake, but I don't think that the sole hypothetical event of Atari obtaining the rights to the NES would have necessarily saved them if other historical events (Warner selling Atari to the Tramiels, the Tramiels canceling video game projects, etc.) had worked out the way they did. If anything, it probably would've harmed Nintendo (by typing their hands) more than it would've helped Atari, and would've just paved the way for someone else (such as Sega) to take on Nintendo's role.

[MegaManFan]

There were lots of problems that led to Atari's downfall in the video game industry. I don't think this was their "big mistake." In retrospect (hindsight is 20/20), it might be viewed as a mistake, but I don't think that the sole hypothetical event of Atari obtaining the rights to the NES would have necessarily saved them if other historical events (Warner selling Atari to the Tramiels, the Tramiels canceling video game projects, etc.) had worked out the way they did. If anything, it probably would've harmed Nintendo (by typing their hands) more than it would've helped Atari, and would've just paved the way for someone else (such as Sega) to take on Nintendo's role.

 

I totally agree. Whether Atari would have just sat on the Nintendo and never sold it because they could, or would have bungled it if they did because they WOULD, it probably would never have become the huge phenomenon it is today either way in their hands. The ripple effect could be even larger than we imagine. After all, Sega created the Genesis because the NES was so large in the U.S. that their SMS couldn't compete; and Nintendo creates the SNES because they were being killed by the superior Genesis, et cetera. Now imagine a market where Sega had been the sole major player. The SMS releases would have been the same to start with, but they would have gone on milking the system far into the early 90's like Nintendo did the NES, and we might never have seen the Genesis or Sonic the Hedgehog at all. And since the PSX was originally a joint venture between Nintendo and Sony to make a disc based system for the SNES, the PlayStation would never have happened either. It's really funny when you consider how big a difference such little things could make.

[Joey Kay]

I must admit I love these hypothetical conversations... so many possibilities!

 

How about this... Nolan Bushnell's folks decided to emmigrate to Brazil when he was a child... instead of founding Atari he became a world-wide soccer phenomenon, and by 1980 we were all playing "Nolan's Soccer" on the Odyssey II.

 

Point is... so many possibilities... it's fun to speculate, but none of us can be certain.

 

Cheers!

 

Joey

[AtariDude]

Unless you have a Tardis or a sliding device. Luckily I have both.

[MegaManFan]

Unless you have a Tardis or a sliding device. Luckily I have both.  

 

Now why would you ever bother with a slider? We already know the TARDIS can slip dimensions. Hell, it's even been to e-Space and back, and I'm not talking about internet commerce!

[AtariDude]

Because my Tardis is sometimes tempormental and I use the sliding device as a backup.

[MegaManFan]

Because my Tardis is sometimes tempormental and I use the sliding device as a backup.

 

Dude, that's what you get for using a type 40. Don't you know they're unreliable? Why my chameleon circuit wass always breaking down, and I could never get the temporal locator to plot my destination accurately - I always ended up halfway across the galaxy from where I wanted to be! That's why I stole the Master's TARDIS when he wasn't looking. He's trapped on the planet of the Cheetah People, so he's not gonna need it anyway.

[Video]

That's the only way I've evern heard it, the Tramiles bought Atari, and flushed the company. Didn't want anything to do with game systems, even though for the fact of the matter, the primary thing atari computers were used for was to play games. And the NES was a game system at the time Atari turned away from home consoles.

 

There are rumblings from Nintendo and Atari that the whole "Atari was offered the opportunity to market the NES" bit was nothing more than an urban legend.

 

Of course there's going to be talks from both Nintendo and Atari that Atari's opportunity to market the NES was just an urban legend.

 

1. Atari would not admit to doing something wrong. It's simply company policy to sweep failures under the mat, it always has been. And besides, no business is going to admit to a blunder that big.

 

2. Nintendo is a huge player in the world today. They wouldn't want to be known to be pedeling their systems to some (nowdays) nobody company.

[atarifan49]

That's the only way I've evern heard it, the Tramiles bought Atari, and flushed the company.  Didn't want anything to do with game systems, even though for the fact of the matter, the primary thing atari computers were used for was to play games.  And the NES was a game system at the time Atari turned away from home consoles.

 

That was so true. Jack Tramiel didn't want anything to do with video games. Not sure why he bought that part of the company unless he just wanted the rights to the game titles or something.

 

A story that I heard was about a tour Jack was taking of the company and an employee was showing him the 7800. Jack basicly be-littled this guy because he didn't want anything to do with video games. I heard this guy got his revenge later when they needed his help to resurrect the 7800 project. I wish I could remember it more, its a pretty good story and I'm not giving it much justice here.

 

 

1.  Atari would not admit to doing something wrong.  It's simply company policy to sweep failures under the mat, it always has been.  And besides, no business is going to admit to a blunder that big.

 

They did admit about the mistake they made in passing up the Apple II. But in a sense I'm glad they did, I prefer my 8bit Atari computer design than the under powered Apple II. You don't see people coming up with new and interesting graphic demos for the Apple II.

 

 

2.  Nintendo is a huge player in the world today.  They wouldn't want to be known to be pedeling their systems to some (nowdays) nobody company.

 

They're just now getting a taste of their own medicine. I'm happy to see them eat third place. If I have to see another stinking Mario game....

 

 

Glenn

[Video]

I don't mind Mario, except the last few sucked. Well, Luigi sucked, and Mario blows. LOL

 

I remember that story, don't remember the names, but the guy that built the 7800 quit, or got fired (don't remember which) and the 7800 dissappeared. When Atari was going to release it, he wanted buttloads of money (well, for what Atari would pay) I think like $200,000 wasn't it? Atari turned him down. I guess they found the systems though, since we got them now.

[Shannon]

I don't mind Mario, except the last few sucked.  Well, Luigi sucked, and Mario blows.  LOL

 

Sounds like a porn game...

[Jasoco]

Contrary to popular belief, I do NOT think the NES is a "son-of-a-bitch" or a "pain-in-the-ass".

 

Except for the damn spring loading system. But not the system itself.

[Video]

I was lucky enough to never want an NES till the mid Nineties when I bought the top loader "New NES" I never had to deal with the stupid blinking crappy springloading thingy like my friends.

[ElectricTroy]

Two mistakes combine into One Giant Mistake that killed Atari:

- Warner Communications sold Atari (like shooting yourself in the foot)

- The new Atari under Tramiel did not release the 7800 for Christmas 84.

 

If Atari had released the 7800, the industry would have revived in 1985 and the 7800 would be dominant (plus with all the 1000-game library of 2600 already on the market). After all, we videogamers did not disappear. We were still out there and looking for new stuff to play..... we just needed a more advanced console.

 

So since Atari committed that Giant Mistake of not releasing 7800, we videogamers were left empty-handed..... and then along comes Nintendo. Stupid Atari had the opportunity to fill our hands with a brand-new console and awesome new games, plus pad their pockets with tons of money, and they passed on it.

 

Canceling 7800 in 84 = One Giant Mistake.

[ElectricTroy]

But one question is:WHY IS THERE NINTENDO GAMES ON THE 7800?

 

Because when the 2600 was popular (80-84), Atari negotiated with Nintendo for rights to the arcade games. Those arcade game rights for games like Mario Brothers carried over to the 7800.

 

See? Simple. No conspiracy theory required.

[DracIsBack]

I'm not really sure the 7800 would be dominant.

 

I don't buy the argument that some Nintendo owners give of the NES being a technically superior system in any meaningful way over the 7800. What I do buy, however, was the superiority of Nintendo's lineup.

 

The 7800 had some strikes against it which even changing the release date wouldn't have helped:

 

1. The initial library was designed to combat the library of machines like the Colecovision and Commodore 64. Atari would have been completely unprepared for the likes of SUPER MARIO BROTHERS and ZELDA. Now there is no technical reason you couldn't have seen 7800 equivilants eventually, but ...

 

2. The Tramiels had bought Atari when the 7800 was ready to go. The Tramiels, whether releasing the 7800 in 1984, 1985 or 1985, were still cheap and still not interested in video games. They certainly wouldn't have spent any real money on game development, peripheral development or advertising when it came to a video game console. Nintendo, with their $30 million/year marketing budget would have eaten them for lunch.

 

I do agree that maybe releasing the 7800 earlier might have given it larger install base, more games and possibly NES-style games sooner - but I don't think it would have dominated.

 

Nintendo came out with the best weapon a console company could have - really, really good games.

[tyranthraxus]

Two mistakes combine into One Giant Mistake that killed Atari:

- Warner Communications sold Atari (like shooting yourself in the foot)

- The new Atari under Tramiel did not release the 7800 for Christmas 84.

 

If Atari had released the 7800, the industry would have revived in 1985 and the 7800 would be dominant (plus with all the 1000-game library of 2600 already on the market).  After all, we videogamers did not disappear.  We were still out there and looking for new stuff to play..... we just needed a more advanced console

 

Yes as mentioned Tramiel did not have deep enough pockets to risk

a video game adventure. At the time going into computers was a

sound decision.

 

However, Warner Atari could have weathered the storm in 1984. They

were strong enough to outlast Coleco and Mattel. People didn't stop

wanting video games in 1984 they just lost faith with the current

systems. Whether Atari could have held against the NES with an early

7800 release is unlikly given the craze SMB was but it would have likely

been more successful.

 

Another question is whether Coleco's unreleased Super Game Module

could have kept them afloat if they released that instead of the Adam.

 

The most interesting thing with the hole video game crash is how the

industry shifted from American companies to Japanese ones controlling

it in one year.

 

John

[ElectricTroy]

The 7800 had some strikes against it which even changing the release date wouldn't have helped: (snip)

You know how PS2 released a year early and squeezed out the Nintendo Gamecube? Exactly the same thing would have happened with Atari 7800. If it was released in 1984 with a two-year headstart on NES, the 7800 would be in the same position as PS2 is now: Dominant.

.

.

.

And no, I don't buy the NES is superior argument either. It's obvious to anyone with eyes and ears that the superior console was the newly-designed Sega Master System. The SMS has near 16-bit graphics. When I first saw it, I didn't believe it was only an 8-bit console.

 

NES became dominant because it was first on the market. The console that is first always has an advantage.

[Jasoco]

The world would be a lot different if a lot of things had happened uh.. differently.

 

If Atari released the 7800 first, maybe we'd be playing 128 bit Atari's now. If Apple hadn't wanted Office so bad, we'd all be using Macintoshes. If John DeLorean hadn't bought drugs, Back to the Future may not have used it in the movie, since they wouldn't have gotten as much popularity as they did, and not become the trilogy it was. If Sony licenced the BetaMax technology to other companies, someone wouldn't have come up with VHS.

 

Lots of things would be different now had they happened differently. But this is the way things are and that's how they'll be for a while.

[DracIsBack]

There's a difference between the PS2 and the 7800 ... well, a couple.

 

1) The PS1 was a number one system. There wasn't an PS 5200 between the PS1 and PS2

 

2) The PS2 had a large library of games and many of them were decent at launch.

 

3) The PS1 had a larger, installed base - even than the 2600.

 

It's a little more complicated and a different market then vs. now.

[Jasoco]

If Atari had released the 7800 first, maybe Nintendo wouldn't have seen a market and not come out with a system. Sony wouldn't have made the CD addon for the SuperNES (Being non-existant) which would have meant no PS2.

 

Either way, things would be a lot different.

 

Maybe Nintendo would have come out but not been as big. Even if it was better, doesn't make it more popular. So maybe Atari would have continued down the road with more systems, kept themselves in first place with Nintendo in second from the start. Sega may have never even entered the market as well. Things would be realy different. No one knows who would have done what had one thing happened rather another. No denying that.

 

What if Columbus desiced "Oh, I think I'll stay home today... There's probably nothing out there anyway."?

[angusjake]

The most interesting thing with the hole video game crash is how the  

industry shifted from American companies to Japanese ones controlling  

it in one year.

Hmm... sort of like how everyone is buying Hondas and Toyotas now?

 

One thing is certain: as much as I like (love?) my Ataris, Atari had everything going for them in 1981 and they BLEW IT BIG TIME.

[MegaManFan]

Actually, the salesman at the Honda dealership I went to was so smarmy, arrogant, and weasel-ly that he ended up pushing me into a no haggle, no pressure, fixed price Saturn four-door, and I've stuck with them ever since. The sad part is I was all set to go on a Honda when I walked in the door because I had driven my sister's for a few weeks and loved it, but of all the car dealership pricks I've ever met, he was the biggest. I even went out of my way to warn people not to go there if they wanted a car.

[AtariDude]

In some alternate universes, Atari is the only game in town since the 7800 was released at the right time and resulted in success. Eventually a system called the Atari Advantage System was released that had the Falcon computer graphics in a one piece console.

 

That is the advantage to having a Tardis. I can visit other universes and check how history was changed in some other worlds.

[MegaManFan]

That universe sounds interesting, but since I don't want to live in one that doesn't have Wonder Boy III, Mega Man 3 and Super Mario Bros. 3, I'll take a pass on it. 3, that's the magic number..