Nintendo's relationships with Atari

[DracIsBack]

1. Super Mario Bros. didn't exist until 1985. If the 7800 were released in 1984, then it would have been out for a year before SMB was available. I don't know what the hypothetical Famicom pack-in would have been if it came out in the US in 1984, but it wouldn't have been SMB!  

 

Good point. Of course, if the 7800 did hit the shelves in 1984, it still would have had to face an angry channel, a company being dismantled, a limited game library and a library that wasn't sufficiently different than what was on previous systems.

 

2. The actual original pack-in games for the NES were Gyromite and Duck Hunt. Super Mario Bros. wasn't offered as a pack-in until the Action Set came out in late 1986 or early 1987.  

 

Hmm ... I remember this differently than you. Not to say that I'm right and you're wrong - just that I remember seeing the NES and SUPER MARIO in 1986 and going, "WOW!" when I saw Super Mario. And I remember it being a packin.

 

I'd rather have Pole Position II than both Gyromite and Duck Hunt. SMB was a more desirable pack-in than PP2, but when I chose to get the 7800 over the NES in 1987, I was looking ahead at other games that were available, not merely the pack-in games.

 

I got my 7800 in 1987, largely because the NES was sold out everywhere. But there definitely was a difference in the games ... I remember seeing stuff like LIFEFORCE, METROID, LEGEND OF ZELDA, SUPER MARIO BROTHERS and CASTLEVANIA. Those games literally changed the way I thought of video games. I got a 7800 out of loyalty to Atari, because the graphics looked good and because it could play 2600 titles. THat being said, there was nothing remotely like the afformentioned games on the 7800.

 

Out of curiosity, does anyone know, offhand, the initial NES launch titles?

[MegaManFan]

Here's the response Mark/Android gave me on RGVC in July 2002:

 

I don't know of any particular Web site with this info, but I do have a 1985

sales sheet for Nintendo that lists 26 games: Gyromite, Stack-up, Duck Hunt,

Hogan's Alley, Wild Gunman, Excitebike, Wrecking Crew, Mach Rider, Golf,

Baseball, Tennis, Soccer, 10-Yard Fight, Kung Fu, Ice Climber, Pinball, Clu

Clu Land, Super Mario Bros., Balloon Fight, Urban Champion, Donkey Kong,

Donkey Kong Jr., Donkey Kong 3, Mario Bros., Popeye, and Donkey Kong Jr.

Math.

 

The sheet says "Not all games will be available for immediate release. Watch

for them at your local dealer." I can't confirm that these were the very

first NES games released in the U.S., but I suspect they were.

 

Mark

[DracIsBack]

Thanks for the list. Meanwhile, the 7800 initially shipped with JOUST, MS. PAC-MAN and DELUXE ASTEROIDS. XEVIOUS and GALAGA followed before the end of 1986.

[ElectricTroy]

Anyway, you have failed to convince me.

 

Well, Troy - there's obviously no convincing you of anything, once you've made up your mind. .

 

 

Turn that finger around and point it at yourself Drac. I haven't seen you alter your opinion either. You're just as stubborn as I am. Isn't that true?

 

Troy

[DracIsBack]

That's the best you can come up with in your debate? The equivilant of "I know you are, but what am I?"

 

Oi ...

[ElectricTroy]

.

 

I was pointing out that YOU are just as unwilling to change your opinion as me. We are two like individuals.

[MegaManFan]

This needs to be settled with a duel.. a duel of JOUST!

Okay, pick up your controllers, when I hit reset it's on like gangbusters.

Ready..

Set..

 

 

 

 

GO!!!!!

[Happy_Dude]

gangbusters has been mentioned quite offten in this thread.

When was this game released and for what system.

if the 7800 was released in 1984 it would have sold like gangbusters

And why have I never heard of it before if it sold sooooo well

 

 

 

[Agent X]

I got my 7800 in 1987, largely because the NES was sold out everywhere. But there definitely was a difference in the games ... I remember seeing stuff like LIFEFORCE, METROID, LEGEND OF ZELDA, SUPER MARIO BROTHERS and CASTLEVANIA. Those games literally changed the way I thought of video games. I got a 7800 out of loyalty to Atari, because the graphics looked good and because it could play 2600 titles. THat being said, there was nothing remotely like the afformentioned games on the 7800.

 

Yes, I'll agree, there weren't many games like those on the 7800. Most games of that style didn't come out on the 7800 until 1989-1990.

 

I generally got the 7800 for most of the same reasons you did, although I also wanted to play some of the other games like Xevious and Food Fight, which you couldn't get anywhere else. Also, the games on the 7800 were a lot cheaper than NES or SMS games, which was a big deal to me, since I was now at the age where I was responsible for earning money and buying my own games, rather than begging my mother to buy me a new game. Since I also had a Commodore 64 (which had many of the same games as the NES, usually in superior form), it didn't bother me so much that a lot of the big games didn't hit the 7800.

[DracIsBack]

The money thing was a biggie for me too. One of the things that actually sold me was that they had a 7800 and an NES side by side, both playing Xevious. The 7800 version, IMHO, looked better ... with brighter colours and a nicer title screen. In Canada, the 7800 version of $19.95, the NES was $54.95 at the time. No contest - 7800 wins. Xevious was my first game other than Pole Position 2.

 

If you can believe this, I actually bought the 7800 because I wanted to play Karateka. Man - I was disappointed when I got it!

[King Atari]

Okay, here's my take on it, and my apologies if I repeat something that has been said numerous times before, this is how I see it:

 

If the 7800 was released in 1984 like it should have been, it would've been good. Really really good. This would've allowed it to get a hold on the industry, and establish itself as a new leader.

 

If, that is, they could overcome the consumers and retailers that were no doubt skeptical over the less than wonderful run of the 5200. I'm sure consumers didn't want to run out and buy a new Atari system since they had the 5200 for a pretty short period of time. The retailers didn't want to be putting out a new system that wouldn't sell.

 

If the 7800 overcame that little roadblock, I think it would've sold fairly well, but ONLY if it had the games. I like Pole Position II, but I'd much rather play some new and different, that was appearing on a console for the first time, ever. A large starting line-up for the 7800 also would've been good, though if they were all ports of old arcade games, I'm sure skeptism would return to the consumers. Why buy another system if you're just going to play the same things?

 

Another problem was that the 7800 was never used to it's full potential. Apparently the 7800 is more powerful than the NES, but the majority of games manage to look only as good or worse than NES titles. Of course, if graphics really mattered, the Sega Master System would've killed both systems easily. Some SMS games could actually pass on an SNES, I think.

 

And let's not even talk about the 7800's sound chip, which is just a joke. Both the NES and SMS sound better, with the NES being the better of the two.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love me 7800, but it saddens me that it's history turned out so bad. When it comes right down to it, the games are what really mattered. When Contra came out on the NES in 1988, Atari should've made their own similar shooter, make it bigger and better (though making a game better than Contra is a tough feat). Even popular games of the time that were ported to the 7800 came out less than perfect. Compare Double Dragon across all three systems. While the 7800's may be more faithful level-wise, the graphics are simply unacceptable. The sprites are way to blocky, with no deatil at all, and control with the pro-line isn't as smooth as you'd like. The NES version plays much better, looks better, and sounds better, the fact that it's so unfaithful to the coin-op can almost be forgiven. It goes without saying that the SMS version is best.

 

Atari could've made the 7800 a success, but botched it so much that it could've never recovered. It finally did some really good games towards the end, but too late.

 

That's how I see it at least.

[MegaManFan]

I still find it hugely ironic to this day that Atari was making some of their very best games during the dying days of 2600 and 7800 sales. Road Runner. Secret Quest. Alien Brigade. Ikari Warriors. I'm not saying these titles would have won the console wars if released in the mid-80's, but they definitely would have levelled the playing field somewhat.

[King Atari]

I still find it hugely ironic to this day that Atari was making some of their very best games during the dying days of 2600 and 7800 sales.  Road Runner.  Secret Quest.  Alien Brigade.  Ikari Warriors.  I'm not saying these titles would have won the console wars if released in the mid-80's, but they definitely would have levelled the playing field somewhat.

 

That's why I love the late-80's games so much. When I first found out about them, they were somewhat of a novelty. I couldn't believe Atari was still making 2600 games in 1989! Not so much the 7800, they should've been making those games like that along, but the 2600, those were impressive. I'm sure I don't need to explain which one is my favorite .

 

Same with Intellivision. I had no idea they even produced in the late-80's (and this was when I was well into classic video games, but more Atari-wise). I only found out when I saw a screenshot for the title screen of Commando. 1987! Wow!

 

I'm getting off topic here, sorry, MMF just sparked something.