+mytek Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Sure, I can understand that, but OTOH, if it were a piece of hardware (maybe a 1450 or such), then pretty much no one would object to trying to sell it. It just happens to be intellectual property instead of tangible property. My take, at least. We'll see what he says. He may have no interest. -Larry Yes you are right, and I won't dispute this. But from my own personal way of being, I wouldn't ask for any money, especially if I could just dump it all into someone else's lap and let them do the work of disseminating it and providing any support where necessary. Obviously if Bob were to have to do a lot of work as part of getting it into the PD, then yes he certainly should get some cash to offset this. But I'm sure there are lots of volunteers that would eagerly put in their time for free to have a chance at going through all of Bob's CSS product designs (I know I would if I had the spare time). - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Hello guys There's only one way to find out if Bob wants to share his stuff with us or have us clean out his piles of 8 bit hardware, docs, software, etc. It would be an international call for me and since there's no way I can reach Rochester, New York with my car, one of you guys will have to do it. Sincerely Mathy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 It's already been done this AM. Email -- Bob's been good about answering emails the past few times, but if he doesn't reply, I'll call. Larry 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Didn't he give permission to clone his products when he was asked? The problem is that, as some people reported here, he lost all his original material, sources and schematics. Dropcheck tried to get permission to replicate the Dual drive XF551 upgrade, but failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelmischief Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Hello guys There's only one way to find out if Bob wants to share his stuff with us or have us clean out his piles of 8 bit hardware, docs, software, etc. It would be an international call for me and since there's no way I can reach Rochester, New York with my car, one of you guys will have to do it. Sincerely Mathy I live fairly close to Rochester. I can do any legwork required. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndusGT Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I have spoken with Bob and his BBS program is gone forever, his drive died, he failed to back it up. Wish someone had a copy, shame that was lost. Would be nice also if the Black Box could be cloned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Dropcheck tried to get permission to replicate the Dual drive XF551 upgrade, but failed. Just curious as to why? Did he no longer have the information on how to do it, or didn't want to give it away? Out of all of his cool upgrades, this to me was so friggin nice and useful. I had bought one when he first released it, and installed it in one of two XF551 drive cases I had, bolted the cases together and then added the 3.5 mechanism. It was my favorite peripheral for several years thereafter until I gave it away to Curt. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 The hardware is not that hard to replicate. It's the PALs, GALs and eproms he used in much of his products that is the hard part. He was very paranoid about pirates stealing that info and went to great lengths to protect against that. I understand the reasons behind it, but for pete's sake make sure you have hard copies/backups. Hard drives crash...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 The hardware is not that hard to replicate. It's the PALs, GALs and eproms he used in much of his products that is the hard part. He was very paranoid about pirates stealing that info and went to great lengths to protect against that. I understand the reasons behind it, but for pete's sake make sure you have hard copies/backups. Hard drives crash...... So I take it that means that this information is lost forever as well - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) The eprom code should be easy to pull from originals. PALs and GALs are another matter. It maybe possible to infer their contents with a lot of trial and error. In some cases you might be able to read them, if you can get to them. On the black modules he used in the XF551 mods, all the circuitry is encased in some kind of epoxy. I have one of the OS Speed mods and spent days carefully drilling away the expoxy with a dremel. until I started to see the tops of parts. At that point one of my other projects interfered and so far I haven't returned to it. I hated to destroy the mod just to see what it was. Not at all the kind of reimaging I want to do. But sometimes that's all that left to do. At one point in my conversation with him on getting permission to redo the dual XF551 mods he indicated that he might still have some info in his basement on his drives, but I never could get him to do more than talk about checking. He stopped responding to my emails at that point. Perhaps someone else who has a better relationship with him can gain access to that computer and drive to see what can be salvaged. Edited July 13, 2016 by Dropcheck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricortes Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 The hardware is not that hard to replicate. It's the PALs, GALs and eproms he used in much of his products that is the hard part. He was very paranoid about pirates stealing that info and went to great lengths to protect against that. I understand the reasons behind it, but for pete's sake make sure you have hard copies/backups. Hard drives crash...... hehe, I know everyone wants to pucker up because of his talent/skills, but I've always found him to be a bit eccentric. A guy whose claim to fame is about stealing everyone's intellectual property that goes to extreme measures to make it so no one can take his. My interactions with him were mostly on a somewhat tense level where a couple of times he trashed me in public. When proven wrong, he never apologized or issued a correction of his statements. Always felt like he was in a pissing contest with the community to prove he was smarter then everyone else. Not that he isn't/wasn't a much more valuable member of the Atari community then myself, just that he was a bit weird at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 The eprom code should be easy to pull from originals. PALs and GALs are another matter. It maybe possible to infer their contents with a lot of trial and error. In some cases you might be able to read them, if you can get to them. On the black modules he used in the XF551 mods, all the circuitry is encased in some kind of epoxy. I have one of the OS Speed mods and spent days carefully drilling away the expoxy with a dremel. until I started to see the tops of parts. At that point one of my other projects interfered and so far I haven't returned to it. I hated to destroy the mod just to see what it was. Not at all the kind of reimaging I want to do. But sometimes that's all that left to do. At one point in my conversation with him on getting permission to redo the dual XF551 mods he indicated that he might still have some info in his basement on his drives, but I never could get him to do more than talk about checking. He stopped responding to my emails at that point. Perhaps someone else who has a better relationship with him can gain access to that computer and drive to see what can be salvaged. I tried to do the reverse engineering you described on an extra XF551 epoxy module I had back in the 90's and not only failed, but utterly destroyed it in the process. I guess I'll never make it as an Archaeologist . Hey how about putting it into a replicator like on Star Trek? hehe, I know everyone wants to pucker up because of his talent/skills, but I've always found him to be a bit eccentric. A guy whose claim to fame is about stealing everyone's intellectual property that goes to extreme measures to make it so no one can take his. My interactions with him were mostly on a somewhat tense level where a couple of times he trashed me in public. When proven wrong, he never apologized or issued a correction of his statements. Always felt like he was in a pissing contest with the community to prove he was smarter then everyone else. Not that he isn't/wasn't a much more valuable member of the Atari community then myself, just that he was a bit weird at times. I had some dealings with Bob back in the day. Never had any issues with him, but then again I wasn't in his same league back then, so no reason to get into a battle of the egos. However he did seem to fit the nerd profile much better than I, and was still living with his Mom at the time which seemed a bit odd to me considering his age. - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 ...and was still living with his Mom at the time which seemed a bit odd to me considering his age. Maybe she couldn't live in the house without assistance, and it worked out well for him to stay there with her. Now, if it turns out he lived in the basement... then that could be a whole 'nother thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Maybe she couldn't live in the house without assistance, and it worked out well for him to stay there with her. Now, if it turns out he lived in the basement... then that could be a whole 'nother thing. Yeah I really shouldn't make any judgments based on that (me bad). Who really knows what the circumstances were, and does it even matter anyway. But living in the basement would seriously be very disturbing for sure, and if he were surrounded by vintage 8-bit computers i wouldn't know to think (the horrors of it all) - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I tried to do the reverse engineering you described on an extra XF551 epoxy module I had back in the 90's and not only failed, but utterly destroyed it in the process. I guess I'll never make it as an Archaeologist . Hey how about putting it into a replicator like on Star Trek? - Michael Just need to find the nearest time warp conduit. Sensors on wide beam, full. Mr Spock, you know what to look for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricortes Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Loses context with people who don't watch SNL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Loses context with people who don't watch SNL. Are you suggesting that Bob is Nick Burns the computer guy? - Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Hallo ricortes A guy whose claim to fame is about stealing everyone's intellectual property that goes to extreme measures to make it so no one can take his. What did he steal from whom? Sincerely Mathy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumzyman Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) i was looking through my old letters back from the early 90ies.. and found the catalog from CSS, did anyone here had "The Impossible" upgrade and can describe how it worked? did it do what the add described? Nir I put "The Impossible" in my very first 800XL back in the late 80s. I still own the machine but its packed away in my parents house somewhere. I loved how it would play the Mission Impossible theme song when you would boot it in Impossible mode. Edit to add more detail: From what I remember it would allow you to make copies of protected disks but the copies could only be used on a system that had the Impossible installed. I think it would step in and fake out the computer when it got to a physical sector it couldn't reproduce on the copy. Edited July 15, 2016 by Bumzyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndary Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Bumzyman if you ever have the chance to pull that computer, i would love to see a picture of the hardware or a short video of the boot process 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Hallo ricortes What did he steal from whom? Sincerely Mathy He didn't (as far as we know). I think what ricortes meant is that a good portion of his claim to fame, was from selling products which enabled everyone else to make unauthorized copies of (otherwise) copy protected software mediums. But in his defense such products can be necessary to make legitimate backups of software you purchased. I'm sure he was always under the impression that's what all the people who bought his products were doing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Bob got back with me this morning. It's not a "no," but it is "not at this time." He says that he does not have the time to search and find what all he still has. So that means, I think, it will remain a project-to-project situation. Sorry the news isn't better. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Sad to say that's the same response I got. When he replied to my emails. This was a couple of years ago. I don't know the real reason why, maybe he is that busy, I doubt it. Maybe he knows he doesn't have anything left and doesn't want to waste time, but can't bring himself to say definitively NO. It was afterall a large part of his life at one point. The reality is that emails and possibly phone calls will not change the situation. It's possible that a personal visit might work. But I wouldn't hold my breath. Would an offer to purchase the remaining pc/hard drives etc work? Maybe...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 ... from selling products which enabled everyone else to make unauthorized copies of (otherwise) copy protected software mediums. But in his defense such products can be necessary to make legitimate backups of software you purchased. Sure. But I always thought it was very ironic that he used to copy protected his products so much, almost at the paranoid level. Kinda saying, "it is fair you make backup copies of your software, except, of course, for the ones we sell ..." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Sure. But I always thought it was very ironic that he used to copy protected his products so much, almost at the paranoid level. Kinda saying, "it is fair you make backup copies of your software, except, of course, for the ones we sell ..." I know. It's like bankruptcy lawyers demanding to get paid up front in order for you to not pay everyone else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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