CPUWIZ Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 The fact that the Switch hardware may be easy to program for doesn't do much to make up for the fact that it's at least half a generation behind the performance of the current leading consoles and many assets in existing games will need to be downgraded to function. I don't know who said it was easy to program for, I would like to meet that person. I have a Switch on my desk, it is about 1/3rd of the power of a PS4 or XB1, most developers will not write an entirely new game and create lower resolution assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Daniels Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) there's several videos on youtube. pretty much more of the same: later -1 that advert pretty much makes me not want to buy a switch but donate money so that girl can get a haircut, fucking hell you could lost in there Edited February 5, 2017 by D.Daniels 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamchevy Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 My Ouya works great! So Happy Happy. Now if I can just find a switch preorder before the scalpers get to it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 My Ouya works great! So Happy Happy. Now if I can just find a switch preorder before the scalpers get to it. I liked the OUYA, too. It's pretty amazing to think that tech is 5 years old and completely passed by. The equivalent tablet is the original 2012 Nexus 7, which ran all the retro emulators perfectly. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexus_7_(2012) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojay1997 Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I don't know who said it was easy to program for, I would like to meet that person. I have a Switch on my desk, it is about 1/3rd of the power of a PS4 or XB1, most developers will not write an entirely new game and create lower resolution assets. I will defer to you as you obviously have the hands on experience. It might just be Nintendo's 3rd party relations team spreading this stuff, but there have been a lot of articles like this one claiming that porting for the Switch is super easy: http://nintendoswitchnetwork.com/nintendo-switch-easy-port/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Daniels Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) I will defer to you as you obviously have the hands on experience. It might just be Nintendo's 3rd party relations team spreading this stuff, but there have been a lot of articles like this one claiming that porting for the Switch is super easy: http://nintendoswitchnetwork.com/nintendo-switch-easy-port/ Development kits can be updated, Sega had a really good one for Saturn but as the Saturn market collapsed it was too late. It maybe possible that Nintendo are updating the kits or in the process. Plus if the Switch does sell well, it wont matter. Developers are like dogs with a bone, if a console is successful. I'm sure someone here knows of a hard to program for system that was successful. Its the programmers you have to feel a bit sorry for as they don't get any choice, its the public who decides which console to buy. Edited February 5, 2017 by D.Daniels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I recall the PS2 being griped about not being easy to code for as the others (GC and XBOX) probably due to that custom 'emotion engine' chip of theirs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 You are making it overtly complicated. The cost reduced "Switch Mini/Micro" would be 3DS xL sized, come without a dock, have the standard USB-C charger, and have the controls permanently attached. External Joycons or additional peripherals could be supported by internal BT connection in tabletop mode. A 3DS like form factor could copy the GBA-SP layout with the screen occupying the full width of the handheld, and the dual sliders and dual triggers on the bottom like with 3DS. Speaker and NFC Amiibo reader could be placed in the middle of the bottom half similar to a GBA-SP, with the gesture cam on the right hand side. Mini docks for connecting to HDTV may be available separately, but games would be locked in 720p mode due to the reduced horsepower. Nintendo could even create a syncing system where save data is synced between the fullsize model and the handheld version so the gamer is never without their device. The Switch Mini would likely replace the 3DS lineup sometime in late 2018 or thereabouts as the 3DS enters it's twilight years, thus allowing a smaller pocket sized form factor for gaming on the go. It doesn't seem over complicated to me. What you are describing seems over complicated with extra peripherals like a mini dock when there is already a dock. And what is up with the reduced horse power? Are you suggesting lower specs too, smaller battery, etc.? The Switch itself is already around 3DS XL sized when the Joy-Cons are off: So, I don't see the need to reinvent the wheel just to remove maybe half an inch from the length when they can just create an accessory that connects to the bottom that uses the same mechanism the the Joy-Cons use to attach to make it a 3DS XL like clamshell. If it were like that then someone with the home console version could just buy that accessory for when they want to take it on the go like that without having to buy a different handheld. And someone who starts with the handheld version out of the box would get the same kind of benefits by being able to later buy all the accessories that come and/or work with the home console version. So, same Switch, same dock, same Joy-Cons, etc. with the only difference being that the home console version comes with a Switch, dock, two Joy-Cons, Joy-Con Grip, HDMI cable, and an AC adaptor while the handheld version would come with a Switch, bottom piece clamshell accessory, and AC adaptor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 It doesn't seem over complicated to me. What you are describing seems over complicated with extra peripherals like a mini dock when there is already a dock. And what is up with the reduced horse power? Are you suggesting lower specs too, smaller battery, etc.? The Switch itself is already around 3DS XL sized when the Joy-Cons are off: So, I don't see the need to reinvent the wheel just to remove maybe half an inch from the length when they can just create an accessory that connects to the bottom that uses the same mechanism the the Joy-Cons use to attach to make it a 3DS XL like clamshell. If it were like that then someone with the home console version could just buy that accessory for when they want to take it on the go like that without having to buy a different handheld. And someone who starts with the handheld version out of the box would get the same kind of benefits by being able to later buy all the accessories that come and/or work with the home console version. So, same Switch, same dock, same Joy-Cons, etc. with the only difference being that the home console version comes with a Switch, dock, two Joy-Cons, Joy-Con Grip, HDMI cable, and an AC adaptor while the handheld version would come with a Switch, bottom piece clamshell accessory, and AC adaptor. Maybe you are right. I keep imagining in my head the Switch tablet will be roughly the same size as a Lynx I, closest thing I can compare it too. People already complain the 3DS xL is too bulky for pockets, but unless you're wearing skin tight jeans, I don't see it as an issue. I will be getting the limited edition Zelda travel pouch as well, gotta see how it stacks up to my Lynx I case. I hope the Zelda pouch has a belt loop on it. Even the new Zelda BOTW game you see Link running around with the tablet device (an analog to the Switch gamepad) prominently featured in the opening credits. Cool they show off some fancy tech that seemingly exists 100 years after Hyrule fell to ruin. Almost a slight Sci-Fi element. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 AC Clarke said, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." You could certainly turn that around and say that the magical Sheikah Slate looks like our modern tech. https://zeldawiki.org/Sheikah_Slate I think it's funny you keep comparing the Switch to the old Lynx, with its battery-eating powers, thick form factor, and postage-stamp-sized low resolution screen. It will be quite ridiculous to see them placed side by side, like a 1980s beige Mac Plus next to a current, thin iMac! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 AC Clarke said, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." You could certainly turn that around and say that the magical Sheikah Slate looks like our modern tech. https://zeldawiki.org/Sheikah_Slate I think it's funny you keep comparing the Switch to the old Lynx, with its battery-eating powers, thick form factor, and postage-stamp-sized low resolution screen. It will be quite ridiculous to see them placed side by side, like a 1980s beige Mac Plus next to a current, thin iMac! Yeah there's no comparison. Just like DMG Game Boy to N3DS xL. I will take side-by-side photos as soon as I get my Switch! As a bonus, I will put the Switch in the Lynx I carry bag, and attempt to do the same with the Lynx in the LE pouch. I imagine the Lynx is way too thick though... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamchevy Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I felt underwhelmed when I learned the screen isn't much bigger than my iPhone 6s Plus screen. It would have been nice to have at least 7-8" of screen. I'm sure it has to do with the 720p resolution choice. I've heard it's cheaper to produce than a 1080p size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 That and under a certain size you really can't see a difference in 720p and 1080p but it's a good bit larger than the 6.? diagonal of this thing. I can't recall maybe it was somewhere around 40" diagonal it becomes evident. Much like for most a 4K TV is pointless unless you get into some huge monster. The Shield tablet does run at that level though with an 8" 1920x1200 283PPI screen while the Switch is 6.2" and 720p so perhaps that drop in nearly 2 inches just doesn't justify around also just keeping costs down. The system is capable of the 1080p on a TV and the chipset (Tegra) can do 4K as well on other (maybe this too with firmware upgrade?) devices too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 I felt underwhelmed when I learned the screen isn't much bigger than my iPhone 6s Plus screen. It would have been nice to have at least 7-8" of screen. I'm sure it has to do with the 720p resolution choice. I've heard it's cheaper to produce than a 1080p size. I felt the same way about the 3DS when it came out, it had about the same graphical capabilities as a PSP and a screen quite a bit worse than my iPhone 3GS at the time. The differentiation should come in software, we should see some crazy Nintendo polish on their flagship stuff. I'm fine with it just being a Zelda Breath of the Wild machine for the rest of the year, and any Virtual Console surprises will just be gravy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Daniels Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) I felt the same way about the 3DS when it came out, it had about the same graphical capabilities as a PSP and a screen quite a bit worse than my iPhone 3GS at the time. The differentiation should come in software, we should see some crazy Nintendo polish on their flagship stuff. I'm fine with it just being a Zelda Breath of the Wild machine for the rest of the year, and any Virtual Console surprises will just be gravy. as long as the Nintendo instructions are in English That and under a certain size you really can't see a difference in 720p and 1080p but it's a good bit larger than the 6.? diagonal of this thing. I can't recall maybe it was somewhere around 40" diagonal it becomes evident. Much like for most a 4K TV is pointless unless you get into some huge monster. The Shield tablet does run at that level though with an 8" 1920x1200 283PPI screen while the Switch is 6.2" and 720p so perhaps that drop in nearly 2 inches just doesn't justify around also just keeping costs down. The system is capable of the 1080p on a TV and the chipset (Tegra) can do 4K as well on other (maybe this too with firmware upgrade?) devices too. I think Nintendo may just update the docks as the years go by, I assume the dock is the upscaler, there probably be an ultra 4k one, and maybe like with emulators, maybe future docks can smooth out any rough edges, Edited February 6, 2017 by D.Daniels 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 That's an interesting idea there with the docks, not sure they'd do it as you'd probably need to add more to the dock to get away with it and that seems beyond their will. I could see 5 years away a Switch sequel that did 4K and the handheld would do 1080p or nicer if it goes over even a 1/3 as well as the Wii or DS did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Daniels Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) That's an interesting idea there with the docks, not sure they'd do it as you'd probably need to add more to the dock to get away with it and that seems beyond their will. I could see 5 years away a Switch sequel that did 4K and the handheld would do 1080p or nicer if it goes over even a 1/3 as well as the Wii or DS did. I was just thinking about the Pro, a lot of older PS4 games are now being updated with Pro features, and maybe it would be cheaper to upgrade the dock rather than the Switch unit itself Edited February 6, 2017 by D.Daniels 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 I mean I guess it could in theory be possible. DO some kind of firmware upgrade to tap into the communication through USB-C with the dock. Have the dock then have whatever added oomph you want with it (more RAM for video, audio, general, etc) or some other additions yet like PS4Pro, require games to work on both, just scaled down to the stock unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Daniels Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 I mean I guess it could in theory be possible. DO some kind of firmware upgrade to tap into the communication through USB-C with the dock. Have the dock then have whatever added oomph you want with it (more RAM for video, audio, general, etc) or some other additions yet like PS4Pro, require games to work on both, just scaled down to the stock unit. that would sound more conventional as the Switch unit could be always the same price itself and any high end tech fans can still have the latest 4k standard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 as long as the Nintendo instructions are in English Funny you mention it. Since the Switch is technically region free, do you guys think there's a remote possibility the Japanese version of the game will have English option, or visa versa? I think it would be cool to get the Japanese release (or USA release if there's just one world region) and play it with Japanese voice acting and English subtitles, kinda like an anime. Ultimate nerd-boner right there if it's in fact possible to access all audios and subtitles in every version... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Maybe you are right. I keep imagining in my head the Switch tablet will be roughly the same size as a Lynx I, closest thing I can compare it too. People already complain the 3DS xL is too bulky for pockets, but unless you're wearing skin tight jeans, I don't see it as an issue. It would still be bulky because the Switch is thick. So, with an attachable bottom clamshell it would be double the thickness but may still fit in pockets or at least better than it does now. It would definitely be thinner than those 3DS Nerf armor cases. Anyway, I wasn't thinking so much about pocket portability but mostly about having the screen and buttons protected without an extra case like going from a Game Boy Advance form factor to a Game Boy Advance SP form factor, to have an extra battery within the attachable bottom clamshell to take Zelda from 3 hours to maybe 6 instead of lugging around an external battery pack, and then being slightly more pocket and/or purse friendly by not being as long with the controls moved from the sides to the bottom. In other words, more about making it more portable by not having to take along more stuff with you instead of being about one size fits all for every pocket. I was also thinking about it being detachable so that it could also be sold separately to use it with a home console version, could be put in tabletop mode with the kickstand and then the bottom clamshell removed to use as a controller in that mode, and the bottom clamshell could also be used as another controller even in TV mode. Anyway, your idea of fitting the Switch in a Lynx I case reminded me of something. Years ago I found one of these third party Game Gear cases at a flea market: At the time I had no idea what it was for because it just says Game System. Later I discovered that it zips up snugly and perfectly around an Atari 7800 as if it was designed for it. I still use it as a dust cover for that today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Daniels Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) Funny you mention it. Since the Switch is technically region free, do you guys think there's a remote possibility the Japanese version of the game will have English option, or visa versa? I think it would be cool to get the Japanese release (or USA release if there's just one world region) and play it with Japanese voice acting and English subtitles, kinda like an anime. Ultimate nerd-boner right there if it's in fact possible to access all audios and subtitles in every version... it must have an option, like when you can switch snes/gen multi region games on emulators, otherwise the region free thing would be rather pointless feature to announce, but I suppose if its a pure jap only your stuck with the jap region code Edited February 6, 2017 by D.Daniels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 it must have an option, like when you can switch snes/gen multi region games on emulators, otherwise the region free thing would be rather pointless feature to announce, but I suppose if its a pure jap only your stuck with the jap region code I mean, if the releases are region free and the consoles are region free, do you think we'll have access to all languages in every region? I couldseect Russian or Japanese audio with English subtitle and pretend it's Hyrilian. What you mention about Genesis is true to an extent. Some (JU) or (World) Megadrive releases use the region code on the console to select the cartridge language. Other games ban out of region consoles but it was left to the publisher. I have thought of adding a NA/JP toggle switch to my Genesis Model 1 but never got around to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Daniels Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) I mean, if the releases are region free and the consoles are region free, do you think we'll have access to all languages in every region? I couldseect Russian or Japanese audio with English subtitle and pretend it's Hyrilian. What you mention about Genesis is true to an extent. Some (JU) or (World) Megadrive releases use the region code on the console to select the cartridge language. Other games ban out of region consoles but it was left to the publisher. I have thought of adding a NA/JP toggle switch to my Genesis Model 1 but never got around to it. maybe but I think it will just be region free, unless a developer chooses to make it multi region for your idea, so your still get Japanese only games, like bus ride Tokyo 3000, anime edition Edited February 7, 2017 by D.Daniels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Unless you can toggle the language within the game it will likely default the language to the region you're in if they do 1 pressing of the game. If they do multiple by region, it will likely just be in that language unless they code many into it anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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