JaguarVision Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 The Atari 5200 and ColecoVision, the start of the third generations of consoles (i don't use the historically inaccurate wikipedia) have quite a library of full and console exclusive games that never appeared on any other consoles during their time or even in many cases after. Below are the Exclusives/Console exclusives that each system had. Which do you believe was better? ColecoVision Exclusives Frenz (Sequel to Berserk) Cabbage patch kids adventures Smurf Destructor Super Action Football War games Alcazar: The Forgotten Fortress Rock n bolt Looping Rocky Action Boxing Slither Subroc 3d Super Action Baseball Gateway to asphai The Heist Pitstop Spectron Space panic Cosmic adventure Atari 5200 Countermeasure Space Dungeon Meteorites Rescue on Fractalus Bounty Bob Strikes back (Sequel to miner 2049er) Zone Ranger Astro Chase Krazy shootout So for my opinion of which had the better exclusive games goes to the ColecoVision. it took some time for me to come to that conclusion as well. As much fun as Zone Ranger, Fractulus, and Space Dungeon are. Which are amazing games. The Colecovision just had things on lock. CBS produced better games and had the public perception that allowed them to gain a few other exclusives as well. I mean Coleco had the sequel to Berserk, Frenzy, which I think undeniably is better than berserk. While the 5200 had a decent looking but not mind blowing version of berserk and krazy shootout which was basically a berserk clone with some downgrades. You had your CBK and Smurf adventures, you had you're Zelda like game with Alcazar, you had racing covered with pitstop, arcade favorites like subroc and rock n bolt, not to mention an early action rpg with gateway to asphai. IMO the Colecovision just had the better exclusive games. I do think the 5200 has some greats but I think even if you cut the quantity tot he same numbers you end up with the same quality gap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Colecovision all the way -- even if many of the arcade ports were from B games, they had so many and so much quirkiness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Okay, but the Atari 5200 did have Missile Command, PacMan, Ms. PacMan, Pole Position, Dig Dug, Robotron, Joust. None of which was on the Colecovision. Colecovision had Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr.; not on the 5200. Pitstop wasn't exclusive to Colecovision. Edit: What mistakes are on wikipedia? Please correct them. Edited June 2, 2017 by mr_me 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Okay, but the Atari 5200 did have Missile Command, PacMan, Ms. PacMan, Pole Position, Dig Dug, Robotron, Joust. None of which was on the Colecovision. Colecovision had Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr.; not on the 5200. Pitstop wasn't exclusive to Colecovision. Edit: What mistakes are on wikipedia? Please correct them. Wikipedia lumps Colecovision & 5200 in the same videogame generation as Atari 2600 & Channel F, which is just insane. I believe that's what he was referring to. Edit: If you change it on Wikipedia, there's the problem of what to do with the rest of the generations. Does 5200 & CV belong in the same generation as NES, or are they separate? If it's decided it's separate, then the other generations would need to be renumbered. Nevermind the fact that most likely your change would be reverted by some editor who will point to a number of citations that support the current numbering scheme. If you want to attempt this edit, I'd suggest using Electronic Games Magazine as a citation. They clearly referred to 5200 and CV as "third wave consoles" back then. Edited June 2, 2017 by zzip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empsolo Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 It's a generation 2 console because people decided to place the dedicated consoles in their own pre generation category. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRTGAMER Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 If you consider the Commodore 64 and Atari 400/800 (both have game cart port), some of the titles are in 8 bit computers. Why the need of negatives claiming which system is better unless this is a budget buying decision? All systems have their own great unique exclusives; maybe focus on the positives of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 It's a generation 2 console because people decided to place the dedicated consoles in their own pre generation category. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk That would be fine if that's what Wikipedia did, but they didn't- the discrete pong systems are Gen 1, Channel F, 2600, 5200, CV are all Gen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Wikipedia lumps Colecovision & 5200 in the same videogame generation as Atari 2600 & Channel F, which is just insane. I believe that's what he was referring to. Edit: If you change it on Wikipedia, there's the problem of what to do with the rest of the generations. Does 5200 & CV belong in the same generation as NES, or are they separate? If it's decided it's separate, then the other generations would need to be renumbered. Nevermind the fact that most likely your change would be reverted by some editor who will point to a number of citations that support the current numbering scheme. If you want to attempt this edit, I'd suggest using Electronic Games Magazine as a citation. They clearly referred to 5200 and CV as "third wave consoles" back then. I wouldn't worry about generations they are meaningless. I was concerned about games lists being innaccurate The Intellivision had 10x the ram of the 2600 and the colecovision/5200 had 10x the ram of the intellivision. They are three different generations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 They're all within a few years of each other and IMHO are fine to lump into the same grouping. Same goes for NES/SMS/SNES/SMD, also in my opinion. As time goes on, the body of work that is videogame history gets larger, so fewer lines of demarcation and broader definitions are needed. Uses cartridges Many arcade ports in software library Plugs into CRT TV with an analog connector Wired controllers Networking as expensive novelty Most pre-1996 systems have more similarities than differences. "Generations" are dumb but complaining about Wikipedia's categorization is dumber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Most pre-1996 systems have more similarities than differences. "Generations" are dumb but complaining about Wikipedia's categorization is dumber. 90% of what we discuss on these forms is dumb or meaningless in the grand scheme of things, yet here we are... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) ColecoVision Exclusives Frenzy (Sequel to Berserk) Cabbage patch kids adventures Smurf Destructor Super Action Football War games Alcazar: The Forgotten Fortress Rock n bolt Looping Rocky Action Boxing Slither Subroc 3d Super Action Baseball Gateway to asphai The Heist Pitstop Spectron Space panic Cosmic adventure Atari 5200 Countermeasure Space Dungeon Meteorites Rescue on Fractalus Bounty Bob Strikes back (Sequel to miner 2049er) Zone Ranger Astro Chase Krazy shootout Smurf also came out on the 2600. Gateway To Apshai, Pitstop, K-Razy Shootout, and Bounty Bob came out on the Atari 400/800 (Gateway and Pitstop also on Commodore 64 IIRC, and probably others). Rescue On Fractalus was also released on the Atari XEGS. I feel like Alcazar might have come out on some of the computer platforms of the day but I'm too lazy to check. Pretty sure Zone Ranger and Astrochase also appeared on the C64 and/or Atari 400/800 as well. Anyway, all things considered, I prefer the Atari 5200's exclusives, and its library in general. Space Dungeon alone would lock this up for me, but Astrochase, K-Razy Shootout, and Bounty Bob are great games. Rescue On Fractalus is also really good, if a little dense for my arcadey sensibilities. On the Coleco I really like Frenzy and Gateway To Apshai, and Pitstop's not bad either, but most of those other games don't do much for me for some reason. Looping's alright but usually just pisses me off. Overall I just like the Atari 5200's lineup better anyway. It's got arguably definitive versions of some of the most definitive arcade games of the era--Missile Command, Centipede, Galaxian, Pac-Man, Berzerk, Defender, etc, and some really great third-party titles, many of which also appeared on the Coleco but are generally better on the 5200 IMO (or at least equal). The Coleco has choppy versions of Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, and a whole bunch of games nobody's ever heard of. Which isn't to say they're bad or anything (quite the opposite, in fact; I love Pepper II, for instance), but when I think of retrogaming, I think of Defender*, Ms. Pac-Man, and Pole Position before I think of Space Fury, Cosmic Avenger, or Turbo. (*Atarisoft released excellent ports of Defender, Centipede, and Galaxian for the Coleco, but my point stands. ) Edited June 2, 2017 by BassGuitari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I'd rather play the originals than crappy covers ... ...and I'd rather have a bunch of indies than tired, played out hits! Zzip, more like 99.44% I think. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 The 5200 does seem awfully slim on exclusives, but Space Dungeon is supposed to be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 The 5200 does seem awfully slim on exclusives, but Space Dungeon is supposed to be good. Back then, the concept of 'exclusive' didn't really exist as such. Until around 82/83, nearly every game was exclusive to its console. Instead, the marketeers focused on having the right arcade ports (or for INTV, having the best sports games). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy62 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I liked the Atari 5200 because I had and somewhere still do have, some great Wico controllers for it. That helped to overcome the bad 5200 controllers so I could play the great games. Bounty Bob strikes back was great, 25 levels worth that were awesome. (a friend of mine designed those, and he should be working on the 10 or 12 level version for the Intellivision now....). What made the 5200 truly great were all the Arcade ports made for it that were almost exact replicas of the Arcade versions. Great stuff, all made by Atari! I still really only collect for the Intellivision, to me that was the best early system made. Just my opinion, it had almost all original games made for it. The sports games are awesome!!! And, the Colecovision was great too, it had those great graphics. Carry on, have fun! Carry on, and have fun! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoofu Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Don't believe anyone really dislike 5200 or Coleco in the day, I had a 5200 for a week before my Dad traded it in for a Colecovision Both did Arcade port well, some better then others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Is it true that thec 5200 launch library consisted of Galaxian, Pac-Man, Space Invaders, and Super Breakout? (From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_console_launch_games ) Its a little weak; some of those games were a little dated by 1982, and Pac-man despite the hype was not a favourite with hard core gamers. And compare Super Breakout as a packin with CVs Donkey Kong. I read Atari had Asteroids ready for launch but the noncentering joysticks were a problem. The 5200 library was probably pretty good for Christmas 1983 but the system was discontinued shortly after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarVision Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Okay, but the Atari 5200 did have Missile Command, PacMan, Ms. PacMan, Pole Position, Dig Dug, Robotron, Joust. None of which was on the Colecovision. Colecovision had Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr.; not on the 5200. Pitstop wasn't exclusive to Colecovision. Edit: What mistakes are on wikipedia? Please correct them. All thew games I listed above were not on the 5200. Pitstop was not on any other console. Almost all your 5200 games were on the 2600 or intellivsion or both. Which was the subject of the threat. While I would still think Coleco won even if we used your different argument, that's not really the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarVision Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Flojomojo They're all within a few years of each other and IMHO are fine to lump into the same grouping. Same goes for NES/SMS/SNES/SMD, also in my opinion. As time goes on, the body of work that is videogame history gets larger, so fewer lines of demarcation and broader definitions are needed. Uses cartridges Many arcade ports in software library Plugs into CRT TV with an analog connector Wired controllers Networking as expensive novelty Most pre-1996 systems have more similarities than differences. "Generations" are dumb but complaining about Wikipedia's categorization is dumber. Flojomojo, The famicom came out in 1983. The Cv/5200 introduced or made standard what many people believe the NES did. They were the ones released near each other. The 1977 atari 2600 is around 5 years to the CV. It's also not dumb, it';s literally historically true that wikipedia is wrong. It's also true that bits were one of the main reasons how the generations came in the form they did back on early wikipedia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarVision Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Smurf also came out on the 2600. Gateway To Apshai, Pitstop, K-Razy Shootout, and Bounty Bob came out on the Atari 400/800 (Gateway and Pitstop also on Commodore 64 IIRC, and probably others). Rescue On Fractalus was also released on the Atari XEGS. I feel like Alcazar might have come out on some of the computer platforms of the day but I'm too lazy to check. Pretty sure Zone Ranger and Astrochase also appeared on the C64 and/or Atari 400/800 as well. Anyway, all things considered, I prefer the Atari 5200's exclusives, and its library in general. Space Dungeon alone would lock this up for me, but Astrochase, K-Razy Shootout, and Bounty Bob are great games. Rescue On Fractalus is also really good, if a little dense for my arcadey sensibilities. On the Coleco I really like Frenzy and Gateway To Apshai, and Pitstop's not bad either, but most of those other games don't do much for me for some reason. Looping's alright but usually just pisses me off. Overall I just like the Atari 5200's lineup better anyway. It's got arguably definitive versions of some of the most definitive arcade games of the era--Missile Command, Centipede, Galaxian, Pac-Man, Berzerk, Defender, etc, and some really great third-party titles, many of which also appeared on the Coleco but are generally better on the 5200 IMO (or at least equal). The Coleco has choppy versions of Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, and a whole bunch of games nobody's ever heard of. Which isn't to say they're bad or anything (quite the opposite, in fact; I love Pepper II, for instance), but when I think of retrogaming, I think of Defender*, Ms. Pac-Man, and Pole Position before I think of Space Fury, Cosmic Avenger, or Turbo. (*Atarisoft released excellent ports of Defender, Centipede, and Galaxian for the Coleco, but my point stands. ) \ The OP says console exclusives. As in was not playable on another console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 \ The OP says console exclusives. As in was not playable on another console. Yes, he did. Which is why I outlined my preference as follows: Smurf also came out on the 2600. Gateway To Apshai, Pitstop, K-Razy Shootout, and Bounty Bob came out on the Atari 400/800 (Gateway and Pitstop also on Commodore 64 IIRC, and probably others). Rescue On Fractalus was also released on the Atari XEGS. I feel like Alcazar might have come out on some of the computer platforms of the day but I'm too lazy to check. Pretty sure Zone Ranger and Astrochase also appeared on the C64 and/or Atari 400/800 as well. Anyway, all things considered, I prefer the Atari 5200's exclusives, and its library in general. Space Dungeon alone would lock this up for me, but Astrochase, K-Razy Shootout, and Bounty Bob are great games. Rescue On Fractalus is also really good, if a little dense for my arcadey sensibilities. On the Coleco I really like Frenzy and Gateway To Apshai, and Pitstop's not bad either, but most of those other games don't do much for me for some reason. Looping's alright but usually just pisses me off. Overall I just like the Atari 5200's lineup better anyway. It's got arguably definitive versions of some of the most definitive arcade games of the era--Missile Command, Centipede, Galaxian, Pac-Man, Berzerk, Defender, etc, and some really great third-party titles, many of which also appeared on the Coleco but are generally better on the 5200 IMO (or at least equal). The Coleco has choppy versions of Donkey Kong, Zaxxon, and a whole bunch of games nobody's ever heard of. Which isn't to say they're bad or anything (quite the opposite, in fact; I love Pepper II, for instance), but when I think of retrogaming, I think of Defender*, Ms. Pac-Man, and Pole Position before I think of Space Fury, Cosmic Avenger, or Turbo. (*Atarisoft released excellent ports of Defender, Centipede, and Galaxian for the Coleco, but my point stands. ) (Note that the OP also rattled off a list of games that weren't exclusives anyway. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarVision Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Yes, he did. Which is why I outlined my preference as follows: (Note that the OP also rattled off a list of games that weren't exclusives anyway. ) The OP said console exclusives, and checking the list all of those would only be on CV or 5200 (except smurf) As for what you said Rescue On Fractalus is a game that really is a surprise on the 5200 machine. I wonder how Coleco would have ran ballblazer in comparison tot he 5200 though. Tilewise the atari 5200 is powerful, and closer to the NES in how its development works, while CV is closer to an arcade/non-tile PC with how its development but has more general power overall (also it's the machine the nes based itself off of.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 In 1983 the Colecovision and Atari 5200 competed against each other. The Atari 2600 and Intellivision were budget systems by that time. The Colecovision also competed against the Commodore 64 which is where I played Pitstop. Nintendo/Sega never competed against Colecovision. Colecovisions Donkey Kong packin over Atari 5200 Super Breakout packin is what gave it the clear edge. That and Atari's faulty controllers. Funny both those systems were discontnued early but the budget Atari 2600s and Intellivisions continued through 1990. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarVision Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) In 1983 the Colecovision and Atari 5200 competed against each other. The Atari 2600 and Intellivision were budget systems by that time. The Colecovision also competed against the Commodore 64 which is where I played Pitstop. Nintendo/Sega never competed against Colecovision. Colecovisions Donkey Kong packin over Atari 5200 Super Breakout packin is what gave it the clear edge. That and Atari's faulty controllers. Funny both those systems were discontnued early but the budget Atari 2600s and Intellivisions continued through 1990. I don't think 1985 was early for colecovision continuation. Sega and Nintendo didn't compete with coleco because the famicom didn't exist yet. The Coleco wasn't competeing with the 2600/intellivsion either. But as I said before it's the same gen of systems. The Coleco/5200/sms/nes are the same gen. It took some years before Nintendo came over (less than a year after the CV was dissolved) but it being over sees does not negate the power/timeframe/historical articles. Edited June 5, 2017 by JaguarVision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 We agree. That's why I pointed out those games because them being on the Atari 2600 or Intellivision doesnt matter if they are not competing. Actually, Intellivision didnt have any of those games in 1983. It would have been interesting had Coleco managed things better and didn't discontinue Colecovision early. They were already getting third party support and their library would have been more interesting than just arcade remakes. Why would a third party developer even bother with Nintendo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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