Keatah Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) What does atari sa have to say about this dustup? And how can one go to crowdfunding without a product? Are people in tech getting stupider and stupider as time goes on? Edited December 18, 2017 by Keatah 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I draw a distinction between saying that AtariBox was a scam (money taken with no reasonable expectation of delivery) and that it was a waste of time (publicity gained through deception and resources squandered from other efforts). I suspect it might be the former, but allow for doubt. I am quite confident in saying it was the latter, however. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwlngmad Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I certainly don't mean Historian (or anyone here for that matter) any disrespect, but in all of his posts he never actually said anything even remotely useful and hasn't done anything to earn respect. Of course, I'm sure it was difficult to say anything specific at all about the Ataribox when he was never given any specifics to begin with. I think we were all just ready for any kind of information, but now the writing is on the wall for the Ataribox. Feargal thought he could use Atari's name and a cool-looking case to get on Indiegogo, rake in some money using some of it to pay someone to make a console, deliver some kind of (probably) mediocre product eventually, and then move on. Just like Mike Kennedy, his endgoal was that Indiegogo campaign, not an actual gaming console... but at least MK was in it for the love of games. Historian, you were right to break ties now but I would suggest waiting to post until you have something of substance to share. Or ask Feargal to come here and speak up for himself. True, The Historian has given us peanut shells at the most. However, cursing at the guy along with some other not-so-nice posts doesn't deserve that treatment either. That being said, I concur with you and believe Feargal, (new) Atari, and/or someone needs to come out and start sharing a heck of lot more information that what has been done up until this point. If people are laughing their butts off at you and calling you something you are not, I would think somebody with a backbone would say something to somebody. For example, the guys behind the Seedi Video Game Console campaign actually went onto a Smash JT's YouTube channel to discuss their background, their failed Indiegogo campaign, and future plans. And they did this with a guy (Smash JT) who called the campaign a scam. Never mind what one thought or thinks of what they were proposing, but that took some guts and class to do. I doubt there will be any chance of that from Feargal, (new) Atari, and/or anyone else from the Ataribox campaign. And that is why Feargal, (new) Atari, and the Ataribox team will fail and explod on the launch pad as the videos from JBerel show so wonderfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwlngmad Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I draw a distinction between saying that AtariBox was a scam (money taken with no reasonable expectation of delivery) and that it was a waste of time (publicity gained through deception and resources squandered from other efforts). I suspect it might be the former, but allow for doubt. I am quite confident in saying it was the latter, however. IMO, it was a colossal waste of time and borderline scam job. Fair enough? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojay1997 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 You mean the crowdfunding path? Of course there are similarities because they are falling the template some crowdfunding guru laid out. But that doesn't mean that all that fallow that template are scams. Some crowdfunded projects succeed and some fail. I'm not going to automatically blame Ataribox for Chameleon's failing. They deserve a chance to succeed or fail on their own. I believe Historian called the first crowdfunding a "mess", that is not the same thing as a scam. Scam implies mal-intent. How many failed ventures did Nolan Bushnell have? Quite a few as I recall. Before Atari he had Syzygy and it did not go well. Was he a scammer? By the standards I see in this thread, he would be. No, I mean literally following the Coleco Chameleon playbook note for note. The only components that Mike Kennedy ever actually had were the outer case (recycled from the Jaguar) and a third party controller. He did the same thing with the slow trickle and promises of full spec revelations and other details only to delay and eventually cancel and then claim that factors beyond his control were at play. He never showed actual hardware, just like Ataribox never has. I have backed some 200 crowdfunded projects at this point, including Ouya and Gamestick and many other hardware and software campaigns. No serious campaign does the slow trickle and delay of the campaign at the last minute nor do they play games with hiding the specs until the campaign launches. Many crowdfunding campaigns do early access now where they put up a full preview of the product and backing tiers weeks before the campaign launches to get feedback from potential backers. The younger generation likes a well run social media campaign, but they also aren't morons and expect that solid information will be available well in advance of being asked for their hard earned money. The Historian agreed that backers of the first campaign "didn't get what they paid for". I'm not sure how that differs from fraud other than perhaps the requisite intent has not been proven. As for Nolan Bushnell, yes, if he started a crowdfunding campaign, I would be very hesitant to back it given his track record over the past 30+ years. I don't know if Bushnell was or is a scammer, but he has certainly faced his share of litigation from unhappy investors. Of course, I'm not aware of Bushnell ever doing a crowdfunding campaign, so the comparison you have raised is a very poor one. I don't think anyone doubts now that the Coleco Chameleon was a fraud. I'm simply saying that all of the same signs are there for Ataribox and the fact that you are encouraging people to keep an open mind despite the same exact red flags is troubling. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) Double Edited December 18, 2017 by godslabrat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 If I learned anything in this thread, it's that apparently we owe Mike Kennedy an apology for calling him a scammer. Neither he nor Atari technically took money. Did both have the intent to make money through deception? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Note the definition doesn't say anything about the outcome; just the act. Definition of scam : a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation an insurance scam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I love Hello Games but I wouldn't say they handled their PR problems very well. I certainly wouldn't look to them as a model of successful communication. I agree Hello Games didn't do PR well. I don't even think they had a proper PR person. But honestly I can't fault them for going silent on Twitter for awhile. They knew their update would have to speak for them. If they said anything it would be ripped to shreds as "empty promises". But they weren't silent more than 4 days before people online were saying that it was proof they weren't working on the game anymore; that they took the money ran; they knew someone who knew someone who works near the HG offices and they were now vacant. It was all nonsense of course. People are so quick to judge and crucify. I don't understand it. I can understand skepticism towards Ataribox. I can't understand the hostility. Don't like crowdfunding? Don't fund it! But I seriously doubt such niche products would exist in today's world without going the crowdfunding route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 What does atari sa have to say about this dustup? And how can one go to crowdfunding without a product? Are people in tech getting stupider and stupider as time goes on? THERE IS NO ATARI! 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 THERE IS NO ATARI! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 One small correction to Flojomojo: I mentioned this on 12/14, but Ataribox Facebook did have an announcement page they put up on Dec.11th. They took it off the front page that morning, and is sort of hidden, though the post can still be found here. I believe it was the only one of all their social media presences that mentioned the event. The brunt of their marketing was done through email, virally, and tech bloggers. Thanks for the link. Perhaps they thought that since it was no longer on the front of their Facebook wall, they wouldn't need to answer questions about the delay. I'll paste a screencap here since these things have a way of vanishing when failed projects shut down. Maybe they should have chosen 17/17/17 as their launch date instead. That would have given them plenty of time to prepare. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 If I learned anything in this thread, it's that apparently we owe Mike Kennedy an apology for calling him a scammer. Neither he nor Atari technically took money. Did both have the intent to make money through deception? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Note the definition doesn't say anything about the outcome; just the act. Actually, Kennedy did take money. Once he opened his ill-fated indiegogo, currency was exchanged, albeit later refunded. Once you open the till, you're officially a scammer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Actually, Kennedy did take money. Once he opened his ill-fated indiegogo, currency was exchanged, albeit later refunded. Once you open the till, you're officially a scammer. He wouldn't have received money unless the fixed-funding goal was met. From what I'm reading in this thread, as long as some day he puts out a product that's A-OK. Even Kennedy could have put out something for $2 million. Everything I learned in two giant RVGS/Chameleon threads is crashing down around me (you can't hear my sarcasm). Anyway, the point was that they're both very similar. The difference is that Atari may have pulled the plug before Ataribox pulled a Kennedy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+frankodragon Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 So would you say Feargal is half-shaven or half stubble? Oh and BTW, here's a larger pic of him with some sharpened detail. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 It's even there in lower detail! Via Twitter: So would you say Feargal is half-shaven or half stubble? Oh and BTW, here's a larger pic of him with some sharpened detail. feargal_closer.jpg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Would look cooler with the opposite eyebrow shaved off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Would look cooler with the opposite eyebrow shaved off. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) Words no-one has ever uttered before in this context: "can we get that in a Brazilian?" Edited December 19, 2017 by x=usr(1536) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 They say not to use a mug shot for your Linked In pic... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgdgagdae Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Who wants to play a drinking game with me? Take a shot every time someone says something to the effect of, "this isn't how it was in the 1970s" 10 minutes around Keatah, and we'll all be blitzed. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KaeruYojimbo Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 How many failed ventures did Nolan Bushnell have? Quite a few as I recall. Before Atari he had Syzygy and it did not go well. Was he a scammer? By the standards I see in this thread, he would be. Syzygy was Atari. Same company, same people, just a name change as someone else had trademarked Syzygy. At least the Chameleon announced that the plan was to have a cartridge-based console that played retro-style games. Ataribox didn't even give us that much. All we know is it's a box and it does...things? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 and starts at 250 bucks 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+frankodragon Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amstari Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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