New Atari Console that Ataribox?

[TheVgaTv]

Just noticed that on their indiegogo page for the Onyx systems they have removed the "units claimed" and have replaced it with "xxxxx left". Still pretty easy to figure out the math since they set the number available at 25k.

 

Also worth noting is that the limited edition woodgrain stops being available on June 11th, at which point the sales of thing thing are going to plummet even further than they already are.

[PlaysWithWolves]

New Speakerhat accessory?

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

Point: Atari says that the VCS is coming no matter what, and the crowdfunding's purpose was to build a crowd, not to fund the project.

 

Something I've found amusing about their 'we're crowdfunding to build a crowd' approach: this means that the only way they can build a following is if people pay them for the privilege of waiting in line for hardware that may or may not materialise.

 

This is particularly perplexing to me, because they tried doing all of the usual FaceTwitGram social media stuff that's so popular with the kids these days to build that crowd. It appears as though they knew that they needed a captive audience through to release in order to look like people were thronging around them, and what better way to build that captive audience by taking their money with promises of product delivery later?

 

For Atari SA's sake, I do hope that they're able to actually deliver on what they've been promising. If not, it could be another Spectrum Vega+ fiasco in the making (and I note that a couple of days ago Indiegogo gave those folks two weeks to deliver a working prototype or be sent to collections, so Indiegogo is at least taking enforcement of its terms seriously on some level).

[godslabrat]

Serious question... if we were to grant that Atari SE could raise 3 million, or even 4 million, from this campaign... how much of that will actually be put into creating the ecosystem? A huge chunk will have to go into producing the actual hardware (an amount likely to be higher than the Frenchmen are estimating) then indiegogo takes their cut... and then, and this needs to be said, you better believe that Atari SA is going to skim some off the top to distribute as pure profit. There is NO WAY these clowns are going to pass up cashing in just so they can fund a future development cycle.

 

So my question is, once you subtract the indiegogo cut, the funds needed to build and ship, and the company paying itself... what is left to actually fund the future of the VCS? Even with millions to start with, that won't be a very large number.

[Flojomojo]

Just noticed that on their indiegogo page for the Onyx systems they have removed the "units claimed" and have replaced it with "xxxxx left". Still pretty easy to figure out the math since they set the number available at 25k.

 

I think it depends on how you view it (desktop vs mobile, campaign overview vs perks screen).

 

If you click the big pink "back it" button, you'll see the #claimed for each individual thing, except for the hidden perks.

 

You'd think they'd want those visible for bragging purposes, but perhaps the early adopters numbers will be washed away by the massive influx of newly minted Atari fans, drawn to this amazing, innovative entertainment platform. Like flies to ?.

[Flojomojo]

Something I've found amusing about their 'we're crowdfunding to build a crowd' approach: this means that the only way they can build a following is if people pay them for the privilege of waiting in line for hardware that may or may not materialise.

 

This is particularly perplexing to me, because they tried doing all of the usual FaceTwitGram social media stuff that's so popular with the kids these days to build that crowd. It appears as though they knew that they needed a captive audience through to release in order to look like people were thronging around them, and what better way to build that captive audience by taking their money with promises of product delivery later?

 

For Atari SA's sake, I do hope that they're able to actually deliver on what they've been promising. If not, it could be another Spectrum Vega+ fiasco in the making (and I note that a couple of days ago Indiegogo gave those folks two weeks to deliver a working prototype or be sent to collections, so Indiegogo is at least taking enforcement of its terms seriously on some level).

I think it's a mistake to take everything they say at face value. You have to read between the lines. There are more clues in their corporate communication than in the stuff they aim at the "community."

 

The long game is to juice up the brand and have themselves taken seriously as a platform owner, a company that controls the whole stack from hardware to software to IP, the landlord who collects rent. Not some tenant serf who pays rent to someone else.

 

They got a big cash infusion from somewhere --private investors, presumably-- and the people running the project are on salary to deliver *something* within schedule and budget constraints, then declare victory, take their paycheck, and go home. Notice that their designer (Moak with the big white beard) doesn't have this on his LinkedIn page? It's just a contract job. Note that Atari SA has told their shareholders the project was crowdfunded to reduce risk to the company.

 

Watch what they do, not what they say.

 

The fact that this is featured on the front page of IndieGogo is great for Atari SA, even if the "console" doesn't go anywhere. The fact that people are already talking about it being a "big crowdfunding success," despite the modest actual numbers, is catnip to the people who write press releases. The fact that the stock hopped up a few cents makes certain bean-counting people (not the video game playing audience) perk up their ears.

 

The "VCS" doesn't need to set the world ablaze for them to exploit the attention they're getting, to ask for more money (whether from shareholders or outside investors or even the public again) so they can "apply the lessons learned from manufacturing and community input to build the VCS2 that the audience deserves."

 

So long as it's working for them, they're going to continue. Whether you consider this a con job or just business depends on your perspective and personal values. They don't seem to have done anything illegal and they don't seem to have disappointed their paying fans yet.

 

A buyout offer seems slightly more likely to me -- their reputation is up a small amount, and it's early enough in the honeymoon period they've only made a few embarrassing business cockups.

 

Don't worry, there will be more of those. It's still Atari in that regard.

 

- From the astute business analysis minds of Flojomojo, Bubble, and Squeak

[youxia]

So, I kind of got curious who actualy are the "Atari SA". I'm afraid that their Wikipedia page does not make for pretty reading if you're fan of the original brand and glory days.

Atari, SA (formerly Infogrames Entertainment, SA) is a French holding company headquartered in Paris. Its subsidiaries include Atari Interactive and Atari, Inc. Because of continuing pressures upon the company, and difficulty finding investors, it sought bankruptcy protection under French law in January 2013; its subsidiaries in the United States have sought Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection as well. All three subsidiaries have since exited bankruptcy, and are all going through a vigorous turnaround campaign

 

Probably best not to dwell on the Bankruptcy paragraph, which describes how they sold off loads of their famous money making franchises, got into "social casinos", and were down to 10 people. Why be negative. After all - there's a "vigorous turnaround campaign". So all is good, I suppose - these corporate heavyweights know how to do this stuff, right?

 

The strategy is focused on "download games, MMO games, mobile games and licensing activities, based in priority around traditional franchises."

Projects currently in production or included in the turnaround strategy include: Alone in the Dark: Illumination Roller & Coaster Tycoon World

Respective Metacritic scores: 19/100 & 44/100. There was also a "LGBT mobile game" and "Lunar Lander". Phew.
The next step in the Vigorous Turnaround Campaign? The VCS.

 

the product was initially launched via a crowdfunding campaign in order to minimise financial risk to the parent company

Wise move, given their history I suppose.

 

Ok, so I'm shooting fish in the barrel, probably that makes me a "hater" and all that, but...it's pretty sad really. I'd say, somebody take this corporate Old Yeller behind a shed and put it out of its zombified misery. Perhaps the brand would then land in hands of people who actually have a clue, or maybe some time off in a Vintage Heaven would do it good. It sure deserves it, after years of being re-animated by thirsty suits over and over again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheVgaTv]

Serious question... if we were to grant that Atari SE could raise 3 million, or even 4 million, from this campaign... how much of that will actually be put into creating the ecosystem? A huge chunk will have to go into producing the actual hardware (an amount likely to be higher than the Frenchmen are estimating) then indiegogo takes their cut... and then, and this needs to be said, you better believe that Atari SA is going to skim some off the top to distribute as pure profit. There is NO WAY these clowns are going to pass up cashing in just so they can fund a future development cycle.

 

So my question is, once you subtract the indiegogo cut, the funds needed to build and ship, and the company paying itself... what is left to actually fund the future of the VCS? Even with millions to start with, that won't be a very large number.

 

 

 

Let's say they hit the $3 million mark, which seems to be the path they are on given the significant drop off after day 1.

 

Right off the bat, Indiegogo takes 5%, and the credit card processing company they use takes 3%. So that's $240,000 right there

 

$2,760,000 goes to Atari

 

Historically speaking, profit margins on consoles are incredibly low (with most of the money being made on accessories/online fees/etc). But for the sake of argument let's assume that this system has a huge markup and the console itself only costs $150 to produce (parts plus assembly, and including the controllers for the sake of simplicity). They have sold about 7,000 units so far, and if they hit the 3 million number they'll be at 10k units (average of 3,500 per million dollars so far, but prices go up after next week's early bird specials end. Plus it's early and 10k is a lot easier to do math on). So with these numbers that's $1.5 million in console production costs.

 

$1,260,000 remaining.

 

So with that amount they still need to produce a second prototype, do extensive testing, manufacture it and ship it. Let's go cheap and say that it'll cost $260,000 to do the prototype and extensive testing.

 

$1,000,000 remaining.

 

There are also 9 core people listed on the indiegogo page, who will have worked for 2+ years on this project assuming it ships on time. If they just took that million and split it up, they would have gotten $55,555 a year for the last two years worth of work.

 

Of course I've left out a TON of things (software, licensing, advertising, etc).

 

So long story short, nobody involved with this is going to make much of anything unless they just take the $3 million and run.

[+x=usr(1536)]

Watch what they do, not what they say.

 

This is very much the approach I've been taking. But there are components of their actions that seem almost predestined to shoot them in the foot, and there's something about those actions that I can't help but try to understand.

 

Ultimately, I'm not 100% certain what Chesnais' end game with Atari is, but I am fairly well convinced that it's an albatross around his neck and that he'd like to be rid of it. Whether the AtariVCSbox is the vehicle by which he hopes that can be made to happen remains to be seen, but it's hard to imagine anyone else wanting the company in the state that it's been in during (and before) his tenure.

[Flojomojo]

Remember, they don't need to fool everyone. Just enough so they can stay afloat.

 

Nobody on their list of principals is doing this full time as their only day job.

[godslabrat]

This is very much the approach I've been taking. But there are components of their actions that seem almost predestined to shoot them in the foot, and there's something about those actions that I can't help but try to understand.

 

Ultimately, I'm not 100% certain what Chesnais' end game with Atari is, but I am fairly well convinced that it's an albatross around his neck and that he'd like to be rid of it. Whether the AtariVCSbox is the vehicle by which he hopes that can be made to happen remains to be seen, but it's hard to imagine anyone else wanting the company in the state that it's been in during (and before) his tenure.

 

 

Kind of what I'm wondering, and I concur with TheVGATV's breakdown of the pure numbers. Atari can either make money or build a console brand, they cant do both on a few million.

 

Speculation: they want to build the project up to be attractive to a bigger, more competent (albeit less familiar with their screw ups) electronics company, let that company buy the project wholesale, make some quick cash and be rid of the Atari name forever. Then the actual production becomes someone else's problem and all the profits go into their pockets.

[digdugnate]

 

Ask them to add steak to it. It's ridiculous but trust me. Made me shout "AMERICA!"

duuude. you just, like, blew my mind with that. ill have to ask for that!

[Dr Manhattan]

Just checked on the funding campaign. Things have slowed quite a bit, but the most recent totals are $2,348,481 raised by 9064 backers. At this point I'm saying that $3 Million dollars and 10,000 backers is very likely. Spin it anyway you want, that's a smashing success. I definitely did not see that coming.

 

To put things into perspective, Ouya raised $8.5 Million in crowd funding, and then secured another $15 Million in private funding. The console had an enormous library of games, emulators, and media software. There was even two versions of the original hardware, the original model and the slightly improved black version which was sold at Target stores. Of course, Ouya was massively ridiculed from day one. It had an awful controller and the original hardware had big problems. Atari has a recognizable brand, a sweet looking retro controller, and a decent back catalog. If this thing makes it to retail shelves it could be a moderate success.

 

My last thought is, I wonder how much Atari is investing into this console? I can't imagine they're going to rely completely on crowd funding revenue alone.

[TheVgaTv]

Just checked on the funding campaign. Things have slowed quite a bit, but the most recent totals are $2,348,481 raised by 9064 backers. At this point I'm saying that $3 Million dollars and 10,000 backers is very likely. Spin it anyway you want, that's a smashing success. I definitely did not see that coming.

 

To put things into perspective, Ouya raised $8.5 Million in crowd funding, and then secured another $15 Million in private funding. The console had an enormous library of games, emulators, and media software. There was even two versions of the original hardware, the original model and the slightly improved black version which was sold at Target stores. Of course, Ouya was massively ridiculed from day one. It had an awful controller and the original hardware had big problems. Atari has a recognizable brand, a sweet looking retro controller, and a decent back catalog. If this thing makes it to retail shelves it could be a moderate success.

 

My last thought is, I wonder how much Atari is investing into this console? I can't imagine they're going to rely completely on crowd funding revenue alone.

 

 

 

if they hit $3 million it means they are going to sell around 10,000 consoles. That is a complete and total failure. The Ouya sold nearly 70,000 consoles on their Kickstarter and it wasn't anywhere near enough to create a viable marketplace, with the top selling game only moving about 7,000 copies. And the 10k number is going to be far less when you consider the number of collector speculators who jumped in on day 1 to buy the limited edition woodgrain edition and who will never open/play it.

[Dr Manhattan]

 

if they hit $3 million it means they are going to sell around 10,000 consoles.

 

You're assuming this product will only be sold through the crowd funding campaign.

[+Nathan Strum]

Serious question... if we were to grant that Atari SE could raise 3 million, or even 4 million, from this campaign... how much of that will actually be put into creating the ecosystem?

I don't think they're going to build an ecosystem. They're "joining forces" with an "industry leading partner" who will set up their store for them. Presumably. They're so bereft of any programming ability, they have yet to show any actual working version of anything - not even their so-called User Interface. Just video fakery and mockups. They're not coding any games themselves - Code Mystics is behind Atari Vault, Llamasoft is doing Tempest 4000 (although they apparently don't know it yet ), and they don't have anyone else to announce:

Browse countless new and classic games from both Atari and a host of partner studios and publishers. While we can't list all the great partners we will have just yet, gamers will be thrilled on day one.

Atari has no internal resources to put an ecosystem together, so anything they do will have to be piggybacked on someone else. Plus, I'm certain they don't really want to support an ecosystem anyway. That would take an ongoing commitment of time, money, and personnel, and AtariSA is about doing the least amount of work for whatever money they can squeeze out of their IPs.

[TheVgaTv]

 

You're assuming this product will only be sold through the crowd funding campaign.

 

 

 

Where else is it going to be sold? if they only have 10k consoles pre-sold then they are going to have a very difficult time attracting developers to develop games for the system. Without having high end content, there isn't going to be a demand for the system from the average player. If there isn't content and demand, no store is going to offer up limited shelf space. Also they are going to have a next to impossible task of explaining why someone should buy this over an X-Box One S, which has 4k playback and a Blu Ray player built in to go along with a mountain of content from 3 generations of systems, and oh yeah, is cheaper.

 

Long story short, there is no clear path to this console becoming viable and having a thriving marketplace.

Edited June 2, 2018 by TheVgaTv

[+Nathan Strum]

Ultimately, I'm not 100% certain what Chesnais' end game with Atari is, but I am fairly well convinced that it's an albatross around his neck and that he'd like to be rid of it.

He'd like it to be as valuable as he fantasizes that it is. He'll squeeze every last dime (or Euro) out of it that he thinks he can. Once he can no longer make enough money off it for it to be worth his time, he'll sell off the IP piecemeal, and that will be the final end of Atari. If he personally profits from the Ataribox, he'll consider it a success, even if by all other accounts it's a complete disaster. If he doesn't, he'll blame something else - a downturn in the gaming industry, the economy, third party vendors, sunspots, whatever.

[alexkeaton]

 

if they hit $3 million...That is a complete and total failure.

 

Are you even serious or are you troling?

 

What do you mean with a Crowdfunding campaign success of 3 Million Dollar to be a complete and total failure?

Are you Guys even checking your own posts in your hate anymore?

Just everybody admit that your wish that this should fail big time has not come true. Your negative expectations were proven wrong.

They made 2.3 Millions!!! Yes you read it correctly: 2.3 Millions.

Why cant you Guys admit that Atari exceeded all expectations to a level which not even Atari would have expected.

[jaybird3rd]

Must ... resist ... feeding the troll ...

[godslabrat]

Are you even serious or are you troling?

 

What do you mean with a Crowdfunding campaign success of 3 Million Dollar to be a complete and total failure?

Are you Guys even checking your own posts in your hate anymore?

Just everybody admit that your wish that this should fail big time has not come true. Your negative expectations were proven wrong.

They made 2.3 Millions!!! Yes you read it correctly: 2.3 Millions.

Why cant you Guys admit that Atari exceeded all expectations to a level which not even Atari would have expected.

3 million is not a lot of money with which to launch a console. Ouya couldn't do it with four times that.

[dj_convoy]

Also, an Ouya on retail shelves was a hundred bucks. This thing is three hundred-ish now and who knows what if it miraculously makes it to shelves.

 

Three million dollars sounds good. It sounds great!

 

It's not.

[TheVgaTv]

 

Are you even serious or are you troling?

 

What do you mean with a Crowdfunding campaign success of 3 Million Dollar to be a complete and total failure?

Are you Guys even checking your own posts in your hate anymore?

Just everybody admit that your wish that this should fail big time has not come true. Your negative expectations were proven wrong.

They made 2.3 Millions!!! Yes you read it correctly: 2.3 Millions.

Why cant you Guys admit that Atari exceeded all expectations to a level which not even Atari would have expected.

 

 

Yes, it's a complete and total failure. With a user base of, at most, 10,000 that is nowhere near enough to attract developers, which means they won't be able to get into stores. This result pretty much gaurantees that the project is going to be a failure

[toiletunes]

Not 3 million, but 3 millions. Yes you read it correctly, 3 millions.

Edited June 2, 2018 by toiletunes

[PlaysWithWolves]

 

You're assuming this product will only be sold through the crowd funding campaign.

 

 

The last entry on the IGG timeline graph says "MID 2019 Product Available Worldwide'. So it seems they want a retail release, as you implied.