Flojomojo Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 An angry mob is still a "community," is it not? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 easily downloadable != out of the box installed, I can already download any emulator I please, doesnt come installed just cause linux your original statement I quoted was why would you assume that, no distro comes with emulators pre installed except for one, and it specifically says you are in violation for selling it or a machine with it installed, or any other media with it pre installed I think its safe to assume you are talking out of your ass Apparently most people here don't know how pretty much all distributions work. You can create a 'preseed' or 'kickstart' (depending on base distro) that will install a set of packages. So yeah, RetroArch isn't the only distro out there that can be installed with pre-installed emulators. You literally edit a text file and slap it on your Installer image. Hell, they could set up something like an initial setup script that just installs the stuff on the fly. It'd be easy enough that even I could write it. They could even get around the pre-installed retroarch thing by sending a USB stick with the box and have instructions to plug the stick in on first boot up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 For the most part, they are selling you hardware. If you ask nicely, they might even take the free stuff off for you if you don't want it. This is a fair point, I have to admit. If a F/OSS licence permits bundling of F/OSS software with commercial hardware or media, then it's an above-board move. Attribution, source bundling / contribution, and other requirements of that licence are a different matter, but if there's no violation of them then there's no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Historian Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) I'm asking this in all honesty: does this community not count, or does it not fall within your purview?That's not to say that we're being discounted (though I really have no idea if that's the case or not), but I am trying to understand how you're positioned here in light of your above statement. Yes, this is a community but I'm here as a member. I'm might pop in to offer opinions, when I cannot give facts. I've made no secret of my affiliation with AtariBox or that I'm biased on this subject. But this is not a community I manage. The mods here could toss me out and I would respect that. I don't feel like my voice is very loud or that I've earned the full trust and respect of this community, which would ultimately be needed if any of you were to join an AtariBox Community An angry mob is still a "community," is it not?More like a democracy. Edited November 16, 2017 by The Historian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) An angry mob is still a "community," is it not? Yes, absolutely. And that was actually one of the things I was curious about, as it happens. Edited November 16, 2017 by x=usr(1536) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiffsGamingVideos Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 If the AtaariMintBox is 'open source' that anyone can put any Linux game on, then it won't get many developers. It'll just be mostly exports from Unity to Linux of games. Please for the love of the Gods, Atari should never mention the L word again (and I dont mean the muff diving HBO show). Someone willhack the system and post online how to do it for those few who want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) Apparently most people here don't know how pretty much all distributions work. You can create a 'preseed' or 'kickstart' (depending on base distro) that will install a set of packages. So yeah, RetroArch isn't the only distro out there that can be installed with pre-installed emulators. You literally edit a text file and slap it on your Installer image. Hell, they could set up something like an initial setup script that just installs the stuff on the fly. It'd be easy enough that even I could write it. They could even get around the pre-installed retroarch thing by sending a USB stick with the box and have instructions to plug the stick in on first boot up. yea but you assume that the makers of "buy something from alibaba and slap a logo on it" is actually going to put forth the effort to customize a linux distro ... and adbide by its licences If the AtaariMintBox is 'open source' that anyone can put any Linux game on, then it won't get many developers. It'll just be mostly exports from Unity to Linux of games. Please for the love of the Gods, Atari should never mention the L word again (and I dont mean the muff diving HBO show). Someone willhack the system and post online how to do it for those few who want it. that's the thing now your paying 300 + dollars for a generic system in a stylish plastic shell, why would I pay ataribawx a red cent more for software I can already install, especially given it will take a grand total of 10 seconds before tutorials pop up its not a sustainable model Edited November 16, 2017 by Osgeld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcoleiro1 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Yes, this is a community but I'm here as a member. I'm might pop in to offer opinions, when I cannot give facts. I've made no secret of my affiliation with AtariBox or that I'm biased on this subject. But this is not a community I manage. The mods here could toss me out and I would respect that. I don't feel like my voice is very loud or that I've earned the full trust and respect of this community, which would ultimately be needed if any of you were to join an AtariBox Community So do you manage the Ataribox Facebook page community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 manage is a very loose word in this scene 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Historian Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) So do you manage the Ataribox Facebook page community? I do not manage any of the social media accounts. Facebook isn't a good platform for a community. Edited November 16, 2017 by The Historian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 manage is a very loose word in this scene These cats... They herd poorly. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 I do not manage any of the social media accounts. Facebook isn't a good platform Fixed that for you. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Historian Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Fixed that for you. I would not disagree. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 easily downloadable != out of the box installed, I can already download any emulator I please, doesnt come installed just cause linux your original statement I quoted was why would you assume that, no distro comes with emulators pre installed except for one, and it specifically says you are in violation for selling it or a machine with it installed, or any other media with it pre installed I think its safe to assume you are talking out of your ass notice the complete lack of acknowledgement, the one loan knight sent into the lions den says emulators preinstalled is a given cause linux, then silence 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 yea but you assume that the makers of "buy something from alibaba and slap a logo on it" is actually going to put forth the effort to customize a linux distro ... and adbide by its licences that's the thing now your paying 300 + dollars for a generic system in a stylish plastic shell, why would I pay ataribawx a red cent more for software I can already install, especially given it will take a grand total of 10 seconds before tutorials pop up its not a sustainable model I would pay 300 bucks for an open source based game console. Sounds like it would be powerful enough to play all but the most demanding MAME roms. If it were configured up right to do so where I could rapidly select a game to play? One thing that annoys me to this day is thelong load times. Sure, we did the trade off long ago for more content vs long load times, but most consoles boot as fast as a computer does, and we worry about operating systems on it. Funny thing is, there are SO many that say if it doesn't have streaming services, it will fail... most likely people already have a plethora of devices that do that. Would be nice to have one that just games.... Okay, the argument could be made that maybe someone could only afford one system... but at this stage (or say this time next year when/if it is released for a while) who would buy the Ataribox instead of an PS4/Switch/Xbox? I think the only ones for sure thatill buy this are the hardcore ones that either must have all consoles, or must have all things Atari. Or people that think they will be n investment in 30 years when the 'retro' scene is this generation. (When I was your age we didn't have our own personal VR suit, and information beamed into your retinas, we had to plug the cartridge and watch the video output on a television....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) sudo apt-get install all_the_emulators PROFIT! Edited November 16, 2017 by x=usr(1536) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 notice the complete lack of acknowledgement, the one loan knight sent into the lions den says emulators preinstalled is a given cause linux, then silence Probably because I answered the question. So the tricky bits about preinstalled emulators, and this holds true for RetroArch as well. Preinstalled is EASY. Pre-configured.. is something entirely difficult. Namely because you need the OS level roms for most of them, and who knows who has the rights to which? That I think is where the Atari store would have to come into play. Though to be fair I don't think Stella requires anything outside of the cartridge images, but all the 8bit emulators and beyond sure seem to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 sudo apt-get install all_the_emulatorsPROFIT! CLOSE! sudo apt install games-emulator https://packages.debian.org/stretch/games-emulator 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 CLOSE! sudo apt install games-emulator https://packages.debian.org/stretch/games-emulator Okay, we've solved the AtariBox software problem. Anyone know a good package manager for making hardware? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) Probably because I answered the question. So the tricky bits about preinstalled emulators, and this holds true for RetroArch as well. Preinstalled is EASY. Pre-configured.. is something entirely difficult. Namely because you need the OS level roms for most of them, and who knows who has the rights to which? That I think is where the Atari store would have to come into play. Though to be fair I don't think Stella requires anything outside of the cartridge images, but all the 8bit emulators and beyond sure seem to. Atari VCS doesn't have any internal ROM/BIOS. And Altirra Atari 400/800 8-bit emulator comes with its own operating system - original ROMS/BIOS is optional. Though I don't think ataribox is going to be able to run Altirra, because Linux. For appearances sake, wouldn't ataribox want to use their own front-end with appropriately styled graphics for each emulator? If so then they're gonna hafta abide by the GPL and release their modded sourcecode. HEY!! What happened to RetroN 77? Did atari shut that down or something? Edited November 16, 2017 by Keatah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Unsurprising. Linux has managed to remain relevant over the course of the last 20 years; Atari hasn't except perhaps to people like us. Which is one of the reasons I'm claiming that more people are Linux fans than Atari ones. Linux also benefits from having a zero-dollar cost of entry (though not ongoing or embedded costs, but that's an entirely different discussion). Give just about anything other than herpes away for free and people will clamour to get it. Now ask them to pay $300 for the same thing (including herpes) and see what happens. There are Linux fans that buy Linux computers for that much and more. $300 is around Chromebook cheap for a Linux computer. Here's the thing: the RasPi is a computer selling in the $5 to $35 range to a couple of very specific markets (education, home hobbyists). It's not a $300 game console, which is targeted at a completely different market altogether. Trying to convince people in the market for a RasPi that they should spend nearly nine times as much for a device that also happens to do RasPi-like things is a losing proposition for everyone involved. And yes, I realise that my above maths are based on the price of a standalone RasPi board, not one with items like a case, storage, or power supply added on that actually make it useful. Add those in and close the gap in the price factor; it continues to not matter. A $65-$85 computer still isn't in competition with a $300 game console, regardless of the OS installed on either one. I'm not talking about people buying the Ataribox as a replacement for the Raspberry Pi. I was just using it as an example of there being more Linux fans than Atari fans. I believe there are more people running Linux than all of us who own Atari hardware/software combined. I'm also not arguing from the perspective of marketing it as a $300 game console that is going up against the Big 3. I think that is an unrealistic goal. I'm arguing from the perspective of it being marketed as a Linux based general purpose PC with a focus on gaming. Doubtful. With the exception of people on Slashdot who spend their days trying to figure out how to cleverly insert currency symbols into the spellings of non-Linux-based software and hardware products' names, nobody cares. Consider this: how many people do you believe actually care that their TV runs Linux? Or their phone? Or their car's sat-nav unit, or their bank's web server, or <insert other piece of technology here>? I'm sure that there's at least a couple of dozen. And that's nice for them, but to the rest of the world, they don't care how it works, just that it works. I think those questions are irrelevant because this is about Linux used as an OS. More relevant questions would be: How many people use Linux as their primary OS? How many people buy the Linux versions of Steam games when possible? How many use WINE for games? How many dual boot Windows just for what gaming options are lacking on Linux but hope for more gaming options to be able to drop Windows? How many use emulators? How many prefer to buy computers with Linux preinstalled? I don't know the answers but I believe their numbers are higher than Atari fans. Those who use Linux already have Linux They won't be buying an Atari. They already have Linux computers. Also, most of them are outside the US particularly foreign governments. They take the source code and compile it themselves to avoid NSA/CIA hacking. Then when they are looking for a new computer they could have an Atari one as an option or with the computers they already own they could download the Atari Linux distro or just the Atari store. They can sell their own hardware while having their platform hardware agnostic. If they are going to try to resurrect the Atari brand it makes more sense to me for them to do so more in line with their personal computers than their consoles or maybe a combination of the two like the XEGS idea because the Atari 2600 was already beaten like a dead horse in the 80's with the Junior(Under $50!) and even more so in modern times with the Flashbacks, a console/computer combination business model would be more inclusive of all Atari fans than just the 2600 ones making it slightly less niche, Linux is a good market to target because it has less gaming options than other platforms and going after both Linux and Atari fans may be niche but not as niche as just Atari fans, and trying to sell a console with the platform locked to it would require them to sell millions of consoles like the Big 3 if there are AAA $60 games or billions of consoles like phones if there are race to the bottom prices of indie games which is a Mike Kennedy bat shit crazy unrealistic business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+TwentySixHundred Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Anyone that thinks they can come to an Atari site and be optimistic about the new system is preposterous. New suits, old suits, shit system, good system, scheme or not it's absurd to be excited about the system. We're not tolerating that enthusiasm here. Oh and if anyone decides to backchat me remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Anyone that thinks they can come to an Atari site and be optimistic about the new system is preposterous. New suits, old suits, shit system, good system, scheme or not it's absurd to be excited about the system. We're not tolerating that enthusiasm here. Oh and if anyone decides to backchat me remember This old chestnut? If you participate in other topics on this board, you'll soon note a mix of positive and negative reactions to just about anything. Often enough the positives will outweigh the negatives. That's usually when there's something to be positive about. In this case, there's been no good reason given to be positive other than obligation because "Atari," so it seems to make sense that reaction trends more to the negative, no? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 I'm an Atari fan. I just don't like lawyers, patent trolls, snake oil salesmen...And those who piss on their fans... 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 I find some of the posts in here about how brand loyalty is stupid very enlightening which is one of the reasons I love this place and am loyal to the AtariAge brand. AtariAge subscriber 4 Life! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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