RetroN 77

[Keatah]

Is the smell of a console really all that important? If it's bad enough just set it outside and fumigate the fucker.

[AW127]

Is the smell of a console really all that important? If it's bad enough just set it outside and fumigate the fucker.

When a "Retron 3" stands in a room overnight and in the next morning the whole room smells like a chemical-lab, then i think it`s that important.

[Flojomojo]

Is the smell of a console really all that important? If it's bad enough just set it outside and fumigate the fucker.

i can still remember the styrofoam packing from the old days if I close my eyes and think about it. Today's cardboard is smarter and less of a mess, but doesn't smell like anything.

 

Not having cartridges in boxes or bookstores in malls has been an adjustment, but I think I've assimilated to the present day well enough.

 

Anyone have thoughts about brick and mortar stores that might carry this Retron 77 wackiness?

[Mephitblue]

i can still remember the styrofoam packing from the old days if I close my eyes and think about it. Today's cardboard is smarter and less of a mess, but doesn't smell like anything.

 

Not having cartridges in boxes or bookstores in malls has been an adjustment, but I think I've assimilated to the present day well enough.

 

Anyone have thoughts about brick and mortar stores that might carry this Retron 77 wackiness?

 

I'm sure some retro game stores will carry it. I was at eStarland a couple weeks and they had most of the Retron models available for sale.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Yes, you can be lucky. Two question i have to the "Super Retro Trio", because i also thought about buying one. Would be great, if you could answer them.

 

When i am right, this console has a switch to set it in PAL- or in NTSC-mode, right? Does this work for all games of the three systems (Megadrive/NES/SNES), no matter if the game comes from a real game-module or as a rom from Everdrive/PowerPak/SD2SNES. I ask, because in a german retro-forum i read, that the "Super Retro Trio" should have some problems with some PAL SNES-games.

 

Second question. When the user set the "Super Retro Trio" in PAL-Mode, the games play exactly with 50FPS and the smaller screen (black borders up and down) and when the console is set to NTSC, it plays the games exactly with 60FPS and with bigger screen (without the borders). And this all works on normal modern TV`s right?

 

I read before, that the "Super Retro Trio" is as compatible as the "Retron 3" and that all SD-Card Modules should work and also nearly all SNES special-chip-games. And that the material is neutral in smelling is also good to know.

The region switch only affects the Genesis side of things unfortunately. It's basically the toggle switch mod that tricks stubborn games into thinking your console is Asian or PAL region. A lot of games don't care what region your console is. I have Psycho Pinball and Micro Machines 2 which were PAL exclusive. They play fine on my unmodded American Genesis. Other games will throw a warning message, and a handful of Japanese/American Megadrive games with "JU" dual region ROMs will load alternate graphics and text when the region switch is toggled.

 

Most all SNES clones AFAIK are 60Hz. Due to the popularity of "pass through" or "piggyback" import adapters in Europe which allowed American and Japanese games to run on PAL hardware (it have two slots - you load the donor cart for the lockout chip in one slot and the import game desired to be played in the other slot), Nintendo later twarted the efforts with a software region check to disable games from running. This does not prevent clipping the lockout tabs on North American hardware to run Super Famicom games as the Japanese and American hardware were both 60Hz and shared similar lockout chips.

[AW127]

The region switch only affects the Genesis side of things unfortunately. It's basically the toggle switch mod that tricks stubborn games into thinking your console is Asian or PAL region. A lot of games don't care what region your console is. I have Psycho Pinball and Micro Machines 2 which were PAL exclusive. They play fine on my unmodded American Genesis. Other games will throw a warning message, and a handful of Japanese/American Megadrive games with "JU" dual region ROMs will load alternate graphics and text when the region switch is toggled.

 

Most all SNES clones AFAIK are 60Hz. Due to the popularity of "pass through" or "piggyback" import adapters in Europe which allowed American and Japanese games to run on PAL hardware (it have two slots - you load the donor cart for the lockout chip in one slot and the import game desired to be played in the other slot), Nintendo later twarted the efforts with a software region check to disable games from running. This does not prevent clipping the lockout tabs on North American hardware to run Super Famicom games as the Japanese and American hardware were both 60Hz and shared similar lockout chips.

Okay, thanks for the clarification. Would have been superb, when the "Super Retro Trio" with it`s PAL/NTSC-switch would work like for example an original PAL-SNES with a switchless-mod. I mean, playing all PAL-games in 50FPS and all NTSC-games in 60FPS and beside that, also having the possibility to switch between the country mode. I didn`t knew, that the switch on the "Super Retro Trio" was only a region-switch and not a FPS-switch too. Having both would have been the best solution for the three-system-clone. But nevertheless, the "Super Retro Trio" is a very interesting clone. Maybe i will buy one in the future? Edited July 10, 2017 by AW127

[cybercylon]

Might be overkill, but the Retrofreak is supposed to be able to handle PAL and NTSC for the SNES. I assume the same applies to the Retron 5.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Okay, thanks for the clarification. Would have been superb, when the "Super Retro Trio" with it`s PAL/NTSC-switch would work like for example an original PAL-SNES with a switchless-mod. I mean, playing all PAL-games in 50FPS and all NTSC-games in 60FPS and beside that, also having the possibility to switch between the country mode. I didn`t knew, that the switch on the "Super Retro Trio" was only a region-switch and not a FPS-switch too. Having both would have been the best solution for the three-system-clone. But nevertheless, the "Super Retro Trio" is a very interesting clone. Maybe i will buy one in the future?

It's worth it and you can run all three Everdrives on it as well as the SMS Power Base Mini (have not tried the FM sound version but the standard converter works) for playing Master system games also works which is a testament to it's accuracy as a clone. NES may have minor audio issues and as well CVIII NES and Virtua Racing Genesis require modding. For the MMC5 trick you need an inverter but Virtua Racing only requires a jumper. Combined with the Super Game Boy and the Advance Game Port, you can add Game Boy Classic and Game Boy Advance to the compatible list. Throw in a Famicom adapter for FC games. Game Genies work as expected. About the only system you can run on the Retron5 that you can't on the Super Retro Trio is Game Boy Color games; everything else works with far less compatibility issues with SRT.

 

Some obscure NES games have the usual NOAC bugs such as Micro Machines, the aforementioned CVIII, and a few others. Many many games work on SRT that don't run on the Retron 5 it isn't funny. You still need an FPGA console or original NES/FC hardware to run Memblers GT-ROM though. One Genesis game (VC Racing) that doesn't work out of the box and all NTSC SNES games that I know of including SA-1 and Super FX games work flawlessly. If you have a good Svideo cable (the one that comes with the system is junk), you can see the chroma dithering in Sonic games which I rather kind of like, which would have required RGB cables on original hardware.

 

CRT television recommended.

 

One minor flaw with the SRT which may have been corrected in subsequent revisions, is the NES ports on some units may be unreliable. If this happens, switch to the SNES style Genesis controllers. Zapper was not affected on either of my units.

[yell0w_lantern]

It's worth it and you can run all three Everdrives on it as well as the SMS Power Base Mini (have not tried the FM sound version but the standard converter works) for playing Master system games also works which is a testament to it's accuracy as a clone. NES may have minor audio issues and as well CVIII NES and Virtua Racing Genesis require modding. For the MMC5 trick you need an inverter but Virtua Racing only requires a jumper. Combined with the Super Game Boy and the Advance Game Port, you can add Game Boy Classic and Game Boy Advance to the compatible list. Throw in a Famicom adapter for FC games. Game Genies work as expected. About the only system you can run on the Retron5 that you can't on the Super Retro Trio is Game Boy Color games; everything else works with far less compatibility issues with SRT.

 

Some obscure NES games have the usual NOAC bugs such as Micro Machines, the aforementioned CVIII, and a few others. Many many games work on SRT that don't run on the Retron 5 it isn't funny. You still need an FPGA console or original NES/FC hardware to run Memblers GT-ROM though. One Genesis game (VC Racing) that doesn't work out of the box and all NTSC SNES games that I know of including SA-1 and Super FX games work flawlessly. If you have a good Svideo cable (the one that comes with the system is junk), you can see the chroma dithering in Sonic games which I rather kind of like, which would have required RGB cables on original hardware.

 

CRT television recommended.

 

One minor flaw with the SRT which may have been corrected in subsequent revisions, is the NES ports on some units may be unreliable. If this happens, switch to the SNES style Genesis controllers. Zapper was not affected on either of my units.

With the Retro-Bit Super Retro Advance add-on, you can run Krikzz' Everdrive GBA X5 which can then emulate a NES, GB, GBC, Master System, and Game Gear.

 

Of course, you don't need the Power Base to run Master Sytem games on the Super Retro Trio if you have a Mega Everdrive and the SMS roms.

[Andromeda Stardust]

With the Retro-Bit Super Retro Advance add-on, you can run Krikzz' Everdrive GBA X5 which can then emulate a NES, GB, GBC, Master System, and Game Gear.

 

Of course, you don't need the Power Base to run Master Sytem games on the Super Retro Trio if you have a Mega Everdrive and the SMS roms.

I really don't care for running NES or SMS ROMs on the GBA Everdrive. It deletes every fourth line from every tile to squish the tiles into an 8x6 aspect ratio that will display properly onscreen, causing some sprites to look odd. This is essentially the same aspect the official Classic NES ROMs used but Nintendo hand tweaked the sprites in those ROMs to look normal when displayed as 8x6 tiles. The scaling on the Advance Retro Port is good but you're taking 240p games, shrinking them to 160p, then scaling them back to 240p. That's just bad physics IMO, and the normal Everdrive MD plays SMS games as well so it isn't needed.

 

So I might use the NES or SMS emulation on the GBA for portable use but I would never game on the big screen in this manner. And yes, adapters are needed for FC, SMS, GB, and GBA physical carts.

[maiki]

Retron is for people who do not care. People who use improper TVs. Real retro gamers use real consoles on real CRT TVs. Topic closed.

[Keatah]

Topic is still open. Because.. RetroN 77 will bring the joys of Atari gaming to thousands!

[AtariLeaf]

Retron is for people who do not care. People who use improper TVs. Real retro gamers use real consoles on real CRT TVs. Topic closed.

 

Not entirely true from my POV. I see things like the Retron, like emulation in general, as extensions of retro gaming, alternative ways of playing what I already own. My game room is small but something like this will allow bringing my cart collection into the living room to play with friends and family on a larger screen.

[yell0w_lantern]

It's been a couple of weeks but I tried out the NES & SMS emulation on the SRT with my Everdrive and I don't remember there being too much difference in the aspect ratio from the actual consoles. I'll have to double check.

[RevEng]

Retron is for people who do not care. People who use improper TVs. Real retro gamers use real consoles on real CRT TVs. Topic closed.

Real retro gamers only wear 70s style clothes and haircuts, to keep the experience authentic. Real retro gamers only discuss video games on a BBS over a 300 baud modem, and get mad when their parents pick up the phone and drop their connection. Topic closed.

[atarifan88]

 

Not entirely true from my POV. I see things like the Retron, like emulation in general, as extensions of retro gaming, alternative ways of playing what I already own. My game room is small but something like this will allow bringing my cart collection into the living room to play with friends and family on a larger screen.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. For me personally, I'm going for the experience and a better picture is a big part of that. Playing my Atari 2600 on my old 28" TV using an RF hookup just doesn't produce the results I am looking for today. Back then we didn't know any better because we didn't have a crystal clear picture like we get today with HD TV's. Not only that, but to be able to play on a big screen was always a childhood dream of mine. Now I get the best of both worlds! Why on God's earth would I want to go back?!

[tdp]

Retron is for people who do not care. People who use improper TVs. Real retro gamers use real consoles on real CRT TVs. Topic closed.

 

I think it's more like giving Shandy to someone who has never had Beer before. It helps to break them into Retro Atari gaming in a gentle manner. If they then decide if they want then go hardcore, with CRT screens, hunting for carts and stuff.

 

The Retron 77 has it's place, and to me, is a welcome product (as long as it supports my Harmony and Supercharger ).

[atarifan88]

 

The Retron 77 has it's place, and to me, is a welcome product (as long as it supports my Harmony and Supercharger ).

 

That will be the key if it supports the Harmony. Also, it needs to be able to handle the latest homebrew games like a real Atari 2600.

[AW127]

One thing wonders me, because KOSMIC STARDUST mentioned here, that some NES-Games have sound- and graphic-issues on the "Super Retro Trio". Same thing happens on the "Retron 3" with games like "Castlevania 3". I ask myself, where is the problem for the clone-producers to make their clones 100% compatible to games like "Castlevania 3"? They can do it for the most special-chip SNES-modules, but not for a game like "Castlevania 3". Anybody knows, what`s the problem with this NES-game to work like it should on a modern clone-console? Is it the mapper or has the game-module a special sound-chip inside or what?

Edited July 11, 2017 by AW127

[Keatah]

Real retro gamers only wear 70s style clothes and haircuts, to keep the experience authentic. Real retro gamers only discuss video games on a BBS over a 300 baud modem, and get mad when their parents pick up the phone and drop their connection. Topic closed.

 

Yup. I wear my quintessential 80's Casio 548 W-760 when playing classic games and doing it.

[cybercylon]

Some what off topic, but sense people went there.....

 

Setting aside using parts of emulators with out permission.... there is nothing wrong with using Retrons or a Retrofreak to play older games. They have their uses. Example... I want to play Lagrange Point with a fan made translation. It is easier just to put the cart in the system and have the fan made translation going on the fly. Maybe I can actually have a chance to play it upstairs, so it is easy just to take the small part without the cartridge ports upstairs. Also, it is an easy way to get a fix when I am traveling to family. I really don't want to lug a bunch of consoles on a road trip.

 

Some of us also do not have much room to work with. Generally, I game in a small area that just has enough room for two 24 inch monitors, and heck, one of those is at an angle. No CRT will fit, and even if it did, it is not suitable for the Wii U and the PS 4.

 

I generally use the clone system with NES and Famicom games. I haven't run into a toaster system that did not blink eventually, and I am not planning to seek out an AV Famicom. Modding them for RGB is expensive, and I do not have the skills. Sometimes I will use it for SNES and Genesis games if I really want to just cheat that day (usually when I am tired and just want to really goof off).

 

That doesn't mean I use a clone all of the time. For the consoles that I have which can output RGB with the right cables... Framemeister handles those.

 

As for why clones mess up the sound for something like Castlevania 3, I do not know why that can not be figured out. I assume emulator based consoles have the same problem, but sense I suck horribly at games like Castlevania, I don't have one to test it out.

 

(Maybe this is why I don't notice lag too much.... . I am not playing those kinds of games where it is apparent, and my own lag probably gets in the way...)

 

So back on topic, the Retron 77 will have it's place (unless it smells bad )

 

One question... why do emulators for the PC and the clone emulators have all of these filters you can apply.... tends to make things look worse to me.

[Keatah]

One question... why do emulators for the PC and the clone emulators have all of these filters you can apply.... tends to make things look worse to me.

 

They do indeed look worse in the majority of emulators. Developers do not understand the problem to the depth required to approach it from the correct angle.

 

Many are applying the wrong algorithms and not critically analyzing the results. You can't simply do a bi-linear filter and expect to get vintage CRT-like results. You cannot alternate the brightness of every other line to simulate scanlines. Well, yes you can, but then you get shitty results like you're complaining about. Overlaying a .png of a phosphor mask is like the lamest solution ever. Instead you need to simulate the physics behind how light is generated and behaves in a CRT. This includes things like emissivity, blooming, mixing, bleeding, smearing, glow, and more. No emulator to date does this.

 

There are a few libraries/emulators that have taken steps in the right direction, but they're still small experiments in post-processing effects. We're at least another 5 years out from doing it right. Assuming there is interest in working on the problem.

 

First now, there is a push in improving: color accuracy, single-bit artifacting, game logic, chip-level behavior and compatibility, and lag. Hopefully proper CRT simulation will get the same treatment in good time.

[up2knowgood]

One question... why do emulators for the PC and the clone emulators have all of these filters you can apply.... tends to make things look worse to me.

 

 

No idea, I hate emulators, I have no luck with those things. Mangle the sound, screw with the graphics, glitch all to hell, and take forever to download. Full disclosure, I have no idea why they're so popular, especially since most of the games and systems they emulate aren't exactly hard to get, all they give me is headaches.

[Keatah]

No idea, I hate emulators, I have no luck with those things. Mangle the sound, screw with the graphics, glitch all to hell, and take forever to download. Full disclosure, I have no idea why they're so popular, especially since most of the games and systems they emulate aren't exactly hard to get, all they give me is headaches.

 

Emulators are totally awesome when you get them set up just right. Their convenience and reliability are simply amazing.

 

I've been playing with them since the early 1990's, so it's become easy to spot issues and know how to solve them. As easy as a real-hardware-based gamer cleaning contacts or replacing a balky switch.

 

Things like RetroN 77 or the Atari Flashbacks do nothing more than manhandle and force an emulator into compliance and present it to the public in a spiffy box.

 

An emulator + SoC is incredibly versatile and cheap when it comes to modern production and how business is done today. Many magnitudes of order more so than the original chipset could ever hope to be.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Keatah

[Andromeda Stardust]

It's been a couple of weeks but I tried out the NES & SMS emulation on the SRT with my Everdrive and I don't remember there being too much difference in the aspect ratio from the actual consoles. I'll have to double check.

Use the NES and Everdrive MD if you're going to do that. GBA Everdrive will royally mess up the sprite scaling. NES and SMS games really look wrong when played on it.