Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 In your opinion, how much do you think would be a far donation from this kid that designed it that Dr Manhattan brought up? I can see different options: the company donates based on the sales, e.g. $1 per sale the developer donates once whatever he thinks is fair, which depends on the profit he makes (monetary and job related) the customers donate whatever they think is fair (this option has to be mentioned in the Retron 77 manual then, else it won't happen) Or any combination of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Atari_Warlord Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Engadget has a brief blog post up and they mention a $80 price point and Christmas release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schizophretard Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I can see different options: the company donates based on the sales, e.g. $1 per sale the developer donates once whatever he thinks is fair, which depends on the profit he makes (monetary and job related) the customers donate whatever they think is fair (this option has to be mentioned in the Retron 77 manual then, else it won't happen) Or any combination of those. I think with #3 mentioning it in the manual may help but it seems like most of the target market would already know about Stella. It running on Stella may even be a selling point for most. It lacking is one of the reasons I avoid the Flashbacks because I don't see the point of duplication of effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_79 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) I don't really care about 1080p myself with old video games, I just don't see the point. It is more important though IMO on newer consoles with better graphics but I mean there really isn't much detail in an Atari 2600 that gives the need for 1080p. I just don't get it. If the console is priced nice it might be a nice source for accessories though. EDIT: What I'm getting at is this. If the console itself is incapable of displaying a graphic image in 1080p with full colors and detail then there is no point in displaying 1080p. The Atari 2600 cannot do that, so you really wouldn't notice any difference if it were 720p or 1080p. The only advantage I guess would be that the picture is digital and you get rid of any ghosting or other similar problems with composite or RF. But I swear if they were to announce a 4k Atari 2600 people would go crazy over it, but just like I mentioned before you would notice no difference between it either and 720p via HDMI. I disagree here. There are very good reasons to use high resolution output: The scalers inside TVs are of variable quality, some introduce too much lag, some doesn't recognize correctly the non-interlaced signal (which isn't part of any official TV standard) of the old consoles and treats it as interlaced. This causes artifacts in moving objects and whenever flickering is used, and generally degrades the picture because it applies a deinterlacing filter. The TV scalers are usually not designed taking old consoles into consideration. Another advantage of using an HI res image is that you can add filters to simulate CRT displays (scanlines, shadow mask/aperture grille, phosphor glow, etc), that for many retrogamers are an important part of the experience, and in fact at least some of them are included in all emulators and some external upscalers specifically designed for old consoles. I have a PC outputting 1080p and running Stella connected to a big LCD TV, and I have the TV effects enabled in the emulator. It looks great and I really enjoy playing it, (altough I still prefer real hardware plus CRT). On the other end, I would never play it without the TV effects enabled. By increasing the resolution, these effects get more realistic, so if the console would output a 4k image, it would be even better. Regarding the RetroN 77: The console looks cool, but the lack of difficulty and tv-type switch is a major flaw, IMO. I'm also very skeptical about the fact that it's based on Stella emulator and it's compatible with the Harmony cart. I tend to believe that it's either one or the other. I would really like to see a picture (or a video) of it selecting a game in the Harmony menu and playing it. Or running a Supercharger or a Compumate. Oh, and I hope they correct the cart port orientation in the final product... Edited June 14, 2017 by alex_79 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 The console looks cool, but the lack of difficulty and tv-type switch is a major flaw, IMO.It depends how this is solved with an onscreen menu (e.g. how good is the menu navigation, how many clicks are required, does the game continue or pause in between...?). Though I agree that dedicated switches are always better. I'm also very skeptical about the fact that it's based on Stella emulator and it's compatible with the Harmony cart. I tend to believe that it's either one or the other. I would really like to see a picture (or a video) of it selecting a game in the Harmony menu and playing it. Maybe its only meant to be compatible for games flashed in developer mode? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_79 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Maybe its only meant to be compatible for games flashed in developer mode? That's more plausible, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) The main purpose of 1080p is to output a signal that is native and compatible with today's display technology. Just look through the forums to see people having all sorts of strange and weird issues trying to get an original VCS working on the TV set they just purchased from bigbox. Edited June 14, 2017 by Keatah 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_79 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) The main purpose of 1080p is to output a signal that is native and compatible with today's display technology. That's not necessary. HDMI can output digital standard definition signals and then let the TV upscale it. It's part of the specs and fully compatible with any modern TV. There are even 240p 60Hz and 288p 50 Hz resolutions in the hdmi standard (altought support for those is not a requirement, so better not use that as the only output option). Edited June 14, 2017 by alex_79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 That's not necessary. HDMI can output digital standard definition signals and then let the TV upscale it. It's part of the specs and fully compatible with any modern TV.Yes, but those upscalers vary in quality and lag. With a native signal they might be circumvented (not sure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_79 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) I agree. My last comment was about compatibility with modern set. Using HDMI digital conenction with one of the supported resolution is the requirement for that. Edited June 14, 2017 by alex_79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_79 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Maybe its only meant to be compatible for games flashed in developer mode?That's more plausible, I think. Thinking more about it, if the console is using Stella emulator and the cartridge port is only a cart dumper, it might work with games flashed in developer mode only if they don't use the ARM. This also would apply to melody based games. I don't think you can read the arm code off of the cartridge with a dumper. Or is it possible? Edited June 14, 2017 by alex_79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron's Reviews Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I think this looks very interesting indeed! I've been wanting a console from Hyperkin that plays Atari 2600 for a few years now and as such, am quite excited about this! However, I'm surprised they didn't go for a multi-console. They could have had one that played Atari 7800 too and maybe even systems like Atari 5200, Colecovision and Intellevision. I'm not sure how easy that would have been to techincally make happen but it's a nice idea, I think. That said, as others have said, this is a step in the right direction and I want to hear more about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Even at $80, it still seems like a good deal, although I would certainly prefer wireless joysticks (still waiting for someone to make an Atari/Sega-style wireless dongle like there is for NES, SNES, Apple II, etc.). Hopefully they do right by the people who work on Stella, but I somehow doubt it based on what happened with the stuff in RetroN 5 and Retro Freak. My assumption is that this is Android-like hardware running the Android version of Stella. As long as the core hardware is powerful enough (as shown by both RetroN 5 and Retro Freak), there should be no noticeable lag (of course some people always notice lag over HDMI, but I'm not counting those people). In any case, that's probably why the reported price of $80 is more accurate than $40. It's a hard target to hit a $40 price point with that kind of hardware inside (especially since they're claiming 1080p output and not the usual 720p for a device like this, which is usually what's used to conserve processing cycles). Edited June 14, 2017 by Bill Loguidice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Hopefully they do right by the people who work on Stella, but I somehow doubt it based on what happened with the stuff in RetroN 5 and Retro Freak.I am not aware of that. Do you have any links? My assumption is that this is Android-like hardware running the Android version of Stella. As long as the core hardware is powerful enough (as shown by both RetroN 5 and Retro Freak), there should be no noticeable lagDo you have any information about that hardware? Stella emulation has been greatly improved with version 5.0 (soon to be released), but at the cost of requiring more CPU resources. Also emulating an ARM running at 70 MHz for existing and coming the ARM based Atari 2600 games, will require extra CPU power. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I am not aware of that. Do you have any links? Do you have any information about that hardware? Stella emulation has been greatly improved with version 5.0 (soon to be released), but at the cost of requiring more CPU resources. Also emulating an ARM running at 70 MHz for existing and coming the ARM based Atari 2600 games, will require extra CPU power. There was a brouhaha about the RetroN 5 (and, by extension, Retro Freak), using open source emulators without attribution. I didn't get too involved in the details. I have zero info about the RetroN 77. I was just speculating based on how all the other hardware in the category (that's not a system-on-a-chip) works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Engadget has a brief blog post up and they mention a $80 price point and Christmas release.Engadget is often wrong ... spectacularly so last year with the "Chameleon" https://www.engadget.com/2016/02/18/coleco-chameleon-atari-2600/ I certainly hope so in this case. $80 is DOA, but $40 or $50 is a no-brained pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Engadget is often wrong ... spectacularly so last year with the "Chameleon" https://www.engadget.com/2016/02/18/coleco-chameleon-atari-2600/ I certainly hope so in this case. $80 is DOA, but $40 or $50 is a no-brained pickup. $40 is killer, but I don't think $80 is too bad. Again, I'm considering the horsepower needed under the hood to run an Android-like system at 1080p. That's not cheap in the quantities Hyperkin would be producing these in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 There was a brouhaha about the RetroN 5 (and, by extension, Retro Freak), using open source emulators without attribution. I think I found it. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 $40 is killer, but I don't think $80 is too bad. Again, I'm considering the horsepower needed under the hood to run an Android-like system at 1080p. That's not cheap in the quantities Hyperkin would be producing these in.I think $80 is killer for the Atari Flashback Gold with HDMI, 130 games, wireless controls, vintage style wired paddles. Android with HDMI out doesn't strike me as amazing or expensive tech, not with the potato tablets one can buy for that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 My prediction is that the unit will be offered less than $80 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S1500 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 My prediction is that this thread will have an infinite number of replies, half of them being silly pictures & YouTube videos. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Engadget is often wrong ... spectacularly so last year with the "Chameleon" https://www.engadget.com/2016/02/18/coleco-chameleon-atari-2600/ I certainly hope so in this case. $80 is DOA, but $40 or $50 is a no-brained pickup. I just read that this morning 80 bucks isn't bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILLYonaire Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Does it play PAL cartridges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 My prediction is that the unit will be offered less than $80 I agree. I hope it will be easy to find in Canada! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I'm glad to hear the hardware is still early. They really need to turn the cartridge port around. I can live with everything else. If they made it look like a Junior but with woodgrain, that would be neat as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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