+DrVenkman Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Have you tried a different USB cable? It is what worked for me. That cable is now a permanent resident at my test station. Well, my SIO2USB-PC device has used the same cable for years. I used it just the other day with my 1200XL. I can try another cable tomorrow just for giggles. For what it's worth, I did run into a bad microUSB cable the other night when I was updating the U1MB through the Sparkfun interface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 yeah some these use cables are resistive or not shielded or wired wrong or just plain wore out... we can hope that it turns out be the cable and wish for the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Simple things to try when diagnosing the legacy SIO... New cable as you mentioned. Swap left and right channel Pokey chips in case one is flakey (kinda doubt this, since I believe you said your SIO2PC via the SparkFun board is working). Ohm out SIO plug over to the 100 ohm resistor network, looking at both the input and output side of the network to confirm a) that it's connected, and b) that it makes it through - check all the way back to the Pokey and the PIA (also check for shorts between pins). BTW, all my soldering tips were meant to be constructive for anyone utilizing this topic and building a board. Since I don't know anyone's individual skill level I have to assume the lowest common denominator. Or in other words, someone that doesn't have much experience. Good luck . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Simple things to try when diagnosing the legacy SIO... New cable as you mentioned. Swap left and right channel Pokey chips in case one is flakey (kinda doubt this, since I believe you said your SIO2PC via the SparkFun board is working). Ohm out SIO plug over to the 100 ohm resistor network, looking at both the input and output side of the network to confirm a) that it's connected, and b) that it makes it through - check all the way back to the Pokey and the PIA Thanks Michael. I'm pretty sure left POKEY is generally good since the Sparkfun board works great and the PS/2 keyboard interface is solid. And I've got basic mono audio (I hear keyclicks in BASIC and game audio from my JOUST cartridge) so sound is more or less working okay at least. After pulling up the schematic tonight, I'm betting the issue is/was somewhere around the RN1 resistor network. It was one of the first components I'd soldered into the board and I haven't yet gotten around to reflowing those joints. I'll do some continuity checks out to the SIO pins and work from there. Thanks again. I'm just glad my board (mostly/sorta/almost) works. It's been an adventure so far and - believe it or not! - I've loved every minute of it. I'm already considering building out my second PCB later this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Hey Jon if you read this - why does the BIOS say my system is a 50fps NTSC system rather than 60? On the NTSC 50 fps thing, I thought that got fixed many moons ago. It was fixed long before the most recent complete firmware build I uploaded to the Beta PM thread (12th Jan?), and Herb is using a much older main BIOS revision (1.37E as opposed to 1.37G). I uploaded lots of changes to the loader since then, anyway, so here's the latest complete firmware: 1088XEL_U1MB_Firmware_beta_270118.atr Regarding F12: I noticed all that strangeness when I was testing your repaired (partially, as it turned out) U1MB the other day. With the stock U1MB BIOS on the board, F12 didn't seem to work at all. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Thanks, Jon! All updated smoothly this morning. And man, the HSIO sure makes life grand. My 1200XL usually has to run at POKEY divisor 1 - this thing is flying through the Sparkfun board. So here are the errors I get with my SIO2USB-PC device using plain old standard 19.2kpbs SIO speeds. Tried two or three different cables with the same result, then verified on my 1200XL that the device itself is working fine. Anyone familiar enough with SIO errors to point me at which pins to start tracing first? Ill eventually check them all of course. Ill be working on this machine after errands and lunch with MrsVenkman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Okay, SIO experts out there, here's a head-scratcher. I reflowed solder at both RN1 and RN2, then per the schematics verified continuity all the way from the SIO jack pins to the appropriate pins at RN2. I tried my SIO2PC-USB device again and still it failed. However it occurs to me that it could because my device (one of Ray's first combo SIO2PC/10502PC devices) is made with an FTDI chip that does NOT contain the necessary diode to let it coexist with other drives, and even with the Sparkfun board not connected but still powered, maybe it was causing some kind of issue. In other words, maybe my device just won't work with the 1088XEL. So I dug out one of my 1050's. Huh, whaddaya know? So this is good. Now here's the head-scratcher part - as soon as I connect the Sparkfun board to my PC, my 1050 stops responding. And, probably not coincidentally, RespeQt can't "talk" to the 1088XEL either. Now, I watched Michaels's video the other day and I know they *should* work together, right? Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentarian Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Do you happen to have the same drive # for the 1050 and Sparkfun SIO2PC? I know this is obvious -- but I'm guilty of making that mistake before. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Do you happen to have the same drive # for the 1050 and Sparkfun SIO2PC? I know this is obvious -- but I'm guilty of making that mistake before. My 1050 was set to Drive 1, but in RespeQt, I had that drive slot empty (no .ATR mounted). There's no way that I know of to turn a drive "off" in RespeQt. I didn't think to change the drive select on my 1050 and see if it worked with RespeQt. I also just watched Michael's video again. I thought he had tested with a disk in a virtual drive as well as a 1050 but I mis-remembered; he only used a floppy. And in that case, maybe I'm working just fine? In fact, my Happy-enabled drive loaded SpartaDOS 3.2g at Warp speed (3X) just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I was copying files from the CF card via the XEL-CF MPBI board to the 1050. To tell you the truth I've never tried using the SIO2PC aspect through RespeQt at the same time as a real floppy drive. Although I would have thought someone in our BETA Test Group would have and mentioned having a problem with doing so, and/or a solution if they did. Since the SparkFun board doesn't interfere with the legacy SIO when RespeQt is not loaded, it suggests that there should be a means to keep it from interfering when active, such as using different drive assignments, or something??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I was copying files from the CF card via the XEL-CF MPBI board to the 1050. To tell you the truth I've never tried using the SIO2PC aspect through RespeQt at the same time as a real floppy drive. Although I would have thought someone in our BETA Test Group would have and mentioned having a problem with doing so, and/or a solution if they did. Since the SparkFun board doesn't interfere with the legacy SIO when RespeQt is not loaded, it suggests that there should be a means to keep it from interfering when active, such as using different drive assignments, or something??? Yes, I would think so too. Well, in any case, thanks for the tips earlier about where to go about testing SIO signal paths. I'll experiment further using the trial version of APE and also changing the Drive Select assignment on the 1050 I'm using for testing. But for the nonce, I think I shall retire from the field of battle. Well, until I build some joystick cables ... I have some SOB's riding ostriches to vanquish. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Okay, SIO experts out there, here's a head-scratcher. I reflowed solder at both RN1 and RN2, then per the schematics verified continuity all the way from the SIO jack pins to the appropriate pins at RN2. I tried my SIO2PC-USB device again and still it failed. However it occurs to me that it could because my device (one of Ray's first combo SIO2PC/10502PC devices) is made with an FTDI chip that does NOT contain the necessary diode to let it coexist with other drives, and even with the Sparkfun board not connected but still powered, maybe it was causing some kind of issue. In other words, maybe my device just won't work with the 1088XEL. So I dug out one of my 1050's. Huh, whaddaya know? IMG_9657.JPG IMG_9658.JPG So this is good. Now here's the head-scratcher part - as soon as I connect the Sparkfun board to my PC, my 1050 stops responding. And, probably not coincidentally, RespeQt can't "talk" to the 1088XEL either. Now, I watched Michaels's video the other day and I know they *should* work together, right? Any ideas? If you had a 'Proper' SIO2PC device, this would not have been an issue (as Doc said). Inferior person, inferior product... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 If you had a 'Proper' SIO2PC device, this would not have been an issue (as Doc said). Inferior person, inferior product... I understand there's an urge to shit on Ray and everything he had to do with. I am aware the history and personal ugliness that fell out. The guy clearly has or had some issues that got him banned here. However, his device works flawlessly with my U1MB-equipped 1200XL connected to every box I've ever tried it with: a MacBook Pro, my Alienware gaming laptop, a Raspberry Pi 2 and currently a teeny little RPi Zero W, even up to POKEY divisor 0. It just doesn't work with other SIO drives on the bus. I has worked similarly with every Atari I've tried it on, including everything from a couple 800XL's, an 800 or two, and even both my 400's (one upgraded to 48K, one a stock 16K). It even works connected directly to a 1050 to link to computers running APE ProSystem to image the floppies I found from my teenaged years in the 80's. So yeah, he's an asshole but his product is fine within its limits. But in any case, and more to my point above, your comment ignores the second part of my post, quoted below, which is pretty much what I care about the most: Now here's the head-scratcher part - as soon as I connect the Sparkfun board to my PC, my 1050 stops responding. And, probably not coincidentally, RespeQt can't "talk" to the 1088XEL either. Now, I watched Michaels's video the other day and I know they *should* work together, right? Any ideas? Ray's device was unplugged from the machine, replaced by a Happy-enhanced 1050 for this test. As soon as I connected the Sparkfun board to my PC, my 1050 stopped responding. I will be testing more tomorrow. I'm going to set the 1050 to Drive 2, with RespeQt on my PC as well as the trial version of APE. I'm happy to hear any suggestions for further testing, but please, just constructive comments. No need to rehash the past. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Different runs of the sparkfun board may have used different components, was there a diode fix for ray's device and by extension could that be applied to a misbehaving sparkfun board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 who's device? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) lol yeah your right it's not his device, it's his version or rendition of another persons device... Edited January 28, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevymad Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 You all had me scared with the wrecking U1MB's.. Removed the angled pins tonight. Had no troubles! Getting pretty far with my board now too 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 You all had me scared with the wrecking U1MB's.. Removed the angled pins tonight. Had no troubles! Getting pretty far with my board now too Great job on that U1MB! Very clean removal of angled pins. As I'm sure you have read to this point just make sure you have solid solder joints as that has been the only hiccup with getting a solid first boot up. Your board looks great! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 DrV I've been messing around a bit with my real 1050's connected up with the 1088XEL. First thing I learned once enabling the PBI BIOS that the drives initially enabled under SIO and CIO Drivers D1-D4 are assigned to the real 1050's. While using RespeQT that any attempt to use any drive D1-D4 would earn me a "[Disk X] command: $48, aux: $0020 NAKed." [x5], and from SDX a "140 SIO framing error". So, as setup under U1MB, D1-D4 are unusable for RespeQT and reserved for real drives. I have a 1050 US Doubler assigned as D4 and it has performed great so far. I'm far from an expert, and I'm still learning more about U1MB bios, SDX, and RespeQT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) So, as setup under U1MB, D1-D4 are unusable for RespeQT and reserved for real drives. Erm... no. I have the PBI High-Speed driver enabled for all SIO drives ('Disks and PCLink') and use virtual drives and disk images mounted with RespeQt with no problems at all. If this didn't work, there'd be no 1088XEL BIOS, since I'd never have been able to update the firmware on the board during development. SIO drivers don't care (or even know) whether there's an ATR or real 1050 at the other end of the cable, so if there are problems with RespeQt, check the speed settings on the server, drive ID conflicts, etc. One thing to be aware of: 'SIO Devices' represents the 'scope' of the PBI driver (first four drives, all drives and PCLink, or everything on the bus), while the 'SIO driver Dx:' toggles are intended to enable exceptions on the first four drives. So, you could enable HSIO on all drives (SIO Devices: All) except D1: if you wanted to (SIO driver D1: Disabled, all other: Enabled). If the four individual drives are disabled, the driver won't touch them regardless of the other settings. Edited January 28, 2018 by flashjazzcat 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 FJC I was just commenting on what I was experiencing with the settings that I had verses attempting to use a real drive assigned to same drive as RespeQT, beyond that I cannot explain the conflict error I'm receiving. Trust me I'm not an expert, and I do not want to give anyone reading that I'm implying that there are any limitations to the software to hardware. The only limitation at the moment is my complete knowledge of how everything is communicating, but once I do then watch out;-) Below is some of the errors I was receiving trying to access drives from RespeQT from SpartaDOS X 4.49b on 1088XEL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 No worries. I'd need to see the settings at the RespeQt end and on the SIO and CIO Drivers page of the BIOS menu before I could speculate on what's happening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Below is some of the errors I was receiving trying to access drives from RespeQT from SpartaDOS X 4.49b on 1088XEL. DOSerrorsSIO.jpg That's exactly what I was seeing when trying to use one of my 1050's and the built-in Sparkfun board together (for, for example, copying things from an ATR to a physical disk or vice versa). Either of them alone works gangbusters but I can't use them together as I have things configured so far. Right now my Happy-enabled drive is set as D1: and it even boots in high speed with HSIO enabled in the U1MB and using a SpartaDOS 3.2g boot disk. Those errors are also what I was seeing trying to use my SIO2PC-USB device through the SIO port, with nothing whatsoever connected to the Sparkfun board. Well, I'll be experimenting further today with my drive set to D2: - D4: and various U1MB settings to see if I can make RespeQt and real drives work with the 1088XEL at the same time. I will probably also try APE just to see how that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) In case there was an issue, I just tested an XF551 here (I have no working 1050s, unfortunately) on D1: with a RespeQt virtual drive on D2: under SDX with no problems. Since I don't have the Sparkfun FTDI adapter connected to the 1088XEL yet, I plugged the home-built SIO2PC into the second SIO port on the XF drive. It's a generic FTDI board housed inside an SIO connector. 1088XEL is configured NTSC, RespeQt back end is set up like this: U1MB BIOS: The latest firmware fixes a single bug exposed in turn by a bug in the MegaSpeedy firmware last year: namely failure to fall back to standard speed after a failed transfer. If I've introduced any new bugs while streamlining the code, I'd really like to hear of any reproducible issues so I can get them fixed. I'm sitting here basically waiting to release the finalised binaries. Edited January 28, 2018 by flashjazzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 In case there was an issue, I just tested an XF551 here (I have no working 1050s, unfortunately) on D1: with a RespeQt virtual drive on D2: under SDX with no problems. Since I don't have the Sparkfun FTDI adapter connected to the 1088XEL yet, I plugged the home-built SIO2PC into the second SIO port on the XF drive. It's a generic FTDI board housed inside an SIO connector. I'm really curious to know how that will work once you've got the Sparkfun board connected. I ran a few experiments this morning and got basically the same results as I had last night and the other day. With a real drive connected as well as the Sparkfun board, nada, even without RespeQt or any other SIO emulation software running on the PC. Just having a USB cable running between the two was enough to disable physical floppy disk access. Unplug the USB cable from the PC and voila - physical drive access works again. I tried my Happy drive as both D1: and D2: with no change, ensuring I had no disk images in the corresponding slots in RespeQt. I realized I'd "lost" my APE trial installation back in December when I had to reinstall Win10, so I downloaded it again today. But when I tried to run it, it gave me some guff about needing an APE-signed driver or something. Bah. So scratch that for now. But in any case, physical drive access works fine for me so long as I don't have a USB cable plugged into both the modern computer and the Sparkfun board. If I do, no dice. However, in better news, I enabled stereo POKEY for the first time today and tried the NTSC version of YOOMP! and it sounded GREAT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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