1088XEL Atari ITX Motherboard DIY Builders Thread

[CJ Atari]

On 5/19/2024 at 4:46 PM, CJ Atari said:

I was about to program the PIC12F1571 and PIC16F1847 when I realized the chip is not appearing is Xgpro's list for either of the two programmers I have.  Is the a equivalent chip that I can specify in my Xgpro OR do I need to use the in circuit approach?  Or perhaps a different programmer? Thanks!

Having a go with PICKIT5.  We'll see how it goes...

 

[Jfcatari]

@CJ Atari

 

This might be a easier option:

 

https://ataribits.weebly.com/joy2pic.html

 

I used the JOY-2-PIC for programming the PIC chips on my Atari NUC.

 

 

[+mytek]

5 hours ago, Jfcatari said:

This might be a easier option:

 

https://ataribits.weebly.com/joy2pic.html

 

I used the JOY-2-PIC for programming the PIC chips on my Atari NUC.

Yep I was about to suggest that (thanks).

 

There are two versions, one with a ZIF programming socket and ICSP header, and the other with only the ICSP header, Since something like the 576NUC+ only has an ICSP header for the PIC16F1847 (TK-II) and not the PIC12F1572 (VGATE) I would suggest getting the one with the ZIF socket.

 

You can get an assembled and tested version from TBA for $35 if you don't want to go the DIY route. And they also have a complete kit with all the parts that you can assemble for $25.

 

Programming PICs with the JOY2PIC-STIK is super easy, and requires no software installation, or drivers. The way it works is you plug it into joystick #1 on any Atari 8-bit, insert the chip you wish to program or connect to the target board's ICSP, and then run the appropriate flashing XEX or ATR to flash the chip.

[CJ Atari]

5 hours ago, mytek said:

Yep I was about to suggest that (thanks).

 

There are two versions, one with a ZIF programming socket and ICSP header, and the other with only the ICSP header, Since something like the 576NUC+ only has an ICSP header for the PIC16F1847 (TK-II) and not the PIC12F1572 (VGATE) I would suggest getting the one with the ZIF socket.

 

You can get an assembled and tested version from TBA for $35 if you don't want to go the DIY route. And they also have a complete kit with all the parts that you can assemble for $25.

 

Programming PICs with the JOY2PIC-STIK is super easy, and requires no software installation, or drivers. The way it works is you plug it into joystick #1 on any Atari 8-bit, insert the chip you wish to program or connect to the target board's ICSP, and then run the appropriate flashing XEX or ATR to flash the chip.

Thank you both - I'll have a go.  So many of us are grateful for all the work done on the Atari 8-bits. 

[+mytek]

6 hours ago, CJ Atari said:

Thank you both - I'll have a go.  So many of us are grateful for all the work done on the Atari 8-bits. 

You are very welcome, and thanks for the acknowledgement. Some of these projects were very complicated to execute, but as they came together and worked as planned, I got a lot of joy out of doing it.

 

Here's a link to all the programming files for the 576NUC+ available on my website: https://ataribits.weebly.com/uploads/5/8/8/6/58865739/576nuc_flash_02-18-22.zip

 

Inside that zipped file you will find a folder called PIC Flashing. And inside that is an ATR file that just needs to be run from a multi-cart or an SIO2PC-USB adapter on a PC. It'll bring up a menu of sorts that gives you the following 3 choices. These are the JOY2PIC flashing files.

 

 

TKPWR_ON.COM = a test file for troubleshooting if the NUC doesn't respond properly to one of the power-up commands from the PS/2 keyboard (ALT+~, 1, 2, 3,4). Often times on a new build something is not right (missed solder joint, wrong or backwards component, ect.) and you might find that the system either won't power-up or if it does, it won't stay on. In that case flash this file via the JOY2PIC to the on board TK-II chip (PIC16F1847) and it will force power to stay on after sending a power-up command. This will allow you to troubleshoot the board under power (check solder joints, check crystal oscillator functionality, ect.).

 

TKNUCV20.COM = this is the proper TK-II firmware for standard operation of the NUC.

 

VGNUCV14.COM = this is the VGATE firmware for the PIC12F1572 chip.

 

EDIT: Opps! I posted info for the wrong system. This is the proper download link for the flashing files: https://ataribits.weebly.com/uploads/5/8/8/6/58865739/xelflash_4-24-2021.zip

However that's from an earlier time, so the zipped file is packaged a bit differently with each particular PIC Flasher having its own ATR.

 

Also I need to update the TK-II file in that 1088XEL zip to the latest TK-II version, so use this link to pick up the current version for that device: TK-II V2.7J Firmware

[Panther]

LOL...I was about to point out that he was talking about the 1088XEL, but then I finished reading your post while looking for the correct link.

[The WABBIT]

@mytek I just got to say I followed your designing of 1088XEL from original concept to final. And briefly watched you initial designing of the 1088XLD. Didn't know about the 576NUC until about a few weeks ago. Since you starting designing the XEL I've wanted to build it myself. But, until this month I was not able to start the process to get the various parts needed. But, with all projects like this one that uses older electronic parts. I have found that several of the part's listed in the BOM are either no longer available from the seller listed or has become obsolete. In most of these cases I was able to find the exact part from other sources, like Jameco Electronics, Mouser Electronics, etc. And one specific part, the Stacked R/A Mini DIN-4 & RCA jack, very hard to locate. But, I did stumble upon a seller on eBay selling them in QTY(100) for $27 + shipping. I don't know if the seller is actually selling the jack in lots of 100 or not. But, I ordered one and I'll find out on Friday if I received just 1 or 100.

 

But, I have found three parts that can now obsolete and I can't seem to find. So, could you possibly give some recommendation's for any substitute for these parts:

 

Part Type: Capacitor

Part Location: C1

Manufacturer: Rubycon

Manufacturer Part #:10ML330MEFC8X7.5

Desc: CAP ALUM 330UF 20% 10V RADIAL

 

Part Type: Semiconductors

Part Location: Q1

Manufacturer: onsemi

Manufacturere Part #: NDP6020P

Desc: MOSFET P-CH 20V 24A TO220-3

 

Part Type: Resistor (Potentiometer)

Part Location: R41

Manufacturer: Bourns Inc.

Manufacturer Part #: 3319P-1-504

Desc: TRIMMER 500K OHM 0.2W PC PIN TOP

 

When looking up the Trimmer POT, Digi-Key did give a suggestion of a similar part. But, I would like your opinion of it. And although I see listings on eBay for the MOSFET. The sellers are based in China and I would really not have to deal with such sellers. So, could you please recommend a substitute for the above parts?

 

 

Also, I have a question about the programming of the 3 PIC chips. Actually about programming one of them. I don't have an Atari 8-bit system, haven't had one since 1994. So, if I was to build the XEL would it be possible to create a boot disk that would automatically execute the flash program to flash the TK-II PIC. And then boot from said floppy on the XEL to flash that PIC with the Joy-2-PIC?

Or is it not possible because the system will not boot because it can't find a keyboard? Or the Flasher requires keyboard input after it is loaded?

 

 

Thanks for the new design.

 

[+mytek]

6 hours ago, The WABBIT said:

But, I have found three parts that can now obsolete and I can't seem to find. So, could you possibly give some recommendation's for any substitute for these parts:

I couldn't come up with a substitute any faster than anyone else, because I'd also have to do the research and search. The Stacked R/A Mini DIN-4 & RCA jack was obsolete even back when I first developed the XEL, but it really was the best choice to fit the application. Have you checked with TBA to see if they have stock and/or will sell you just one?

 

Perhaps other builders can chime in and make suggestions for alternative parts.

 

6 hours ago, The WABBIT said:

Also, I have a question about the programming of the 3 PIC chips. Actually about programming one of them. I don't have an Atari 8-bit system, haven't had one since 1994. So, if I was to build the XEL would it be possible to create a boot disk that would automatically execute the flash program to flash the TK-II PIC. And then boot from said floppy on the XEL to flash that PIC with the Joy-2-PIC?

Or is it not possible because the system will not boot because it can't find a keyboard? Or the Flasher requires keyboard input after it is loaded?

Since the keyboard is responsible for turning the system ON you'd have to bypass that manually by perhaps leaving out the power MOSFET and temporarily jumper across it to power-up the system. Then perhaps a special boot disk could be made that autoruns the PIC Flashing file, via a real floppy drive or SIO2PC. And you would of course need a JOY2PIC connected between joystick #1 and the ICSP PGM header. I've never tried something like this myself, but on the surface it seems like it could work.

 

6 hours ago, The WABBIT said:

Thanks for the new design.

Thanks for the acknowledgement

[larryleffaovell]

Those stacked Mini DIN-4 & RCA jack are still available at AliExpress: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005003107053657.html Got mine from there, but from another seller. Anyway, there were the exact thing and are working. At this price you can't make any big mistakes.

[The WABBIT]

9 hours ago, mytek said:

I couldn't come up with a substitute any faster than anyone else, because I'd also have to do the research and search.

 

9 hours ago, mytek said:

Perhaps other builders can chime in and make suggestions for alternative parts.

That is okay, I understand that you, or someone else, would have to do some research to find a suitable alternative, if at all. I do not know enough about certain electrical parts, such as these, to be able to find suitable alternatives for the circuits that you have designed.

 

But, I do hope that someone is able to come up with a suitable alternative. Because, I would like this project to continue for as long as possible.

9 hours ago, mytek said:

The Stacked R/A Mini DIN-4 & RCA jack was obsolete even back when I first developed the XEL, but it really was the best choice to fit the application. Have you checked with TBA to see if they have stock and/or will sell you just one?

As for the jack. Well, I understand that it was obsolete long prior to your using it in your design. And yes, I agree with you that it was the best choice to fit the application.

 

No, I did not check with TBA about this. Mainly because the last time I had looked into just ordering just parts from TBA. The the page was would not update with the request to order parts and would not allow such order to be added to the shopping cart. So, I've just been looking for the parts on my own.

 

But, after spending 7 days looking everywhere I could look. I just happen to stumble upon a seller on eBay selling it. Where the header for this item does specifically states "QTY (100) STACKED 4 PIN MINI DIN UNDER FEMALE S-VIDEO JACKS M704-4020746 HARWIN." And they are, actually, selling it for $29.99+Shipping. And very slightly cheaper if ordering more than 1.

 

 

As I had stated previously, I had already ordered one from this seller. Now, if I am un/Lucky to have received 100. Then I will either post here for others to be able to purchase it from me, while supplies last, at $0.29 each + shipping. Or if TBA wants, I'll sell the remaining to him for his stock. And I'll post a link to the seller's eBay page, provided that no one else does so.

 

Either way, the A8 community wins.

9 hours ago, mytek said:

16 hours ago, The WABBIT said:

Also, I have a question about the programming of the 3 PIC chips. Actually about programming one of them. I don't have an Atari 8-bit system, haven't had one since 1994. So, if I was to build the XEL would it be possible to create a boot disk that would automatically execute the flash program to flash the TK-II PIC. And then boot from said floppy on the XEL to flash that PIC with the Joy-2-PIC?

Or is it not possible because the system will not boot because it can't find a keyboard? Or the Flasher requires keyboard input after it is loaded?

Since the keyboard is responsible for turning the system ON you'd have to bypass that manually by perhaps leaving out the power MOSFET and temporarily jumper across it to power-up the system. Then perhaps a special boot disk could be made that autoruns the PIC Flashing file, via a real floppy drive or SIO2PC. And you would of course need a JOY2PIC connected between joystick #1 and the ICSP PGM header. I've never tried something like this myself, but on the surface it seems like it could work.

Well, I'll once I have completed getting everything and build it. I'll give this a try and see if it works.

 

 

Thanks for your help, and again thanks for the new design.

[Panther]

1 hour ago, The WABBIT said:

 

That is okay, I understand that you, or someone else, would have to do some research to find a suitable alternative, if at all. I do not know enough about certain electrical parts, such as these, to be able to find suitable alternatives for the circuits that you have designed.

 

But, I do hope that someone is able to come up with a suitable alternative. Because, I would like this project to continue for as long as possible.

As for the jack. Well, I understand that it was obsolete long prior to your using it in your design. And yes, I agree with you that it was the best choice to fit the application.

 

No, I did not check with TBA about this. Mainly because the last time I had looked into just ordering just parts from TBA. The the page was would not update with the request to order parts and would not allow such order to be added to the shopping cart. So, I've just been looking for the parts on my own.

 

But, after spending 7 days looking everywhere I could look. I just happen to stumble upon a seller on eBay selling it. Where the header for this item does specifically states "QTY (100) STACKED 4 PIN MINI DIN UNDER FEMALE S-VIDEO JACKS M704-4020746 HARWIN." And they are, actually, selling it for $29.99+Shipping. And very slightly cheaper if ordering more than 1.

 

 

As I had stated previously, I had already ordered one from this seller. Now, if I am un/Lucky to have received 100. Then I will either post here for others to be able to purchase it from me, while supplies last, at $0.29 each + shipping. Or if TBA wants, I'll sell the remaining to him for his stock. And I'll post a link to the seller's eBay page, provided that no one else does so.

 

Either way, the A8 community wins.

Well, I'll once I have completed getting everything and build it. I'll give this a try and see if it works.

 

 

Thanks for your help, and again thanks for the new design.

I just looked at the eBay listing...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112262273137

These do not fit the layout on the 1088 XEL boards.  You should go with the AliExpress version mentioned above.

 

[The WABBIT]

2 hours ago, Panther said:

I just looked at the eBay listing...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112262273137

These do not fit the layout on the 1088 XEL boards.  You should go with the AliExpress version mentioned above.

 

And yet the AliExpress version mentioned is no longer available.

 

Oh well, if the one I ordered isn't the right one. I'll just have to modify it to work. Or not have that part on the Motherboard. I assume the system will still work fine without it.

Edited May 23 by The WABBIT

[Panther]

47 minutes ago, The WABBIT said:

Oh well, if the one I ordered isn't the right one. I'll just have to modify it to work. Or not have that part on the Motherboard. I assume the system will still work fine without it.

I'm comparing the layout of those connectors with the PCB (for some reason I still have one sitting here on my desk) and I don't think much will line up correctly, but hopefully you can make it work.

 

[Panther]

Ah, found these!  Even more per lot that you don't need, but at least they're available.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800878102139.html