1088XEL Atari ITX Motherboard DIY Builders Thread

[+DrVenkman]

Michael - do you have a file to share that includes your awesome graphic from the top of the red case you’ve shown recently? I would love to incorporate that into a top with s cartridge tunnel that I’m going to have made.

 

And thanks to you and MacRorie both for explaining the back panel.

[+mytek]

Michael - do you have a file to share that includes your awesome graphic from the top of the red case you’ve shown recently? I would love to incorporate that into a top with s cartridge tunnel that I’m going to have made.

And thanks to you and MacRorie both for explaining the back panel.

Herb go to my website and download the zip file in the "Custom Mechanical Parts & Panels" section. Inside that you will find a folder for the top panels, and in that folder will be 3 different panels. The one that mentions the CF drive is the latest one that has that graphic, and one of the other ones has the CART. If you open both of those in the Front Panel Designer you can do cut'n'paste of whatever you want, and then rescale and/or rotate when the object is selected. Some stuff has been grouped, so if that's the situation right clicking and then selecting ungroup will break it into it's individual objects which can be independently moved, rescaled, or rotated. If it's a text object, double clicking will bring up a text editor where you can edit content, change font, change size, change angle, ect..

 

Play around with it and you will soon get the feel for how it all works.

 

BTW, objects can be moved in a few different ways. Selecting with the mouse and doing the usual button held while moving with the mouse, and then releasing the button -or- using the arrow keys -or- for precision after the object has been selected, press 'M' and a window opens that allows you to enter coordinates.

 

Have fun

[+Firedawg]

For those who are going to order the top lid panel and rear panel from Front Panel Express be aware that there is no mounting holes for the Status Panel. There are a couple of ways to achieve this that I have seen and I have done. 1) Using a glue gun with all purpose glue. The Pros to doing it this way is that the bond is strong and you can vary the depth of your LEDs to the case while providing a safe distance from the leads making contact with the top lid case. The Cons is that it can get a bit messy with the glue when you try to use too much, and once the glue is applied you have a short period of time after applying the glue to place the Status Panel in position. 2) I have seen in one of MacRorie's pics that he used a plastic standoff with an adhesive pad to anchor down the Status Panel which maybe a great way to go if gluing is not going to work for you. It is your choice. Also, when you are cabling your LEDs to the Status Panel use enough length in your wire to allow you to remove the top lid panel to tinker, and just me you will be tinkering;--) If anyone has devised another way that is better than these two solutions please share.

 

 

 

 

 

[+mytek]

The mounting method for the LED Status Panel was covered in the original 1088XEL project thread, but soon got pushed way down deep by other posts. This is the reason I created a separate website devoted to this stuff, but unfortunately I haven't yet covered this aspect over there. So here is the preferred way to do this (please don't use glue ).

 

Best method I've found, is to first attach the mounts to the board, then peel off the protective film, carefully line up the LEDs with the holes in the top panel, and then press it in place as a complete assembly. The LEDs will sit low and not be sticking out of the top panel, but the effect is quite nice as a result.

 

(please note that this is an earlier prototype LED status panel design being shown in the photo)

 

 

Mouser P/N for the adhesive mount: 854-SA-120X8

 

- Michael

[+Firedawg]

The mounting method for the LED Status Panel was covered in the original 1088XEL project thread, but soon got pushed way down deep by other posts. This is the reason I created a separate website devoted to this stuff, but unfortunately I haven't yet covered this aspect over there. So here is the preferred way to do this (please don't use glue ).

 

Best method I've found, is to first attach the mounts to the board, then peel off the protective film, and carefully line up the LEDs with the holes in the top panel and then press it in place as a complete assembly.

 

The LEDs will sit low and not be sticking out of the top panel, but the effect is quite nice as a result.

 

(please note that this is an earlier prototype LED status panel design shown in the photo)

 

Mouser P/N for the adhesive mount: 854-SA-120X8

 

- Michael

Missed that Michael, but in hindsight I'd probably still go my route of gluing as it does bond well and can be lifted later if necessary, plus the small amount of glue does not steal the eye from the aesthetics of the lid and status panel from the inside. If the plastic standoff could be ordered in black that would work better for me.

 

Note to builders: Michael has raised a good point of what has been accepted for building the 1088XEL, especially with the case. If you have a concern just ask it here Michael or one of the Test Builders will answer your question. Please anything that I share is just what I have done and feel comfortable with.

[+Stephen]

Missed that Michael, but in hindsight I'd probably still go my route of gluing as it does bond well and can be lifted later if necessary, plus the small amount of glue does not steal the eye from the aesthetics of the lid and status panel from the inside. If the plastic standoff could be ordered in black that would work better for me.

 

Note to builders: Michael has raised a good point of what has been accepted for building the 1088XEL, especially with the case. If you have a concern just ask it here Michael or one of the Test Builders will answer your question. Please anything that I share is just what I have done and feel comfortable with.

If you ever need to remove hot glue, I have found that 90+% isopropyl alcohol completely removes the stick from the glue and it will peel away.

[+mytek]

Note to builders: Michael has raised a good point of what has been accepted for building the 1088XEL, especially with the case. If you have a concern just ask it here Michael or one of the Test Builders will answer your question. Please anything that I share is just what I have done and feel comfortable with.

 

It is my hope that the previous builders will take over the job of helping the new builders to get their systems up and going. At times my 'real' job needs to take front and center, so I don't always have time for my Atari related activities. But whenever I can, I'm always willing to jump in and help out. But I certainly do appreciate the willingness of builders to share their journey, such as Firedawg, DrVenkman, Chevymad, FlashJazzCat, and hopefully many more to come.

 

I also have several other projects unrelated to the 1088XEL, but still Atari in nature that I've been itching to get back to. The 1088XEL took up about a year of my Atari time, but I think it was well worth it based on the outcome. What do you guys think?

[flashjazzcat]

Since my longest project has been spread out over seven years, I think getting to this stage with the 1088XEL inside of a year is a remarkable achievement. Although the 1088XEL U1MB firmware is just about "done", in reality there's bound to be more development on the software side in the future and I'm looking forward to supporting whatever add-ons people dream up for this board.

[+Firedawg]

 

It is my hope that the previous builders will take over the job of helping the new builders to get their systems up and going. At times my 'real' job needs to take front and center, so I don't always have time for my Atari related activities. But whenever I can, I'm always willing to jump in and help out. But I certainly do appreciate the willingness of builders to share their journey, such as Firedawg, DrVenkman, Chevymad, FlashJazzCat, and hopefully many more to come.

 

I also have several other projects unrelated to the 1088XEL, but still Atari in nature that I've been itching to get back to. The 1088XEL took up about a year of my Atari time, but I think it was well worth it based on the outcome. What do you guys think?

 

This project of yours goes without say how awesome and spectacular the experience has been watching you develop, test, approve, and release your baby into wild. I have actual moved my Atari 130XE to the backup shelf and now the 1088XEL is the sole Atari I have been using now. Just a joy to use, and once I have complete knowledge of the software side and I figure some of the file moves from and to CF, Cart, SIO2PC, and SIO I'll have it licked. Thanks again Michael!!!

 

On another point of recognition I know that Stephen made a comment that he had a donation coming to Jon (flashjazzcat) I would like to add that I will be doing the same here shortly. I have so many devices that utilize flashjazzcat's software that done of these things would work if it were not for him. flashjazzcat does not solicit donations ever on this site or any other place for that matter, so I'll do it for him here. If you have some spare change let flashjazzcat know he is very appreciated for his commitment to this hobby of ours by sending him some love his way via his website and donation button. I know I have asked Michael to throw a donations button his site for the same reason, but will have to see. Maybe if Michael burns up enough U1MB boards maybe he will .

[+mytek]

Glad to hear you are loving your new 1088XEL . And just like you, mine has pushed all my other systems back into storage, which was always the goal in the first place. After I had done several upgrades on a XEGS, it quickly dawned on me how cool it would be to create a board that could bring all of this together in a nice neat and small package. Hence the 1088XEL was born.

 

Yeah Jon certainly deserves a lot people's donations for all the time and work he puts into many of the goodies that we all use and enjoy. so please do go to his site and donate.

 

I doubt if I'll ever put a donation button on my site, but if anyone wishes to gift me a U1MB I certainly wouldn't object, and it would be greatly appreciated since I am now down to one working board .

 

 

This project of yours goes without say how awesome and spectacular the experience has been watching you develop, test, approve, and release your baby into wild. I have actual moved my Atari 130XE to the backup shelf and now the 1088XEL is the sole Atari I have been using now. Just a joy to use, and once I have complete knowledge of the software side and I figure some of the file moves from and to CF, Cart, SIO2PC, and SIO I'll have it licked. Thanks again Michael!!!

 

On another point of recognition I know that Stephen made a comment that he had a donation coming to Jon (flashjazzcat) I would like to add that I will be doing the same here shortly. I have so many devices that utilize flashjazzcat's software that done of these things would work if it were not for him. flashjazzcat does not solicit donations ever on this site or any other place for that matter, so I'll do it for him here. If you have some spare change let flashjazzcat know he is very appreciated for his commitment to this hobby of ours by sending him some love his way via his website and donation button. I know I have asked Michael to throw a donations button his site for the same reason, but will have to see. Maybe if Michael burns up enough U1MB boards maybe he will .

[chevymad]

Could there be a drive number conflict perhaps? Gotta look closely at the nuxx to see if thats setable. Sound seems to work fine but havent tried stereo. Will try the sparkfun tonight.

[+DrVenkman]

I'm having too much fun with Front Panel Designer now that I've figured out how to select and group/ungroup objects.

​What do you guys think about this these panel designs?

 

 

 

(Yes, I wanna future-proof myself if I put a SOPHIA into it later this year).

[+Firedawg]

I'm having too much fun with Front Panel Designer now that I've figured out how to select and group/ungroup objects.

​What do you guys think about this these panel designs?

 

(Yes, I wanna future-proof myself if I put a SOPHIA into it later this year).

 

Very good DrV, but with your final design make sure you give considerations to the wiring and cabling. It will be quite busy at the front edge of you top lid with the LEDs and ribbon cable from the CF drive. But hey, its your designed fella!!! You do it like you want to. The "Built by DrVenkman" is a keeper.

[+DrVenkman]

 

Very good DrV, but with your final design make sure you give considerations to the wiring and cabling. It will be quite busy at the front edge of you top lid with the LEDs and ribbon cable from the CF drive. But hey, its your designed fella!!! You do it like you want to. The "Built by DrVenkman" is a keeper.

 

I hadn't considered the cabling, but the most recent videos Michael has posted show his with a very similar top panel, albeit without the cart slot but with a dual-CF card mounted up front. I guess I can print out the design and tape it to some cardboard to make sure it will be possible to close things up properly. Fortunately, I'll be building the status panel board and mouse select board before I order my case panels.

[+mytek]

I'm having too much fun with Front Panel Designer now that I've figured out how to select and group/ungroup objects.

​What do you guys think about this these panel designs?

 

Nice .

 

I also like the Built by DrVenkman. Please feel free to remove the Mytek Controls logo and replace with something of your own like the graphic I put in this file (open with the FPD app). You'll have to play around with the scaling and the tool size.

 

ghostbusters.fpd.zip

 

 

Very good DrV, but with your final design make sure you give considerations to the wiring and cabling. It will be quite busy at the front edge of you top lid with the LEDs and ribbon cable from the CF drive. But hey, its your designed fella!!! You do it like you want to. The "Built by DrVenkman" is a keeper.

 

Herb obviously based this on my last panel design I had made with the Dual CF slot off to the right. Although it's a little snug, everything does fit. The only thing that can be a bit of a problem is the proximity of the CF to the LED status panel which required one of the adhesive mounts to be trimmed pretty short.

[chevymad]

My machine can see no drives. Wasn't familiar enough with spartados to realize it until I got my u1mb 800xl working again. Then I see the prompts are different. Tried the sparkfun, and it doesn't see it either. Also tried both U1mb's in my 800xl and both work fine and can see/use the sdrive nuxx. All the chips that were in the 1088 are now in the 800xl and it works. So now I guess I start in with an ohm meter. One other thing, can a u1mb be flashed to 1088 specs while in an 800xl?

 

Oh and my win tablet can apparently see the spark fun and make connection. Drivers installed themselves and things looked to start up ok on the tablet.

Edited February 2, 2018 by chevymad

[+MacRorie]

One other thing, can a u1mb be flashed to 1088 specs while in an 800xl?

 

 

 

FJC & Michael would be the experts on this, but logic dictates that it could. The flash program would simply load up and control the burn. It's like this: You could flash just about anything to the U1M the flash program doesn't much care so long as it is the proper size. In fact, I do not think the UFLASH even checks the file. It just looks for a file to load, the default being *.ROM

 

The caveat being, I have no idea what it would do when it boots after that. Theoretically speaking, it should function "fairly" normally, but might get wonky if it looked for the CF.

[john_q_atari]

Question for everyone here that has already built or started building their 1088XEL. Do you think I should go with a single CF adapter or the dual CF adapter? It seems from the pictures most people have the single and Michael has the dual. Not sure if having 2 makes the cards harder to insert, or is more experimental than single CF, or something else I hadn't thought of. Any thoughts? I am working on getting everything together for the build, and single verses dual would affect the paneling and what XEL-CF options I ordered from MacRorie, so I wanted to get it right the first time so to speak. Also this will be my first ever atari computer. I grew up on the Commodore 64 and the Atari 2600, so getting ready to build the 1088 has been pretty exciting.

 

Thanks.

[flashjazzcat]

It's like this: You could flash just about anything to the U1M the flash program doesn't much care so long as it is the proper size. In fact, I do not think the UFLASH even checks the file. It just looks for a file to load, the default being *.ROM

No. If things worked this way, people would be bricking their boards every five minutes. UFLASH won't allow you to flash anything but the correct firmware files to the firmware slots (Firmware, Main BIOS, Loader, PBI BIOS, and BIOS plugin). It does this by enforcing a file signature system, and the same scheme allows the program to tell when an upgrade from the original firmware to the new firmware is taking place (if the incoming signature matches the detected platform, but belongs to the "alt" version). This is all exponentially complicated not only by the necessity of maintaining two completely different metadata/signature schemes (for the old and new BIOS), but by the fact that the actual hardware detection is based on the firmware, since there's no other way to differentiate between Incognito and U1MB. This is the main reason I eventually gave up on supporting the very early BIOS revisions which lacked SIDE Hardware support, etc. Given sufficient code space it would be reasonable enough to check every possible revision and have a different slot list for each (the oldest revisions only had about half a dozen slots), but since UFLASH is only 23KB long and has a built-in GUI, there's a limit to how much can be done. I always figured it would be a bit kludgy to have to ask the user "Is this U1MB or Incognito?" too, although the option exists to override the detection algorithm.

 

Most other slots can be flashed with anything you like, since their content is not critical to the machine actually booting. An exception is the SDX slot, since SDX is a critical component (you need it for flash maintenance, at least). Strictly speaking, flashing garbage to the loader and PBI BIOS slots wouldn't prevent the machine from powering on, but signature enforcement helps ensure people don't get themeselves into knots.

 

The caveat being, I have no idea what it would do when it boots after that. Theoretically speaking, it should function "fairly" normally, but might get wonky if it looked for the CF.

The 1088XEL BIOS should not have any adverse effects on a stock A8, and it'll certainly boot. You're right about the XEL-CF probing, but it would be no worse than on a 1088XEL board when the XEL-CF is not present or devoid of media. Disabling the HDD avoids polling timeouts entirely. Also, the three second cold power-up delay in the 1088XEL BIOS is completely redundant on a stock A8.

 

Do you think I should go with a single CF adapter or the dual CF adapter? It seems from the pictures most people have the single and Michael has the dual. Not sure if having 2 makes the cards harder to insert, or is more experimental than single CF, or something else I hadn't thought of. Any thoughts?

There aren't that many real advantages to using dual cards, aside from the ability to make rather rapid cloned backups of partitions from one card to the other using HDSC or a recursive copier (which is probably worth doing, unless you routinely back up your cards on the PC). Nevertheless, adding support for two cards in the PBI BIOS and - particularly - the XEX loader added about two months onto the firmware update cycle, so I'd be delighted to see people take advantage of it. As for dual card support being experimental: well, it's certainly a new feature but it's been out in the wild among the beta testers for a few months now and I have not received any catastrophic bug reports, and what has been reported has been fixed. In any case, the XEX loader supports up to fourteen FAT partitions and you can use cards as big as you like, so if you opt for a single card adapter, I doubt you'll end up having regrets.

Edited February 2, 2018 by flashjazzcat

[+MacRorie]

No. If things worked this way, people would be bricking their boards every five minutes. UFLASH won't allow you to flash anything but the correct firmware files to the firmware slots (Firmware, Main BIOS, Loader, PBI BIOS, and BIOS plugin). It does this by enforcing a file signature system, and the same scheme allows the program to tell when an upgrade from the original firmware to the new firmware is taking place (if the incoming signature matches the detected platform, but belongs to the "alt" version). This is all exponentially complicated not only by the necessity of maintaining two completely different metadata/signature schemes (for the old and new BIOS), but by the fact that the actual hardware detection is based on the firmware, since there's no other way to differentiate between Incognito and U1MB. This is the main reason I eventually gave up on supporting the very early BIOS revisions which lacked SIDE Hardware support, etc. Given sufficient code space it would be reasonable enough to check every possible revision and have a different slot list for each (the oldest revisions only had about half a dozen slots), but since UFLASH is only 23KB long and has a built-in GUI, there's a limit to how much can be done. I always figured it would be a bit kludgy to have to ask the user "Is this U1MB or Incognito?" too, although the option exists to override the detection algorithm.

 

Most other slots can be flashed with anything you like, since their content is not critical to the machine actually booting. An exception is the SDX slot, since SDX is a critical component (you need it for flash maintenance, at least). Strictly speaking, flashing garbage to the loader and PBI BIOS slots wouldn't prevent the machine from powering on, but signature enforcement helps ensure people don't get themeselves into knots.

 

 

Awesome! I did not know the ROMs were signed. That REALLY puts my mind even more at ease when I am upgrading. FJC, you really do some amazing work. I am really looking to playing around with the GOS!

[flashjazzcat]

You flatter me - thanks.

 

I am really looking to playing around with the GOS!

Me too. I think nearly three years preoccupied with firmware is just about long enough.

 

EDIT: D'Oh... I should have added that you wouldn't want to flash all four OS slots with junk as well, since that's another bricking scenario.

Edited February 2, 2018 by flashjazzcat

[+DrVenkman]

My machine can see no drives. Wasn't familiar enough with spartados to realize it until I got my u1mb 800xl working again. Then I see the prompts are different. Tried the sparkfun, and it doesn't see it either. Also tried both U1mb's in my 800xl and both work fine and can see/use the sdrive nuxx. All the chips that were in the 1088 are now in the 800xl and it works. So now I guess I start in with an ohm meter. One other thing, can a u1mb be flashed to 1088 specs while in an 800xl?

 

Oh and my win tablet can apparently see the spark fun and make connection. Drivers installed themselves and things looked to start up ok on the tablet.

Check continuity from the SIO connection points all through to the appropriate PIA and (left?) POKEY pins. Check resistances on the resistor networks to make sure (for instance) RN2 isn’t backwards, etc. If you don’t have the schematics to work from, they’re on Michael’s Ataribits site.

 

One other thing: do you have a jumper set at J4? And is that damnable switch on the Sparkfun board set to the right?

[flashjazzcat]

On another point of recognition I know that Stephen made a comment that he had a donation coming to Jon (flashjazzcat) I would like to add that I will be doing the same here shortly.

Sincerest thanks!

 

PS: Little treat in the works for Rapidus owners:

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by flashjazzcat

[chevymad]

Check continuity from the SIO connection points all through to the appropriate PIA and (left?) POKEY pins. Check resistances on the resistor networks to make sure (for instance) RN2 isn’t backwards, etc. If you don’t have the schematics to work from, they’re on Michael’s Ataribits site.

 

One other thing: do you have a jumper set at J4? And is that damnable switch on the Sparkfun board set to the right?

Jumper set to DSR and fixed my switch position when you figured that out.

[chevymad]

I think you figured out my issue Dr V. I read earlier that the rn networks would work either way, not thinking about the single row rn's. I bet at least rn2 is backwards.