Opry99er Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 ...I like to call, "Mitsumi or no-Mitsumi" Since there are usually questions about this, I thought we'd give it a thread with some keycap examples. Here's how the game is played.... Someone posts a picture of a keyboard, and then people get to debate whether it is Mitsumi or no-Mitsumi. I'll start it off with a couple little fellas I found on eBay today. Have fun. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhodes Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Just a wild stab in the dark, but i would say not-Mitsumi for the first unit, Mitsumi for the second unit? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4200466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoodland Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Subject #1: Subject #2: Subject #3: Subject 1&2 = ALPS: Subject 3 = Stackpole: Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4201000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 Nice!! In my first post, the first picture was a Mitsumi, and the second was a stackpole. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4201002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckoBrand Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 That's cool. What is a Mitsumi? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4201220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 One of the manufacturers of TI keyboards. They were produced with a board membrane instead of mechanical contacts. Mitsumi keyboards are considered inferior by most due to their flaky nature and lack of longevity. Don't worry.... yours is a stackpole. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4201235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoodland Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 This is a Mitsumi: 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4201260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwkwardPotato Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) If it's not considered cheating, here's a way you can determine the manufacturer of a keyboard when buying a TI (especially if you can't look through the bottom vents): Take a close look at the 3 key. If the numeral 3 has a *rounded* top, you have an Alps keyboard. If the numeral 3 has a *flat* top, continue reading. If the keycaps have very square-looking edges as opposed to rounded ones, or have very small legends (like the late VIC-20 and breadbin C64) you have a Mitsumi keyboard. If the keycaps have rounded edges, continue reading. There are four remaining manufacturers for TI keyboards other than Alps and Mitsumi. These are Stackpole, Hi-Tek, Futaba, and another manufacturer that nobody has ever identified AFAIK. The Stackpoles and Hi-Tek's are virtually identical and found in the majority of TI-99's. The Futabas, on the other hand, are much rarer. The unidentified keyboard is very difficult to come upon in my experience and I've only ever had two examples (one of which I gave away). Unfortunately it's pretty difficult to tell these apart from keycap appearance. The Futabas tend to have thinner legends than the other two along with ever-so-slightly squarer keycaps, although it's somewhat hard to tell unless you can compare them side by side. The remaining three manufacturers seem to use the exact same keycaps otherwise, with the exception of a different stem for the unidentified manufacturer. For the record, here's a rough approximation of rarity based off of eBay listings I've seen for consoles/personal experience (with 1 being most common): 1. Hi-Tek/Stackpole 2. Alps 3. Mitsumi 4. Futaba 5. Unidentified Manufacturer As has been repeated several times on this forum, avoid the Mitsumis at all costs due to reliability issues. If you want to go by keyboard *feel* however, I'd also recommend staying away from Futabas and the unidentified manufacturer (the latter feels absolutely wretched IMO, at least 10x worse than the Mitsumi), although these are rare enough that you're much more likely to get a Hi-Tek/Stackpole. The Hi-Tek/Stackpole is what most people have and it's pretty nice. Personally, I prefer the Alps variant. Edited January 20, 2019 by AwkwardPotato 6 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4201332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 The funny thing about the Mitsumi keyboards is that everyone wanted them BITD because they were generally super-reliable. The problems with them only became evident with the passage of time, as the membranes oxidized and reliability tanked. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4202168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoodland Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) If it's not considered cheating, here's a way you can determine the manufacturer of a keyboard when buying a TI (especially if you can't look through the bottom vents): Take a close look at the 3 key. If the numeral 3 has a *rounded* top, you have an Alps keyboard. If the numeral 3 has a *flat* top, continue reading. If the keycaps have very square-looking edges as opposed to rounded ones, or have very small legends (like the late VIC-20 and breadbin C64) you have a Mitsumi keyboard. If the keycaps have rounded edges, continue reading. There are four remaining manufacturers for TI keyboards other than Alps and Mitsumi. These are Stackpole, Hi-Tek, Futaba, and another manufacturer that nobody has ever identified AFAIK. The Stackpoles and Hi-Tek's are virtually identical and found in the majority of TI-99's. The Futabas, on the other hand, are much rarer. The unidentified keyboard is very difficult to come upon in my experience and I've only ever had two examples (one of which I gave away). Unfortunately it's pretty difficult to tell these apart from keycap appearance. The Futabas tend to have thinner legends than the other two along with ever-so-slightly squarer keycaps, although it's somewhat hard to tell unless you can compare them side by side. The remaining three manufacturers seem to use the exact same keycaps otherwise, with the exception of a different stem for the unidentified manufacturer. For the record, here's a rough approximation of rarity based off of eBay listings I've seen for consoles/personal experience (with 1 being most common): 1. Hi-Tek/Stackpole 2. Alps 3. Mitsumi 4. Futaba 5. Unidentified Manufacturer As has been repeated several times on this forum, avoid the Mitsumis at all costs due to reliability issues. If you want to go by keyboard *feel* however, I'd also recommend staying away from Futabas and the unidentified manufacturer (the latter feels absolutely wretched IMO, at least 10x worse than the Mitsumi), although these are rare enough that you're much more likely to get a Hi-Tek/Stackpole. The Hi-Tek/Stackpole is what most people have and it's pretty nice. Personally, I prefer the Alps variant. Check this ebay listing out. It shows a rounded number three key printed on a square-looking edge keycap! Then in another pic of the bottom of the same console, you can see the brown PCB and partial sticker indicating a Mitsumi keyboard. This throws a wrench in the mix! I guess there will always be exceptions. Edited February 15, 2019 by twoodland 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4220113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoodland Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Check this ebay listing out. It shows a rounded number three key printed on a square-looking edge keycap! Then in another pic of the bottom of the same console, you can see the brown PCB and partial sticker indicating a Mitsumi keyboard. This throws a wrench in the mix! I guess there will always be exceptions. Here are pics for ref: 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4220278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwkwardPotato Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Check this ebay listing out. It shows a rounded number three key printed on a square-looking edge keycap! Thanks for posting this! The font on those keycaps is especially weird, kinda like the one used on the Commodore machines of the same time period. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4220972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 The black Mitsumi keyboards are actually pretty hard to find--but as noted, the font is so wildly different that they are very easy to identify once you know what to look for. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4222058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmazzy Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Although I've gathered bits and pieces in other posts re: the different TI keyboards, I'm grateful for this thread. Very informative. Thank you all for sharing. I picked up this Futaba keyboard on eBay about 6 weeks ago. Looks like it's never been used. I tried it it out in my 2nd console, but I think I may have damaged the ribbon cable because, after re-seating it, a few of the keys stopped registering. (I've ordered a replacement ribbon cable.) 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4232975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhodes Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 This picture is of the unit i just purchased from ebay. Looking between the key caps, i see white. Any ideas what type this one could be? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4404985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 8 hours ago, jrhodes said: Any ideas what type this one could be? Reflection? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4405148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Dunno, but if it bothers you, some narrow strips of black electrical tape between the keys or maybe a sharpie might help (after removing the keys of course). Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4405165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+arcadeshopper Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 white between the keys makes me think membrane.. what's the bottom look like? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4405186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhodes Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Not sure. Listing only had pictures from above. Are you going to be doing another run Jedimatt42's TI-USB-99 Keys anytime soon? May have to consider one if its a membrane keyboard. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4405193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+arcadeshopper Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 9 hours ago, jrhodes said: Not sure. Listing only had pictures from above. Are you going to be doing another run Jedimatt42's TI-USB-99 Keys anytime soon? May have to consider one if its a membrane keyboard. I have stock 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4405527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhodes Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Will definitely keep you in mind. Unit should be here Wed/Thur next week. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4405561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-TI Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 1 hour ago, arcadeshopper said: I have stock Good! I'm going to get me one of these when the F18A Mk2 comes out. Hopefully that new power supply board is available then, because I want all three installed at the same time. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4405566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 47 minutes ago, --- Ω --- said: Good! I'm going to get me one of these when the F18A Mk2 comes out. Hopefully that new power supply board is available then, because I want all three installed at the same time. Understandably. Our little machine is many things, but it isn't the easiest in the world to open up. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4405590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opry99er Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 I think that white is reflection, as Asmusr suggested. I've had dozens of TIs and don't remember a white plate under the keys on any of them. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4406162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I think there is a white plate under some of the ALPS keyboards. . . Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/287234-lets-play-a-little-game/#findComment-4409026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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