Unicorns season: Prince of Persia for the A8!

[nowy80]

For my copy I used an Atari MAX cartridge. I do not sell cartridges based on this solution. Sometimes I prepare cartridges with flash memory in the cradle to be programmed by the owner of the cartridge. These are available with graphics, instructions, a poster and a box. 

[rensoup]

10 hours ago, nowy80 said:

For my copy I used an Atari MAX cartridge. I do not sell cartridges based on this solution. Sometimes I prepare cartridges with flash memory in the cradle to be programmed by the owner of the cartridge. These are available with graphics, instructions, a poster and a box. 

Sorry but this is just a quick attempt at making cash out of something you have nothing to do with. Hopefully the mods will clean this up.

Edited November 13, 2022 by rensoup

[EnderDude]

20 hours ago, rensoup said:

Sorry but this is just a quick attempt at making cash out of something you have nothing to do with. Hopefully the mods will clean this up.

This is just a weird question, but do fan-made ports from scratch fall under copyright? If so, who would own the copyright: the makers of the port, the makers of the original game, or a mix of both?

[Beeblebrox]

@EnderDudeThis may well have been discussed in this thread already but the way I took it is this. (Correct me if I am wrong people ).

 

The A8 port of this game is ok to be freely downloaded, flashed to individual's personal carts, SD/SIO devices, multicarts, etc and fans can make there own covers, boxsets, etc for themselves. AFAIK no copyright is owned by Resoup for coding this A8 port. The original copywright is still held by the owner of the Prince of Persia franchise as it were. (Ubisoft?!) I believe the original creator of the game - Jordan Mechner - still owns some element of copywright as well?

 

As a general rule as such it is understood that no one can sell copies of the A8 port of the game for their own profit. I do not believe Resoup or any others involved have made any money in porting this game to the A8. 

 

So as far as I can understand making boxsets up with the artwork for sale - even if the cart is blank and the end buyer flashes it themselves - constitutes making money off this port.

 

If the artwork is freely available at no cost in the public domain and people download, print and make their own boxsets and then flash a cart with it - that I believe is fine. It is for their own personal use and no money is being made.

 

That is my take on it.

 

So as a general rule I think the makers of the ports of games don't actually own any copyright. It's more of a courtesy thang that others don't sell on their work and make a profit off it. 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Beeblebrox

[rensoup]

2 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

@EnderDudeThis may well have been discussed in this thread already but the way I took it is this. (Correct me if I am wrong people ).

Sounds fair... Not sure anyone has the definitive answer on this particular game, perhaps not even JM, I guess he'd have to consult with lawyers since he sold the IP.

 

I guess for most games it's a grey area, and left the port author's appreciation, because the amounts are so low and the companies holding the IPs, if still around, aren't going to share any of the new profit they make with the original authors anyway.

 

3 hours ago, EnderDude said:

This is just a weird question, but do fan-made ports from scratch fall under copyright? If so, who would own the copyright: the makers of the port, the makers of the original game, or a mix of both?

If made from scratch, I guess they'd start by suing you arguing that it is their IP, then an agreement could be found, so potentially a mix ?

 

 

I just wish the mods would take down that post, I don't think cutting out a square in a piece of foam and flashing a cart is worth paying whatever money that guy is asking 🙄

[oky2000]

Porting a game without a license is illegal technically. Whether you give it away free or sell it makes no difference.

 

Somebody did a Smurf game and it would have been fine until he let a few people have a copy. The Peyo lawyers got involved and he got fined. 

 

It all comes down to the attitude of the copyright holder really, it's always illegal even if nobody is given a copy but if nobody is given a copy and the copyright holder can't get access to your game technically there is nothing they can do about it. If I wrote Nemesis/Gradius and just posted a video on youtube nobody would be able to prove it isn't a sophisticated fake unless a disk image is released to somebody else

[+slx]

For lack of knowledge I won‘t try to argue copyright issues but I‘d generally consider it fair for someone wanting to provide any „homemade“ software in physical form (including accessories such as boxes) to ask the author (or person having done the port) for their permission. 
 

@ndary does boxed carts of ports as well but him being a respected member of the community I‘d assume him having discussed this with the authors. 

[nowy80]

1 hour ago, slx said:

I sell empty cartridges with a box and graphics for backing up games from the 80s. I do not sell any software. There were questions about how much such copies are worth. I think as much as potential buyers are willing to pay for them. I have another question, if I make a USB flash drive, I'll put the title of the game from 40 years ago. I'm selling this empty USB stick. I don't even know who to ask for copyright permission. I see that this forum has mixed opinions on this topic. Do you think I can do it or not? By analogy, if companies sell a printer cartridge, e.g. Canon, Epson or HP, and it is a new product that does not violate patent rights and the packaging has the HP or Canon name (indicatively, for which printer it is intended). Is it legal in your opinion or not?  These are just a few questions. I'm sure opinions will vary greatly. Please, just don't write to delete this or that post. It does not serve to clarify any question. Greetings to all, regardless of opinions

 

[Ricky Spanish]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

[Mclaneinc]

Are these carts actually blank or just being sold as blank but also have the matching game on?

 

One is fine, one is most certainly not unless permission have been given..

[oky2000]

There is no such thing, legally, as abandonware, it is a myth created by the emulation community. Whether you write your own Asteroids clone from scratch or an emulator to run the arcade ROM data it's all illegal. It is actually your responsibility to confirm you have permission not assume something is actually 'abandoned'. 

 

I'm not going to click on wankypedia links, I know the law. Unless the game you are porting has officially had all copyright removed or placed in the public domain then you need their blessing. The simple fact is 99.99% of the time the I.P./copyright holder doesn't care and you can assume some crusty old game from 3-4 decades ago is ripe for porting. It is extremely rare for companies to go after such things on retro hardware but Super Mario Bros C64 and that Smurf game by the guy who does Amiga longplay videos are exceptions to the case. It is their choice as the copyright holder, they have no obligation to do anything at all to allow them to enforce their copyrights at any time.

 

The only exception is if you write a copy for yourself and it is never distributed to anybody else, then you could class it as some sort of fair use type situation and claim it is just a useful development exercise and once completed you deleted it (how would they know). That is a grey area but no company would waste lawyering up on such dubious evidence devoid cases. Once anything is released, even for free, it is an illegal port, no different to Commodore getting sued by Atari for Jelly Monsters on the VIC-20 in 1983 etc. Whether the I.P. holder cares or not is another matter, still illegal unless they specifically say it's copyright free or public domain like Llamasoft have done.

 

[zbyti]

[rensoup]

On 11/13/2022 at 1:56 PM, nowy80 said:

For my copy I used an Atari MAX cartridge. I do not sell cartridges based on this solution. Sometimes I prepare cartridges with flash memory in the cradle to be programmed by the owner of the cartridge. These are available with graphics, instructions, a poster and a box. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165765634421?hash=item269866d975:g:TlUAAOSwNKxjaUny&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4FHrSTW%2F8BY4nChA58Mwya7z8zOG7GO0%2FBKap28jS1n1AUAaXek4NoC1o%2BmyGkHKornmAwTxQZXPsoilZlHM4cp1UU%2Fny53SSnTzIqutH2pv4voh7xGs8Hy83Gqi0QL8WVVDGqtTXqkcIb0nmR4TaiSITJXKD8cgMN99QJSajUyQnF6E85wY2WciQoMnliHyh9O3tWOCTQmHnpF%2FMT%2BYMGvIc02xNuOB4Z5KRt4IEiU4q6W%2BLKdav2lrll0aHK95p9QcvJ3GcFHfXRXpJplfBoQycGfEEagAsq8Ku2RAhD30|tkp%3ABk9SR5i2r9mPYQ

 

 

Backup - blank media for Commodore 64, C64, cartridge (cart for Bruce Lee)

ApproximatelyUS $65.54

 

You're involvement in those projects is 0.

 

Asshole.

[nowy80]

6 hours ago, rensoup said:

 

 

You're involvement in those projects is 0.

 

Asshole.

Sorry but I don't agree with You. My contribution to the preparation of the empty cartridge is quite large. I don't think you're taking into account the purpose of this auction. What is sold on it. I do not sell software, everything is described in the auction. Regards 

[Rybags]

Bunch of crap.  I've got a flashcart for C64 as well as both sizes of Atarimax.

Not a single one cost anything near 65 US Dollars.

 

And yep, Abandonware is just a phrase with no legal basis.  Someone who sells copies of 40 year old software they have no ownership rights to is breaking the law just as much as someone selling copies of new software they have no rights to.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Rybags

[Beeblebrox]

@nowy80For the PoP game it is true you are not selling the game preflashed to the cart.

 

However I think the issue here is that the original coders of the game have not made any money out of this and have expressly stated no one else has permission to either. The amount being charged for the Atarimax 1Mbit maxflash cart (with printed label artwork which I believe was designed by Resoup in the first place afaik), a generic "used" VHS plastic case and foam insert, paper instructions, etc is very high. I know you might justify this in providing a service for those who can't make this up themselves, but it is still making money from the free "modern" port of this game however you look at it.

 

I think that more to the point you have not had permssion to use the cart label artwork you see here below and again however you look at it you are making money selling it when no one should be in the first place. Espcially when the Prince of Persia franchise is still going.

 

This is a modern free to download A8 port with afaik cart artwork specifically designed for it as well. On AA you can download cover and artwork yourself to make your own copies for personal use and not for resale.

 

I've noticed your Ebay listing for the Bruce Lee cart backup media (Backup - blank media for Commodore 64, C64, cartridge (cart for Bruce Lee)) states:

 

"At the buyer's special request, I can record an image of the game. A prerequisite is a written confirmation that you are the owner of the game. You are requesting a backup of a game that was released more than 30 years ago."

 

Presumably for the PoP package you state the same terms?  If so again this doesn't apply to a modern port of PoP.

 

My advice is cease selling the PoP package.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Beeblebrox

[zbyti]

no one force anyone to buy it.

if I ask someone to make me physical copy of this game based on free materials (because I don't have time, proper equipment and so one to do it) then that someone should refuse me (even though he has what it takes to do it) because he would have to do it for me for free.

 

this way I won't have a nice release of something that no one publishes because I can't do it myself and no one will do it for me for free.

[nowy80]

6 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

@nowy80

 

My advice is cease selling the PoP package.

 

 

I have never had an empty cartridge for sale for PoP. So I can't stop doing something I've never done. I've written about it several times. The photo of the cartridge you posted belongs to me. Please note that while offering empty cartridges, I also post videos on how to make such a cartridge yourself. For people who have time and skills, they can prepare such a product on their own. For other people who want, I am happy to prepare such empty cartridges. Regards

[TheRaven81]

4 hours ago, nowy80 said:

For other people who want, I am happy to prepare such empty cartridges. Regards

 

You can't do that though because that would mean you are also - even if it's only an option - selling the software, which you have no rights to do so. Even if your claim is "their purchase is for an empty cartridge", if a buyer takes you up on the offer of putting the software on the cart for them, then an empty cartridge is not what they are receiving. They are receiving a cart with the software on it, which is not allowed to be sold. 

 

(image edited for emphasis.)

Edited November 16, 2022 by TheRaven81

[rensoup]

17 hours ago, nowy80 said:

Sorry but I don't agree with You. My contribution to the preparation of the empty cartridge is quite large. I don't think you're taking into account the purpose of this auction. What is sold on it. I do not sell software, everything is described in the auction. Regards 

 

Fuck off.

 

You're an insult to the concept of work.

 

[rensoup]

12 hours ago, zbyti said:

if I ask someone to make me physical copy of this game based on free materials (because I don't have time, proper equipment and so one to do it) then that someone should refuse me (even though he has what it takes to do it) because he would have to do it for me for free.

 

 

If you can't print yourself a label at a print shop nor flash a cart, this hobby's not for you. 

 

 

Spending a lot of time on this project and dealing with the crap that ensued is one thing but having that turd come here and sell it in this thread and telling me with a straight face he's an honest worker and has every right is a bit too much.
 

 

[zbyti]

22 minutes ago, rensoup said:

If you can't print yourself a label at a print shop nor flash a cart, this hobby's not for you. 

You are right  I use only emulators and pdf to please my eyes, I forgot the smell of the fresh copy of any game

[+DrVenkman]

On 11/15/2022 at 4:01 PM, oky2000 said:

Whether you write your own Asteroids clone from scratch or an emulator to run the arcade ROM data it's all illegal.

This is actually not true in every jurisdiction, and unless you're a lawyer licensed and qualified to practice IP law in every state, province and nation in the world, you run the risk of either malpractice or barratry to give blanket legal advice like this. And yes, I am an attorney and NO, I am not giving legal advice to anyone on an internet forum who may reside anywhere in the world. 

[rmzalbar]

On 11/15/2022 at 2:01 PM, oky2000 said:

an emulator to run the arcade ROM data it's all illegal.

An emulator is illegal? A program that mimics the behavior of hardware without copying its design? Whaaat?

[+x=usr(1536)]

16 minutes ago, rmzalbar said:

An emulator is illegal? A program that mimics the behavior of hardware without copying its design? Whaaat?

Disregard what he's saying; it's wrong, and @DrVenkman made the wider point better than I would:

3 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

This is actually not true in every jurisdiction, and unless you're a lawyer licensed and qualified to practice IP law in every state, province and nation in the world, you run the risk of either malpractice or barratry to give blanket legal advice like this. And yes, I am an attorney and NO, I am not giving legal advice to anyone on an internet forum who may reside anywhere in the world.